Can A Real Mormon Believe In True Grace ?

[Nominee]

I understand grace to be, SIMPLY put, the power of God.

edit to add: I am very much a LDS and I believe in grace, true grace.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Nominee

[Anakin7]

I understand grace to be, SIMPLY put, the power of God.

edit to add: I am very much a LDS and I believe in grace, true grace.

Thank you.

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[Maidservant]

It's funny, I am just in the middle of watching the Dietrich Bonhoeffer documentary on Netflix, and he wrote something about cheap grace and costly grace. A worthwhile movie.

[Anakin7]

It's funny, I am just in the middle of watching the Dietrich Bonhoeffer documentary on Netflix, and he wrote something about cheap grace and costly grace. A worthwhile movie.

You should read his book - "The Cost Of Discipleship".

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[onefour1]

Grace is a gift that is given to us that we cannot obtain in and of ourselves. We have all fallen short of the glory of God according to Romans 3:23. We cannot be saved according to the law of God for no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven according to Alma 11:37. So once we sin, even once, we have broken the law and are unclean or unfit to inherit the kingdom of heaven. We, by ourselves can do nothing to change the fact that we have sinned and fallen short of the glory. But Christ, through his atoning sacrifice, has prepared a way for us that we can repent and receive forgiveness of sin and gain access to the kingdom of heaven. But CAN MERCY ROB JUSTICE? No! For this reason it was important that our Lord be sinless. He was as a lamb without blemish.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:4

4 Saying: Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thyself might be glorified;

It was important that our Lord be sinless because it made it so that he was undeserving of the punishments that he bore. It was unjust that he, who was without sin and perfect, be subjected to such excruciating pain and suffering and also be put to death. It was not a fair thing to Jesus that he receive the punishments that he bore. He suffered for the sins of all mankind, but he didn't deserve it. It was because of this that he was deserving of a recompense for the injustice that he bore. Since his sufferings were the sufferings of every soul that has ever lived, he was deserving of a recompense that would at least equal the suffering that he bore. It was paramount that God the Father justly recompense Jesus for what he had gone through. So according to justice, God the Father recompensed Jesus for his suffering. He gave to him the ability to forgive others if they would simply repent of their sins and take upon them the name of Jesus Christ. The suffering that Jesus bore won him the right to the cleansing power of our souls. It was the just for the unjust. Because it was not just that Jesus suffer, he was recompensed for his suffering. This was a just act by the Father. In this way, mercy does not rob justice but embraces it. Our acts of sin put us in a fallen state but Jesus' act of sacrifice gives us redemption because it was just and fair that he receive a recompense for his suffering. It would have been unjust not to recompense Jesus for his suffering because he was undeserving of the punishments he received. Thus we rely on his mercy to forgive us as we strive to be like him and repent of all our sins. It is a gift that we, in and of ourselves could not obtain.

[Damien the Leper]

Nope, if you can't bootstrap your way to perfection by never sinning from birth then you are going straight to hell where you shall eat naughtt but burning hot coals and drink naught but burning hot coal. Fiery demons poke you in the back and your soul will be chopped into confettit and strewn on a parade of murderers and single mothers and the remains eaten by ravenous birds.

Can you have a portrait of this drawn up? I think I'd like to include it amongst my eventual Dante's Inferno tattoos.

[Damien the Leper]

Every time I hear the phrase "a true whatever," I start thinking about the logical fallacy "No true Scotsman."

Like the "one true church" silliness.

[Damien the Leper]

True grace is taught by King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon. Mosiah Chapter 2.

Now that you and I have discussed this, I see Mosiah as a good resource. Good call, Ray.

[Damien the Leper]

Do you believe grace means you do absolutely nothing to receive salvation?

I stated in another thread: We are saved by grace through faith, which faith is perfected by our works. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING we can do to earn or merit salvation. I do not read Eph. 2:8-9 in light of 2 Ne. 25. It doesn't work that way, for me at least. We are told to believe in heart and confess by mouth that Jesus is Lord and Saviour. There isn't a laundry list of honey-dos after that. But our faith should inspire us to do good and build up the kingdom of God.

[Damien the Leper]

Since the Book of Mormon gives the true understanding of grace, I would submit that "real Mormons" believe in "true grace". It is the majority of Protestants that do not believe in "true grace".

No. That is a matter of opinion and not fact.