Priesthood Authority And Apostacy

[DBMormon]

Apostles were given authority, A true Apostasy could not occur until this authority was lost off the face of the earth. Right?

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

What if John the Revelator stepped to the forefront and announced a revelation. Would his authority supercede President Monsons?

Which one has a right to receive revelation for the world? the church?

Can an apostasy occur if one on the earth has the keys?

Edited July 19, 2012 by DBMormon

[CV75]

Apostles were given authority, A true Apostasy could not occur until this authority was lost off the face of the earth. Right?

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

What if John the Revelator stepped to the forefront and announced a revelation. Would his authority supercede President Monsons?

Which one has a right to receive revelation for the world? the church?

Can an apostasy occur if one on the earth has the keys?

The priesthood's functionality in giving the doctrines, covenants and ordinanaces to the world under the auspices of a united council (a quorum--even Jospeh and Oliver formed a small quorum) of elders was lost. In shorthand, over time the priesthood was [effectively] lost from the face of the earth, and ultimately completely lost until the Restoration.

John did not have a quorum with which to operate on earth, and he is not part of the Quorum of Twelve on the earth today. He did have the authority to form a quorum with Jospeh and Oliver, and subsequently the sealing keys were restored to them in Kirtland.

The Church was allowed to "die" in John's time to fulfill the principle in John 12:24, "Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

Edited July 19, 2012 by CV75

[Lightbearer]

Apostles were given authority, A true Apostasy could not occur until this authority was lost off the face of the earth. Right?

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

What if John the Revelator stepped to the forefront and announced a revelation. Would his authority supercede President Monsons?

Which one has a right to receive revelation for the world? the church?

Can an apostasy occur if one on the earth has the keys?

The only problem with this old Anti-Mormon saw is that John already has stepped forward... He was the John, of Peter, James, and John who ordained Joseph and Oliver to the Melchezedek Priesthood in 1829. So Joseph and his successors have the keys of this dispensation. John is not some loose cannon out there running another church. He was in on the conferral of authority and thus his mission does not supplant the current First Presidency in fact it sustains it and backs it up. See here:

"And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them; Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; And also with all those whom my Father hath given me out of the world." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 27:12-14)

John was taken from among the people just as the three Nephites were during the darkness of the apostasy:

"But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people."

(Book of Mormon | Mormon 1:13)

The spirit will not always strive with man and when their cup of iniquity is full He leaves them to themselves. The point is the apostasy did take place, the authority of God was lost and it had to be restored through those who last held the keys of the Kingdom (Peter, James, and John) who conferred this despensation of the Gospel on Joseph Smith and his successors in the First Presidency and the Twelve. Hence Thomas S. Monson is the one who holds the keys of the kingdom in this dispensation.

[BCSpace]

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

Because neither he nor the three Nephites, whether by design or not, kept the Church in the right path of doctrine. People exercised their agency and the Church foundered in both hemispheres.

[DJBrown]

Apostles were given authority, A true Apostasy could not occur until this authority was lost off the face of the earth. Right?

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

What if John the Revelator stepped to the forefront and announced a revelation. Would his authority supercede President Monsons?

Which one has a right to receive revelation for the world? the church?

Can an apostasy occur if one on the earth has the keys?

I think of Mormon and the Nephites- he was forbidden from teaching them in their wickedness. I would certainly say that there was an apostasy among the Nephites, even though they had at least one saint with the Priesthood (likely many more).

I think the Lord allows societies to fall away as they wish. But He is not required to maintain His church organization despite the wickedness of whole societies.

Did the world apostatize in the days of Noah? He held the priesthood.

[zerinus]

Apostles were given authority, A true Apostasy could not occur until this authority was lost off the face of the earth. Right?

Then how do we explain that John the revelator never tasted of death so there has always been on on the earth alive who had the keys of the kingdom? and yet a apostasy?

What if John the Revelator stepped to the forefront and announced a revelation. Would his authority supercede President Monsons?

Which one has a right to receive revelation for the world? the church?

Can an apostasy occur if one on the earth has the keys?

Although John survived (and several others apparently, see Matthew 16:28; John 8:51; 1 Corinthians 15:51; D&C 63:51), his ministry in the Church was terminated because of the Apostasy; which would be as though he had not survived, as far as the Church was concerned.