Mormon Stories - General Survey Of Effect

[Libs]

Matthew, I know it is painful for active LDS members, when family members and friends leave the church and I do feel much empathy for them...but, we are all, ultimately, responsible for our own decisions. If you are feeling inclined to blame John or Mormon Stories for your friends and family leaving (and I am not saying you are, but it kind of sounds like you might be..), I think it would be very misplaced "blame". We are all on our own journey and will gravitate to whatever places will facilitate whatever it is we need, at the time, be it church apologetics or support groups like John Dehlin's (or in some cases both). But, the decision to stay or leave rests with the individual.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Matthew, I know it is painful for active LDS members, when family members and friends leave the church and I do feel much empathy for them...but, we are all, ultimately, responsible for our own decisions. If you are feeling inclined to blame John or Mormon Stories for your friends and family leaving (and I am not saying you are, but it kind of sounds like you might be..), I think it would be very misplaced "blame". We are all on our own journey and will gravitate to whatever places will facilitate whatever it is we need, at the time, be it church apologetics or support groups like John Dehlin's (or in some cases both). But, the decision to stay or leave rests with the individual

Libs, the pain increases with each person who leaves. It creates a feeling of isolation. For amusement, I liken it to a zombie apocalypse where one by one all of your friends and family fall.:-)

No, I don't directly blame John Dehlin. The question however for me is one of what role Mormon Stories plays. In the beginning, it was a vaguely interesting and neutral voice. That seems to have changed in the last few months and it is now much more about easing transition out of the church. Supporters of Mormon Stories deny that is the purpose. So this begs the question: If most I know who struggle leave the church or shift to cultural Mormons after being introduced to Mormon Stories and its local groups, then how neutral is it? Is my experience of losing people a statistical anomaly, or is it the standard result more often than not. Obviously John Dehlin is just one person. But he interviews many people. Further, there is no debate, no challenge of assumptions and statements of "fact" from interviewees, just them telling their stories. Obviously, that's kind of the point. But the question is, what kind of effect does such unchallenged story telling from mainly former and cultural members create?

And these people I am concerned about, for the most part, were struggling before being introduced to Mormon Stories. I can think of only one where it may have been the catalyst. Again, the question is if it moves people further or closer to faith in the restored gospel. I submit that the survey shows, in a very unique group found pretty much only on this board, that Mormon Stories for the vast majority is either of no effect or it moves people away from belief in the Restored Gospel. As such, it is poison to the spirit and I cannot suggest it to friends. I am sad to say that in the early days of Mormon Stories I was the one who introduced a now shaky friend to it, believing it would remain more neutral than it has. That mistake will not be repeated.

I would also add that John Dehlin's "Mission" can be fulfilled outside the church too, and it appears that perhaps if his organization is leading people out more than in, he should consider relinquishing his membership. Otherwise, he is indeed, even if unintentionally, a wolf in sheep's clothing from a belief standpoint (and only from that standpoint, because I do think he is a nice guy).

I think more nod more I am inclined to call it Mormon Exit Stories: Finding Peace and Vindication Together

[Tacenda]

Libs, the pain increases with each person who leaves. It creates a feeling of isolation. For amusement, I liken it to a zombie apocalypse where one by one all of your friends and family fall.:-)

No, I don't directly blame John Dehlin. The question however for me is one of what role Mormon Stories plays. In the beginning, it was a vaguely interesting and neutral voice. That seems to have changed in the last few months and it is now much more about easing transition out of the church. Supporters of Mormon Stories deny that is the purpose. So this begs the question: If most I know who struggle leave the church or shift to cultural Mormons after being introduced to Mormon Stories and its local groups, then how neutral is it? Is my experience of losing people a statistical anomaly, or is it the standard result more often than not. Obviously John Dehlin is just one person. But he interviews many people. Further, there is no debate, no challenge of assumptions and statements of "fact" from interviewees, just them telling their stories. Obviously, that's kind of the point. But the question is, what kind of effect does such unchallenged story telling from mainly former and cultural members create?

And these people I am concerned about, for the most part, were struggling before being introduced to Mormon Stories. I can think of only one where it may have been the catalyst. Again, the question is if it moves people further or closer to faith in the restored gospel. I submit that the survey shows, in a very unique group found pretty much only on this board, that Mormon Stories for the vast majority is either of no effect or it moves people away from belief in the Restored Gospel. As such, it is poison to the spirit and I cannot suggest it to friends. I am sad to say that in the early days of Mormon Stories I was the one who introduced a now shaky friend to it, believing it would remain more neutral than it has. That mistake will not be repeated.

I would also add that John Dehlin's "Mission" can be fulfilled outside the church too, and it appears that perhaps if his organization is leading people out more than in, he should consider relinquishing his membership. Otherwise, he is indeed, even if unintentionally, a wolf in sheep's clothing from a belief standpoint (and only from that standpoint, because I do think he is a nice guy).

I think more nod more I am inclined to call it Mormon Exit Stories: Finding Peace and Vindication Together

I know that Mormon Stories helped me, but it was after a crisis of my faith that it fell into my lap. I can see what you're saying and I believe it leads many out of the church just by reading the facts presented in alot of the podcasts for the first time. It's good he has some on like Richard Bushman, Teryl Givens etc who give another view.

And I see that once people find out some warts in church history it not only leads them out of the church but into non belief in God, which is so hard for friends & family to fathom.

So as much as I like Mormon Stories podcasts, I agree it may be a stepping stone for people like you've described to make a break from the church more quickly than maybe if they hadn't read everything in front of them with a click of the mouse. So it's a double edged sword.

[CV75]

I could not vote on the second question because I don't know anyone with any experieince at all with Mormon Stories.

I myself have no experieince with Mormon Stories, except to check it out as I write this post (hold)... My initial reaction is that it has a pathological flavor and reflects the worst of what might fall under the banner of the term "Mormon Culture."

Edited June 22, 2012 by CV75

[Libs]

Matthew, there is a section on the Mormon Stories site called, "Responses to: How has your local Mormon Stories community helped you stay active in the LDS Church?"

Don't know that I would be allowed to link to it, but you might find that section interesting.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Libs

[Aquilifer]

I didn't vote in the poll because I didn't see a box that felt right to me for the first option, and I know of only one other person who listens to MS. She's active, but I don't pretend to know her inner thoughts towards the Church at this point.

But to offer $.02, I stumbled onto MS about a year into it. I quickly clung to it as one of several life preservers when I was hit with a personal faith crisis. At that point, the podcast was more about Dehlin trying to make sense of issues that troubled him, and it was precisely what I needed. I was grateful for the discussions I couldn't have at church, or with any family members, and doubly grateful to hear from many faithful members who could candidly discuss more difficult issues while simultaneously offering context, or providing their own interpretations, or explaining why it didn't matter in the larger scheme of their testimonies. I also appreciated Dehlin's efforts to try to bridge the gap between believing members and those like him and me who were struggling with testimonies. MS filled a gap in my life at a critical time (and so did other things, like this board, apologetics, faithful historians in the mold of Bushman, Givens, etc.). If I had to answer the poll, I'd go with option 2.

But I can't go with that answer and participate in the poll because things have changed. Dehlin, MS, and I have all gone different directions in the years since, and I cannot recommend MS now to someone who is struggling without offering a serious list of caveats (which I don't want to list out in this thread). Suffice it to say that IMHO MS has become far less interested in building bridges of dialogue between the faithful, the questioning, and the disaffected than in forming a separate community of (mostly disaffected) folks who have some sort of relationship with the Church as a common bond. Much of what I hear from Dehlin's groupies now are testimonies of how MS keeps them in a Church that they no longer believe in. To an extent that's a good thing (I'd rather keep people in than kick out doubters), but as a believing -- albeit heterodox -- Mormon, it's not something of interest to me anymore.

MS used to scratch an itch for me -- discussion of Mormon issues by people with different perspectives and positions of faith --in a way that I now enjoy from Dehlin's Mormon Matters spinoff, now rebooted and led by Dan Wotherspoon. Don't agree with everything, but it's more thought-provoking and balanced than the direction MS has taken.

[Duncan]

Libs, the pain increases with each person who leaves. It creates a feeling of isolation. For amusement, I liken it to a zombie apocalypse where one by one all of your friends and family fall.:-)

No, I don't directly blame John Dehlin. The question however for me is one of what role Mormon Stories plays. In the beginning, it was a vaguely interesting and neutral voice. That seems to have changed in the last few months and it is now much more about easing transition out of the church. Supporters of Mormon Stories deny that is the purpose. So this begs the question: If most I know who struggle leave the church or shift to cultural Mormons after being introduced to Mormon Stories and its local groups, then how neutral is it? Is my experience of losing people a statistical anomaly, or is it the standard result more often than not. Obviously John Dehlin is just one person. But he interviews many people. Further, there is no debate, no challenge of assumptions and statements of "fact" from interviewees, just them telling their stories. Obviously, that's kind of the point. But the question is, what kind of effect does such unchallenged story telling from mainly former and cultural members create?

And these people I am concerned about, for the most part, were struggling before being introduced to Mormon Stories. I can think of only one where it may have been the catalyst. Again, the question is if it moves people further or closer to faith in the restored gospel. I submit that the survey shows, in a very unique group found pretty much only on this board, that Mormon Stories for the vast majority is either of no effect or it moves people away from belief in the Restored Gospel. As such, it is poison to the spirit and I cannot suggest it to friends. I am sad to say that in the early days of Mormon Stories I was the one who introduced a now shaky friend to it, believing it would remain more neutral than it has. That mistake will not be repeated.

I would also add that John Dehlin's "Mission" can be fulfilled outside the church too, and it appears that perhaps if his organization is leading people out more than in, he should consider relinquishing his membership. Otherwise, he is indeed, even if unintentionally, a wolf in sheep's clothing from a belief standpoint (and only from that standpoint, because I do think he is a nice guy).

I think more nod more I am inclined to call it Mormon Exit Stories: Finding Peace and Vindication Together

I had a friend before he cut off allt ies with the Church and before he did he told me his struggles with the churhc, which is whatever I get it, then later he severed his ties with the Church. Now he seems to be on some kind of a crusade against the Church, he won't let it go. he has given meetings and seminars, one of which I have seen the video of and he flat out lied in parts, he exaggerated his story-which he can do to an audience that doesn't know him. He is a Dehlinite of sorts. I don't pay any attention to what he says anymore. he used to email me and bait me but I blocked him on FB and changed my email addy. I realize he is one person but he seems to crave the attention of being the ex mormon in a small pond of Mormons here.

[CASteinman]

I have tried to get some good or benefit out of Mormon Stories and have been unable. However, sometimes I have been entertained. I don't exactly count that, but don't exactly discount it. However, it was not what I was looking for. I was looking for something good, positive, uplifting and/or beneficial to me. Never found it.

I don't know anyone else who has listened or watched. I think it is pretty obscure except among the disaffected.