Law Of Restitution

[inquiringmind]

Something happened Friday that bothers me

Dad is handicapped and uses a power chair.

While I was maneuvering the power chair to try and get him safely on the wheel chair ramp, I scratched the passenger side door of the car next to us, and got into an argument with the two women who were sitting in that car.

They insisted on exchanging insurance info, and I told them we could do that if they moved the car long enough for me to get dad in the van, but they refused.

I backed up the van, got dad in, and then I just left while they were calling the police.

I had over a hundred dollars in cash in my pocket, and if I hadn't been angry, I might have offered them some money, but they wanted to argue, and I wasn't feeling well, and I just drove away and left them there.

When we got back to the house I called Christiana Mall security, and I spoke to someone who seemed familiar with what happened, but he wasn't much help.

I got the impression he spoke to them, and didn't like them very much.

He said they were gonna report it to the state police, and their insurance co would probably call my insurance co, but it was no big deal and nothing to worry about.

As neither car was moving when this happened, I really don't see how this can be covered by auto insurance, and what bothers me is that i did scratch their car, and my attitude probably wasn't right.

I can't find our insurance info now, and I wont be able to call our insurance company (to find out if they know anything about this, or can furnish me with any kind of contact information) until I go to their local office Monday, but what happens if I can't contact these people and make some kind of restitution?

What if they didn't fill out some report with the State police, and there's no way I can contact them?

Can I still be forgiven for whatever sin there was on my part?

What is the law of restitution, and how does it work?

Must I find someway of locating these people and paying them for the scratch on their car before I can expect to be forgiven by God?

Edited April 20, 2013 by inquiringmind

[Wanderer7]

I can't tell you exactly what to do, but it sounds like maybe you could use this:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/04/broken-things-to-mend?lang=eng

Your Bishop could probably give you advice if you need specifics, but I'm sure you can figure it out with a little prayer.

[mercyngrace]

Must I find someway of locating these people and paying them for the scratch on their car before I can expect to be forgiven by God?

I would try to make restitution for three reasons:

1 - It's just the right thing to do

2 - It will ease your mind and conscience and help you forgive them for their impatience and lack of empathy

3 - It will help them ultimately forgive you, which they will have to do if they are to progress

If you are unable to locate them after a good faith effort and no consequences follow, I would recommend you repent in your heart for attitude (even though frustration and exhaustion are a natural part of life) and take comfort in the fact that at some point the law of restitution will be suspended*.

If you try to make restitution and are unable, you are kind of like the poor person described by King Benjamin in the Book of Mosiah. The poor can't give to the beggar because he doesn't have it to give, but he can say in his heart, 'If I had to give, I would'. You, too, can be pure in your heart, even if restitution isn't possible by having your heart softened toward those women and being willing to do all you can to make restitution.

*When your desire is firm and you are willing to pay the “uttermost farthing,” the law of restitution is suspended. Your obligation is transferred to the Lord. He will settle your accounts.

I repeat, save for the exception of the very few who defect to perdition, there is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the atonement of Christ. ~ Boyd. K. Packer

[thesometimesaint]

I don't know what state you live in but in California if the amount of damage is over $50, or if there were any injuries the police need to be called. You illegally left the scene of an accident and can be legally and financially held. Plus they can sue you for damages, plus court costs that weren't part of the original accident. You have no ability to contest it.

It is ALWAYS better to not argue or leave. Remain cool, calm, collected. Let the insurance companies fight it out.

As for forgiveness from God. That is between you and him. Restitution is for the insurance companies to work out.

[inquiringmind]

I don't know what state you live in but in California if the amount of damage is over $50, or if there were any injuries the police need to be called. You illegally left the scene of an accident and can be legally and financially held. Plus they can sue you for damages, plus court costs that weren't part of the original accident. You have no ability to contest it.

It is ALWAYS better to not argue or leave. Remain cool, calm, collected. Let the insurance companies fight it out.

As for forgiveness from God. That is between you and him. Restitution is for the insurance companies to work out.

Thank you.

But how can you leave the scene of an automobile accident if no automobile was moving?

We were trying to get in the van

Dad's power chair isn't an automobile, and isn't insured.

I was maneuvering it with a joystick when I scratched their car, but i wasn't driving an automobile.

I know I should have been more careful, and i know I shouldn't have gotten angry or left, and I want to make restitution, but I didn't think I actually left the scene of an automobile accident.

Are you saying did?

Edited April 20, 2013 by inquiringmind

[inquiringmind]

I would try to make restitution for three reasons:

1 - It's just the right thing to do

2 - It will ease your mind and conscience and help you forgive them for their impatience and lack of empathy

3 - It will help them ultimately forgive you, which they will have to do if they are to progress

If you are unable to locate them after a good faith effort and no consequences follow, I would recommend you repent in your heart for attitude (even though frustration and exhaustion are a natural part of life) and take comfort in the fact that at some point the law of restitution will be suspended*.

If you try to make restitution and are unable, you are kind of like the poor person described by King Benjamin in the Book of Mosiah. The poor can't give to the beggar because he doesn't have it to give, but he can say in his heart, 'If I had to give, I would'. You, too, can be pure in your heart, even if restitution isn't possible by having your heart softened toward those women and being willing to do all you can to make restitution.

*When your desire is firm and you are willing to pay the “uttermost farthing,” the law of restitution is suspended. Your obligation is transferred to the Lord. He will settle your accounts.

I repeat, save for the exception of the very few who defect to perdition, there is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the atonement of Christ. ~ Boyd. K. Packer

Thank you Cate.

[thesometimesaint]

Thank you.

But how can you leave the scene of an automobile accident if no automobile was moving?

We were trying to get in the van

Dad's power chair isn't an automobile, and isn't insured.

I was maneuvering it with a joystick when I scratched their car, but i wasn't driving an automobile.

I know I should have been more careful, and i know I shouldn't have gotten angry or left, and I want to make restitution, but I didn't think I actually left the scene of an automobile accident.

Are you saying did?

The car(s) don't have to be moving.

A powered wheel chair is a vehicle, albeit not an automobile. Essentially no different than a golf cart.

File a report with the police, and your insurance company. I obviously have no idea as to what your insurance company contract covers, but mine covers such. It might have to come out of your own pocket. If it does be more than generous with any claims, and for the loss of that persons time.

[Calm]

What if they didn't fill out some report with the State police, and there's no way I can contact them?

Can I still be forgiven for whatever sin there was on my part?

What is the law of restitution, and how does it work?

Must I find someway of locating these people and paying them for the scratch on their car before I can expect to be forgiven by God?

If your intent is to contact them and pay for it, then I think if you do it to the best of your ability that is what is necessary. God judges by what is in the heart. If you still feel the need to do something...to make that sacrifice of restitution, then perhaps donate what it would have cost you to a good cause...perhaps to the victims of auto accidents or the recent tragedies. Edited April 20, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

I don't know what state you live in but in California if the amount of damage is over $50, or if there were any injuries the police need to be called. You illegally left the scene of an accident and can be legally and financially held. Plus they can sue you for damages, plus court costs that weren't part of the original accident. You have no ability to contest it.

It is ALWAYS better to not argue or leave. Remain cool, calm, collected. Let the insurance companies fight it out.

As for forgiveness from God. That is between you and him. Restitution is for the insurance companies to work out.

It wasn't an auto accident. It was the equivalent of a shopping cart bumping into a car and denting it. I would think the police would get rather annoyed by being called out for that or even if someone opening their door scratched another car even if the amount is over $50.

[Calm]

A powered wheel chair is a vehicle, albeit not an automobile. Essentially no different than a golf cart.

CFR

Found this, unfortunately there was no reference to the finding:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/is_motorized_wheelchair_a_vehicle_police_mull_charges_in_fatal_crash/

I would assume that different states have diffferent laws. Another site said wheelchair occupants are typically considered pedestrians, but since it was motorized it is debatable.

Edited April 20, 2013 by calmoriah

[Sine Saw Square]

I know how, in the middle of things like this, the situation can seem all consuming. Embarrassment, fear, worry, and guilt can all fog your mind and distort perspective. It might help to unravel in your own mind where you were error so you aren't worrying about unnecissary things. Scratching their car wasn't a sin. That was an accident, in it self not a moral issue. Our reaction to such events is. I think as you pointed out, leaving the seen is the main error here.

Mercyandgrace has great advice. I would add one thing. You could call the police today. Let them know what happened and see if a report was filed and what you can do to clear it up. That would help easy my mind in your situation.

[Yep]

My view:

The damage could have been avoided. You told them they needed to move the car post damage. It was possible to approach the women prior to causing the damage, if you needed the car moved.

It was wrong to not simply make restitution. You caused damage.

Arguing the case in the manner you state is beside the point with regard to whether or not you caused damage and should have provided restitution.

You are doing right if your attempt to contact the mall was to allow you to attempt restitution.

Take the attempt further, call the police in the mall area and ask about the situation.

If a report was filed, explain the situation (avoid self justification, just state the facts as objectively as possible) and ask what you can do to make the situation right. If a report was not filed, you may not be able to contact the individual if you do not know her.

You may only be capable of repentance and a change in yourself. If/when you ever come into contact with the woman again, be prepared to apologize and offer restitution.

[thesometimesaint]

CFR

Found this, unfortunately there was no reference to the finding:

http://www.abajourna...in_fatal_crash/

I would assume that different states have diffferent laws. Another site said wheelchair occupants are typically considered pedestrians, but since it was motorized it is debatable.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/lsv/lsv.html

[thesometimesaint]

It wasn't an auto accident. It was the equivalent of a shopping cart bumping into a car and denting it. I would think the police would get rather annoyed by being called out for that or even if someone opening their door scratched another car even if the amount is over $50.

Yes they probably would get annoyed. But just leaving the scene was far worse. Of course the best course of action would be just exchange insurance information, and let the insurance companies fight it out. I've seen $10,000 paint jobs on cars. I wouldn't dare have one, but I have seen them. I'd be more than a little annoyed if someone ran a shopping cart into it, and then just left.

[Calm]

http://www.nhtsa.gov...gs/lsv/lsv.html

I did a search on "wheelchair" and "wheel chair" not wanting to read the report if it wasn't relevant. Neither came up.

How is this relevant to my CFR that a wheel chair is considered a motor vehicle?

Edited April 21, 2013 by calmoriah

[rpn]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a statute prohibiting wheel chairs from causing damage and escaping. I also wonder if the hit and run statute applies in a parking lot, even if it were your auto involved. I don't think see how this involves car insurance, since it was your dad's wheel chair, not your car. So it would probably be a home owner's insurance issue. Of course, whether you were negligent in causing the damage is a fact question.

What you need to do is send a fax to the mall security with your name and contact info and the statement, "There was a car that was damaged by a wheel chair at about ________ on _______ at (the exact location). If the owners of the car contact you for my information, please provide this to them. Send a copy of this to the state police. Feel free to contact your auto insurance company if you want, and your dad's home owner's policy. But I don't think I would until I was contacted.

You will want to not settle with them unless you get a release from them that says, "We [you need releases from both people in the car and the car owner] understand that [insert your name] is not admitting he caused any damaged, or was negligent in any way on ________, or that he owes us any money. But I am accepting ________ in consideration for settling all claims I might have against [insert your name and your dad's name ] that arose on or before the date we have both signed this." And you'll also want the full contact info for the two women, and the car owner and what kind of car. Giving them money when they refuse to sign anything to release you, gives them ammunition to prove that you thought you should have paid them. When it was your dad's wheel chair then it would only be your dad they have a claim against (unless something you did contributed).

[Calm]

When it was your dad's wheel chair then it would only be your dad they have a claim against (unless something you did contributed).

If I understand correctly, he was the one 'driving' it by using the joystick to maneuver it. Edited April 21, 2013 by calmoriah

[inquiringmind]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a statute prohibiting wheel chairs from causing damage and escaping. I also wonder if the hit and run statute applies in a parking lot, even if it were your auto involved. I don't think see how this involves car insurance, since it was your dad's wheel chair, not your car. So it would probably be a home owner's insurance issue. Of course, whether you were negligent in causing the damage is a fact question.

What you need to do is send a fax to the mall security with your name and contact info and the statement, "There was a car that was damaged by a wheel chair at about ________ on _______ at (the exact location). If the owners of the car contact you for my information, please provide this to them. Send a copy of this to the state police. Feel free to contact your auto insurance company if you want, and your dad's home owner's policy. But I don't think I would until I was contacted.

You will want to not settle with them unless you get a release from them that says, "We [you need releases from both people in the car and the car owner] understand that [insert your name] is not admitting he caused any damaged, or was negligent in any way on ________, or that he owes us any money. But I am accepting ________ in consideration for settling all claims I might have against [insert your name and your dad's name ] that arose on or before the date we have both signed this." And you'll also want the full contact info for the two women, and the car owner and what kind of car. Giving them money when they refuse to sign anything to release you, gives them ammunition to prove that you thought you should have paid them. When it was your dad's wheel chair then it would only be your dad they have a claim against (unless something you did contributed).

Thank you

[thesometimesaint]

I did a search on "wheelchair" and "wheel chair" not wanting to read the report if it wasn't relevant. Neither came up.

How is this relevant to my CFR that a wheel chair is considered a motor vehicle?

It doesn't specifically list wheelchairs as cars, but it doesn't rule them out either. It does list motorized golf carts as motorized vehicles depending on speed ability. I don't know of any court cases that establish that powered wheel chairs are subject to the same laws as other vehicles. But one that is used on the public roads, including parking lots, would in theory be liable for any damages done to a person and/ or their property.