why me Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Let's not exaggerate how well known the details were. Even Juanita Brooks, raised in the area, knew very little before the encounter with the old participant caused her to dig deeper.Known to whom? If one is a student of Utah history or a student of western US history, it is known. I don't believe that the lds church should in its lesson manuals give details about MMM. The manuals are not a Utah history lesson.
cwald Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Cwald, don't take posters too seriously. You went to church. Good for you. Go with your own feelings and not the feelings of others on this board. And just let selek be selek. Go with the flow. Look at the abuse I take on the other board...I just go with the flow.Edited. Never mind. Edited August 25, 2012 by cwald
ERayR Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) To follow up on my last post. I would love to see an official proclamation signed by the Qo12 and 1st Pres. similar to the Proclamation to the Family. It could be a list similar to the Articles of Faith but it could start out with "We don't believe... despite what some of our past leaders and prophets have been quoted on record to say." They could then list some of these fallacies and quotes head on that cause confusion.You mean like the critics? I think it is always better to offer up what you are rather than what you are not. Most don't really care what you are not but want to know what you stand for. Edited August 26, 2012 by ERayR 1
ERayR Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Just today In sacrament somebody utilized the quote from Brigham Young.This is the attitude that some members have when it comes to the prophets. So when they see quotations from previous leaders of the church that are now considered to be incorrect it becomes troubling for them.Nothing wrong with the quote if all the quote is quoted. A sentence or two can be oh so sensational.
ERayR Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 And I have been very upfront that that is exactly why I am here. I want to know if my perception of Mormonism and the faithful membership is accurate or falseYou definitely have some that are false. This happens a lot when you base your perceptions on feelings instead of reality.
ERayR Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) You are a piece of work selek. I've been nothing but forthright why I am here. I asked you two days ago to move along...yet you keep coming back and baiting me into the conversatio. And then i get chastized by the moderators...Perhaps there are others here who want to have the conversation. You don't need to get involved. Edited August 25, 2012 by ERayR
Biz Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 I'm just glad the Church sends out humble young missionaries to preach the Gospel, because if it was up to some of these folks around here we wouldn't have a Church or any members.
DBMormon Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Deleted... I give up. All hail the Mighty MDD Edited August 26, 2012 by DBMormon
why me Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Whyme, you post so much of both your conservative religious and political views that you invite "abuse". Between you and BSpace you need a life outside of message boards.The bigger question that needs to be asked is: Why so much abuse? When i look at posters on mormon related boards, I can see critics and defenders and of course all those in between. But for those critical of the lds church they can be very abusive toward the defenders. And very abusive toward the lds church. And so why the abuse? A person can disagree with an organization without being abusive toward it. But lets not bring this discussion to being abusive toward people but abusive toward an organization like the lds church. Why so abusive toward the lds church?And what is the line between critical and abuse? I think that there may be a fine line between the two. And the critics can certainly cross it often when being critical of the lds church. It just becomes a question of members recognizing the abuse before allowing it to cast doubt on the lds church and its early foundations and influence their testimony. Edited August 26, 2012 by why me 1
why me Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 I'm just glad the Church sends out humble young missionaries to preach the Gospel, because if it was up to some of these folks around here we wouldn't have a Church or any members.We need to look behind the scenes. We all have internet personalities and maybe some do not come across too christlike. That being said in the early days of my lurking on the fairboard and then posting there and having been influenced by critic information from critic boards previously, I enjoyed those who were posting here several years ago and who are still here who were rather abrasive toward the critics. I enjoyed the combative style toward the critics.However, these posters do need to be careful of not being combative with people who are just seeking information and clarification or those who have been influenced by critics and are feeling a little bruised from the information they have skimmed from critic boards.The old union protest slogan worked well for me when reading those posters: The say take back, we say fight back.
ERayR Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Unforunately, there are a few conservative LDS here who think they have it all figured out. Then when someone comes to this board and shares anything outside their little box of what a good mormon looks like and thinks like, they feel it is their license to obliterate them. They don't even know it, but they give mormonism a bad name. They feel called to be the doctrine police.For many of the same reasons they rip me and others apart, they would have major issues with other LDS like Teryl Givens, Richard Bushman, Hugh B Brown, and many of the current leaders.In fact they are the antithesis of Elder Holland's quote belowThey miss the boat on Elder Oak's quoteThey like to recant the part about how they are called to repentance, but fail to hear how they are to do that. The read how they are to reproof but leave out the coming back with twice as much love.They see the quote below and simply blow it off because I am not their family nor are they my bishopThey see quotes like this one and think not me, I am not the problem, I am part of the solution. And yet the WHYME's, KEVIN CHRISTIANSEN's, BENJAMIN MAGUIRE'S, CALMORIAH's, and many other awesome people on this board do not use these same methods that those I speak of do. They are Christlike, humble, long suffering, have love unfeigned.... Those who are blinded are obvious to me. While they are faithful believing Latter-Day Saints, they have yet to learn the real lesson from the Master himself. If ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren ye have done it unto me.I really don't think it is up to you to interpret the Master's lesson for all. It is ironic that you castigate those "few conservative LDS" who disagree with your point of view and then set yourself up as the arbiter of Christ's lessons. In the words of a hymn "Oh tis high to be a judge"
DBMormon Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 As I have loved you, Love one another is actually my favorite hymn. I also like "Lord, I would follow thee" as I have felt for about 9 months or so we need more brother's keeper's in the world.
DBMormon Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Deleted... I give up. All hail the Mighty MDD Edited August 26, 2012 by DBMormon
DBMormon Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Deleted... I give up. All hail the Mighty MDD Edited August 26, 2012 by DBMormon
volgadon Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 I'm just glad the Church sends out humble young missionaries to preach the Gospel, because if it was up to some of these folks around here we wouldn't have a Church or any members.Of course, it also sends out arrogant, pompous, overbearing and narrowminded young missionaries to preach the gospel. 2
Damien the Leper Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Of course, it also sends out arrogant, pompous, overbearing and narrowminded young missionaries to preach the gospel.Like the one who had his farewell today in my ward. He aid his mission was to correct all the false teachings of all the false churches and to bring people to the 'true' Christ. Edited August 27, 2012 by Valentinus
volgadon Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Like the one who had his farewell today in my ward. He aid his mission was to correct all the false teachings of all the false churches and to bring people to the 'true' Christ.Ugh. There was one's farewell in our ward today, but he at least was humble and loving.
Damien the Leper Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Ugh. There was one's farewell in our ward today, but he at least was humble and loving.I sincerely hope yours was better. I wanted to walk up to the kid and knock a few teeth out. Stupid, silly, pretentious arrogance. It wasn't a testimony but a "Neener, Neener...my church is more right and better than yours." What a d-bag!!ETA: the Stake Pres was there and did NOT look at all amused by the missionary's remarks. Edited August 27, 2012 by Valentinus
DavidB Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 My opinion is that individuals should not seek out critics or apologists. A belief in the restored Gospel stands or falls on a Spiritual testimony of Joseph Smith, critics and apologists can not provide that.
The Grimace Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Is it intentional or due to ignorance?How do we confront this and begin to rid ourselves of itHow do we better help members understand this false approach?What other examples do you see of critics and critical members attributing misconceptions and opinions to the doctrine of the church?Quoting out of context is a tool used by critic and faithful alike. Over the next few Sundays, listen closely to what is quoted. You will find that many scriptures and GAs words are quoted partially or out of context in order to promote faith.
The Grimace Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 You definitely have some that are false. This happens a lot when you base your perceptions on feelings instead of reality.Wow! This is exactly what I was taught to do when I joined the church - trust that the feelings I had were from the Holy Ghost and not just regular emotions.
volgadon Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Wow! This is exactly what I was taught to do when I joined the church - trust that the feelings I had were from the Holy Ghost and not just regular emotions.Cute, very cute.
ERayR Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Wow! This is exactly what I was taught to do when I joined the church - trust that the feelings I had were from the Holy Ghost and not just regular emotions.If you are so obtuse as to ascertain what this conversation is about please refrain. Old saying: It is better to keep quiet and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and leave no doubt.
KevinG Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Quoting out of context is a tool used by critic and faithful alike. Over the next few Sundays, listen closely to what is quoted. You will find that many scriptures and GAs words are quoted partially or out of context in order to promote faith....and I am quick to correct those misquotes in Sunday School and Priesthood. (If they happen in Sacrament meeting I let the Bishop handle any corrections).However these events are not as frequent as you would make them sound. It is rare to hear them in Sacrament talks. they are more likely to happen when someone repeats a faith promoting notion in Sunday School but there are usually many class members who are ready to enlighten or correct when that happens.
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