Kore Kosmou Continued...

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I did, but I didn't see names. That's what I was asking; and to everyone else, I'm not a [edit], just a single girl with a boyfreind

You already had a warning about using even abbreviated terms for profanity. Your stay will be short lived if you keep it up.

Rofl. You game much?

[Daniel Peterson]

For those who continue to try to interact with economicsishard on the assumption that s/he's an active member of the Church (which s/he may or may not be) with a Ph.D. (s/he first introduced herself/himself to me, over the weekend, as a graduate student at BYU):

You might, if you have the interest and the stomach for it, want to examine some of the posts there from "lancepeters," which is the name -- or, anyway, one of the names -- that s/he uses on the strangely-named "Recovery" board.

In the one that I just skimmed, she mocks "Gordo Hinkley," criticizes Kim Clark (the former dean of Harvard Business School who stepped down to preside over BYU-Idaho), ridicules BYU, uses abbreviated obscenities, and describes the leaders of the Church as "just a bunch of greedy bastards."

Here's his/her closing paragraph: 'I'll leave you with a positive note. If you want to inspire change in the church all you have to do is popularize more crazy Mormon doctrines, then when the media gets a "wiff" of the growing popularity of the crazy Mormon doctrine it will become mainstream media at which point Thomas Monson will use his emergency "batman phone" to Jesus and Joseph Smith's spirits thereby approving doctrinal changes in the church. So, do you want the word of wisdom reversed? Then think of a novel way to present it to the media like: "Thomas Monson tells the youth to never masterbate, he says that by doing so, I be filled with the spirit of the lord. He told me that when I masterbate, Satan posesses my genatalia and then becomes brothers with Satan."'

I'm not sure what game this person thinks s/he's playing, but I see little purpose in playing along.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Here's his/her closing paragraph: 'I'll leave you with a positive note. If you want to inspire change in the church all you have to do is popularize more crazy Mormon doctrines, then when the media gets a "wiff" of the growing popularity of the crazy Mormon doctrine it will become mainstream media at which point Thomas Monson will use his emergency "batman phone" to Jesus and Joseph Smith's spirits thereby approving doctrinal changes in the church. So, do you want the word of wisdom reversed? Then think of a novel way to present it to the media like: "Thomas Monson tells the youth to never masterbate, he says that by doing so, I be filled with the spirit of the lord. He told me that when I masterbate, Satan posesses my genatalia and then becomes brothers with Satan."'

Wow

That is actually pretty lame.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Daniel Peterson]

I might note, too, that economicsishard, who claims to have a Ph.D. in "computational finance," also claims, in the post that I cite above, to have been served up inside information about Kim Clark from an economics professor who, for some reason, is teaching his/her class in the history of philosophy at BYU right now.

There are two classes being taught at BYU during the current term on the history of philosophy. One is being taught by Roger Cook and the other by Jim Siebach. I know both Roger and Jim. Neither teaches in the Department of Economics. Neither is an economist.

So many, many things about economicsishard just smell . . . funny.

.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Daniel Peterson

[mfbukowski]

I did, but I didn't see names. That's what I was asking; and to everyone else, I'm not a [edit], just a single girl with a boyfreind

I guess you need new glasses, or perhaps your ego is hard to see around

You might want to search this forum for posts on Masonry, the Book of Abraham and Kaballah, as well as the council of the gods, anthropomorphic conceptions of God and other LDS subjects which will lead you to "outside" source material.

Religious principles cannot be proven historically or scientifically, but there are certainly many many evidences of parallels in the beliefs of ancient peoples and Mormon beliefs, and they are discussed regularly here. Volgadon is certainly one of the prime posters on these topics. There are also many here who are very knowledgeable about Masonry- you might find some posts by "George Miller" and those will lead you to others.

PS- You know nothing about Hume.

Edited May 31, 2012 by mfbukowski

[wenglund]

For those who continue to try to interact with economicsishard on the assumption that s/he's an active member of the Church (which s/he may or may not be) with a Ph.D. (s/he first introduced herself/himself to me, over the weekend, as a graduate student at BYU):

You might, if you have the interest and the stomach for it, want to examine some of the posts there from "lancepeters," which is the name -- or, anyway, one of the names -- that s/he uses on the strangely-named "Recovery" board.

In the one that I just skimmed, she mocks "Gordo Hinkley," criticizes Kim Clark (the former dean of Harvard Business School who stepped down to preside over BYU-Idaho), ridicules BYU, uses abbreviated obscenities, and describes the leaders of the Church as "just a bunch of greedy bastards."

Here's his/her closing paragraph: 'I'll leave you with a positive note. If you want to inspire change in the church all you have to do is popularize more crazy Mormon doctrines, then when the media gets a "wiff" of the growing popularity of the crazy Mormon doctrine it will become mainstream media at which point Thomas Monson will use his emergency "batman phone" to Jesus and Joseph Smith's spirits thereby approving doctrinal changes in the church. So, do you want the word of wisdom reversed? Then think of a novel way to present it to the media like: "Thomas Monson tells the youth to never masterbate, he says that by doing so, I be filled with the spirit of the lord. He told me that when I masterbate, Satan posesses my genatalia and then becomes brothers with Satan."'

I'm not sure what game this person thinks s/he's playing, but I see little purpose in playing along.

Lovely and endearing.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Calm]

I was thinking more along the lines of certain problems in stellar evolution, such as Type II supernovae and how soon Eta Carinae is going to blow its nut. I've also been fascinated recently with the efforts to identify members of the original nebula out of which our sun coalesced, since a large number of them are bound to be still fairly close by (astronomically speaking at any rate), and how they can be identified by their metallicities, which is theorized to be pretty close to our sun's. One aspect of this is the identification (if possible) of the supernova(e) that provided the solar system's initial dose of heavy elements, and the approximate times of their ignitions -- it occurred to me recently that there may be some chronological discrepancies between the actual and theorized age of the solar system, because while we think we know how old the sun is based on its H/He ratio (which is confirmed incidentally by radiometric dating of long-half-life isotopes), we don't actually know how much helium the sun actually started with! Assuming that there was only a negligible amount is perhaps by Occam's razor the best course, but it must be recognized that even the Razor is only to be used as a heuristic (general guiding rule or an observation) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between models. In short, assuming negligible helium in the original birth nebula of the sun is a convenience only, and subject to falsification. The solar system may not be 5 billion years old after all, but perhaps only 3 -- depending upon just how much heavy material was gifted to it by the supernova(e) that provided us with our gold and uranium.

But I digress.

I am always impressed by those who can not only write intelligently about their subject, but also make it intelligible for those who are not experts in the field.

[volgadon]

I say "discovered" because I beleive that the "maths" (UK terminology), well pure maths that is, are already in the universe waiting to be discovered. I believe, to a certain extent, Plato's analogy of "the cave". I think that the universe is full of all kinds of different truths just waiting for us to discover if we would only look up or look down far enough with an open mind.

What was that about 2000 year old shepherd logic?

[volgadon]

I'm not sure what game this person thinks s/he's playing, but I see little purpose in playing along.

Did a search on said board, here are some juciy tidbits.

It seems that for whatever reason, scholars planced these specific texts together in one single volume when speaking or writing about Egyptian religious doctrines and rights. I think this also strenghthens the idea that Joseph Smith was knee deep in occult practices.

Lastly, and this is the coolest part. If you search for FARMS and/or FAIR articles on "Kore Kosmou" nothing more has been said except for a single solitary reference that has nothing to do witht the contents of the "Kore Kosmou." Even crazier, the reference to the "Kore Kosmou" claims that the the book has not yet be translated from greek to english; however, the article on the maxwell institute's site was writting in 2000, and yet the Kore Kosmou was translated in 1880.

the reference is found here: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=9&chapid=86

the link above is the autobiography of John A. Tvedtnes' book titled "The Book of Mormon and Other Hidden Books: Out of Darkness Unto Light"

I've never posted on any of these ex-mormon type boards before. I've spent the last three years compililng tons and tons of original document information like I listed at the start of this post. If I have time this summer, I'll be posting more original and damning evidence.

This review contains simple references to Hermetic texts in the 1800s, but the rebuttal is that these texts were in French and German. Well guess what? That doesn't matter, I don't care if they were in chinese, the fact is that they were in America in the early 1800s. Is is not possible that Joseph Smith could have hired someone to translate this text from French or German? Or is it not possible that he could have asked a member of the church to help him? Do I have evidence of this? Nope, but the point is, that its no coincidence that this text was available in the early 1800s. Whether or not the text was in English is irrelevant to the arugment no matter what the Mormon Apologist William J. Hamblim attempts to refute in his argument. In fact, here is his argument, and keep in mind, I've found absolutely nothing where anyone has actually read these Hermetic texts like I have to figure out how closely they really do match Joseph Smith's insane doctrines. Here's a quote from Hamblim's apologetic insanity:

So, if Hermetica, which would contain Kore Kormou, was published when Joseph Smith Sr. was ten years old, then by 1830 it could have been entirely possible that good old Joseph Smith at least knew of these texts. Furthermore, since Joseph Smith claimed to know German, then this completely destroys Hamblims arguments. This whole thing is so utterly transparent, Hamblim destroyed his own argument by affirming that Hermetic texts existed in the 1800s and that they existed in German. Thank God that Joseph Smith knew German because it allows us to better understand his frauds.

[volgadon]

Continued.

I know, I know, but its so darn easy to debunk this stuff now, but I guess I shouldn't delight in the stupidity of Mormon Apologists and Joseph Smith himself. I mean just think about it, there are people who dedicate their whole lives getting PHDs in all sorts of different stuff so that they can try to prove that mormonism is correct. It would have been easier if they just thought, "What is the craziest, most assinine, deluded, brain-dead thing that people of the 16th-19th century were excited about?" That would be alchemy, esoteric christianity, free masonry, and hermeticism. Its no coincidence that mormon doctrine, temple ordinaces, and anything else related to the LDS church shares similarities with all this stuff. However, let me say this, Isaac Newton and one of his most esteemed students were knee-deep in this stuff as well. Cool thing is that Isaac Newton with this crazy knowledge ended up changing the world forever with calculus while Joseph Smith with this knowledge had sex with 14 year old girls. If I believed in a God, then I am nearly 80% sure that discovering calculus trumps having sex with teenagers, but who knows, I just may be wrong.

Oh yeah, I've read a few things about those and in fact, I have a few 2nd edition texts from Free masonry on those subjects as well. These books are on free mason theology and written, as a 2nd edition, in 1850s. I'm going to look into it. Also, and this is for everyone because you will hear much much more from me. I received and email from Daniel Peterson about my posts here. I sent him an email last night to show him the Kore Kosmou. I will remain 100% annonymous in all my post as I am hidden behind a TOR network and VPN so that I can post stuff like this without attracting the ire of the Membership Improvement Mafia. You will also notice that I will not be mincing words when In post information, In fact, to better explain this, I sent this email to Daniel Peterson just two minutes ago. This email comes after the email he sent me making reference to the phrase "damning evidence" that I used in one of my posts, and like my other posts, he is watching this post as well. Be smart folks the Membership Improvement committee is busy improving members, so I am helping them to improve themselves.

""Dr. Peterson,

One last thing I almost forgot. You know how your articles are littered with statements such as:

"Obviously, ...."

"Really? ...."

"This closes the book on that argument"

"This luminous principle is represented in our Lodges by the First Great Light and symbolized by Three Lesser Lights; which being material, point out palpably to the sense a reference to the operation of light on the mind" (The Theocratic Philosophy of Freemasonry, 1840) (I apologize, what a horrible and terrible reference, I guess I should have picked a reference that isn't freemasonry philosophy of the God head, oh well at least it matches Mormon doctrine and coincides with the points I am trying to make here, inspiration or free masonry theology, interesting)

You see those arguments above are all arguments that assume more authority than necessary and it so happens that I plan on using the same conventions in my arguments. In fact, If you'd like to use my "damning evidence" phrase it works wonders. For example, "This is damning evidence that the phrase damning evidence works wonders," or "there is damning evidence that FARMS researchers use manipulative linguistic conventions to convince their readers that they have damning evidence."

Also, feel free to post this email wherever you like and tell whoever you like, the important part is that even if folks know about the use of these linguistic conventions they will only know about your use as well. Let's see how things pan out when the youth start feeding you folks your same medicine; our nice approach hasn't worked out very well, and we'd like to continue being members of this great organization, but only if you would just stop your silly little lies. Lastly, this new movement is gaining steam, and the cool part is were smart enough to remain hidden. My hope is that after you begin to see the results of this incoming wave that you change the tone of both FARMS and FAIR; and no I don't care if you are responsible for pushing the buttons there or not, I will be heard.""

In the coming months/years, I'll be posting tons and tons of information about this free masonry stuff, its actually pretty interesting, but also very telling. I'll continue to do so until FARMS, FAIR, and church leadership repent of their errors.

Look at that, the apologists spent the whole evening writing up their rebuttles. Interesting that you would call me a zoobie. Crazy thing is I never told anyone I was a BYU student except for Dr. Peterson, and I never posted this email stating I was a BYU student to Dr. Peterson. Not to worry apologist folks, scholarship is the last thing on my mind, I'll leave the disproving to you folks. The funny thing is this, the more you aruge against this points, the more members of the church will see these arguements and therefore see the true nature of your your satanic practices. See, my work is based in solid references that Joseph Smith "could" have accessed, where as your arguments are based on, "I prayed nad Jesus told me that Joseph was a good guy." Good argument, great scholarship. How about instead of disproving these references, why not use othere references from "joseph smith's days" to prove your points? No, you can't, yeah I know. Its oaky, let me help you out. I can disrespect you more than you will ever imagine, and I am closer to you than you think. Remember, you folks taught me as a child to keep my enemies close, and yes, I'm keeping you very very close, this fun isn't apologists folks? Lets keep this ball rolling because the more you refute your religion with irrefutable evidence the more I expose your lies. Again, I am just feeding you your own medicine. I love how easy it is to refute Joseph Smith's claims with literature available during his time. My job is to expose the evidence knowing before hand that you apologist folks will scurry like carp to eat up each and every argument I produce.

Let me leave you with this, I am absolutely 100% certain that Joseph Smith is a liar. I testify that he lied about his prophetic powers and because of this, he will burn in hell for his irresponsible use of God's name. I testify that the ancient traditions of our fathers have been destroyed and corrupted beyond repair. At the end of the day, I hope that you begin to recognize the errors of you ways. I hope that you come to the realization that Joseph Smith didn't receive this information by the power of revelation, but he received this information by creative interpretation of translated ancient documents. I wish this weren't the case, I wish he had told the truth. In fact, who knows, perhaps he would have better explained himself had he not be murdered. Either Joseph Smith was a liar or the folks who succeeded him were liars. This whole mess would go away if you apologestic folks, church leadership, FARMs, and FAIR would begin to realize that perhaps Joseph Smith's claims are not what they represent. I'll be the first to admit that I am amazed and awestruck by the ancient traditions that Joseph Smith attempted to revive and I find that the mormon church has done many great things; however, I will not continue to give creedence and acceptance to liars like yourselves who refuse to seriously consider Joseph Smiths true fraud. Let me end with this.

Does this evidence that I produce prove that the Mormon church isn't more correct than any other religion? No, not at all. In fact, if I assume the mormon church is true, then the evidence I produce would show that the Mormon church is actually a restoration of ancient principles; nevertheless, you continue to refut this evidence that proves the ancient traditions of the church. You would rather uphold Joseph Smith's prophetic power instead of realizing the evidence actually points to a clever ancient restoration. I refuse to prophesey about Joseph Smith's claims and forgeries. The great part about this? It doesn't make the church less true, it makes it more robust and historically based, but I dont expect you to realize this. The more you refute this evidence the more you refute your own religious beliefs. You know what would be awesome? It would awesome if you would try to incorporate my evidence into your models of the world instead of constantly refuting these arguments. The more I read about the history of esoteric christianity, mystical traditions, and freemasonry, the more I find that the Mormon church is closely aligned to ancient traditions of the past. Unfortunately, this evidence doesn't suggest prophetic undertaking, it suggests rational choice by Joseph Smith and his buddies. I pray that you begin to realize the truth behind Joseph Smtihs' claims. I pray that you will put down your sword, replacing your hatred and lies with love toward members who wish to dive into the history of church thereby discovering the robustness of its claims. I pray that FARMs, FAIR, and church leadership will begin to realize that frank discussion of these claims is necessary for our survival. I pray that you folks begin to notice that historical arguments will never cease to be and will continue to disuade members away from the church. I have an easy answer for you folks, here it is: When someone asks for or presents evidence or possible source documents that Joseph Smith may have used for inspiration, then instead of calling that person a liar, why don't you try this?

"Oh, that's pretty interesting, lets investigate this TOGETHER AS BROTHERS and figure out whats really going on; that way, we will grow closer to eat other and God"

We've tried that approach with you folks and it didn't work. Because of this, I've decided to speak in the same language of lies you folks constanly perpetuate. My hope at the end of the day is that you realize how manipulative and hurtful this language is. Until you make this realization, I will not stop; and keep im mind, I have around 75,000 books on esoteric, mystical, and freemasonry tradition dating from 1AD to early 1900s and so far, I've only had to reference 2 books in order awaken your spirits. I wish this were easier, but its not, and unfortunatley, until the process is resolved, more and more folks will leave the church. Take a look in the mirror apologist folks, your methods are not working. Perhaps your testimoneis are too wrapped up in supposed "prophetic revelations" that you refuse to look to the richness and robustness that is the history of the world, I feel bad for you folks, I really do.

[volgadon]

Keeps getting better.

Oh yeah, since SL Cabbie knew that I am a BYU student then this means he is either Dr. Peterson himself, speaks with Dr. Peterson, or is an apologist. SL Cabbie, would you mind explaining to me how you knew I told Dr. Peterson that I am a BYU student? This should be fun. Oh yeah, and since you read these posts Dr. Peterson, I will see you in class this fall, but the fun thing is that you won't know who I am! Prepare for some awesome there buddy.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 11:11AM by lancepeters.

I agree with you Jacob. My research doesn't rquire much time and I figure, perhaps one day the FARMs, FAIR, and church leaders will finally come out of the closet of darkness and finally apologize to those folks' lives they've destroyed. I'll tone down my attacks to post just relevant and interesting evidences and discoveries. I plan on setting up a web site soon where my findings will be posted and discussed in detail.

[Calm]

Did a search on said board, here are some juciy tidbits.

so much for:

I am absolutely 100% certain that Joseph Smith is a liar. I testify that he lied about his prophetic powers and because of this, he will burn in hell for his irresponsible use of God's name. I testify that the ancient traditions of our fathers have been destroyed and corrupted beyond repair.

While I am new to this forum, I am not new to Mormonism, I am a devout member myself

As far as I can tell, her "devout" belief is that JS lied about the source of the ancient traditions he gathered together and corrupted them beyond repair, but that it will all turn out good if the church leadership and everyone else just admits that and leans on her type of scholarship to find the Truth.

If I have interpreted her position incorrectly, hopefully she will correct me.

Edited June 1, 2012 by calmoriah

[economicsishard]

OH wow, I see you guys have been busy. I don't have too much time to answer your questions, but I think this whole mess is due to my comments that I made to Dan Peterson when I first joined this forum. Understand this, I don't know where you guys are getting your information from. Those posts that you are listing are not my posts, I am not quite sure who this "lancepeters" is, but I assure you that I am a woman. I am originally from Ohio, but I am currently living in Chicago. I work for a hedge fund here, but I'd rather keep the details of that work to myself; I also do work for venture capitalists and private equity firms. I didn't attend BYU, I did my undergrad at NYU, and like I've said before, I'd rather keep the name of my graduate school to myself. I apologize ror whatever I've done wrong here in the forums, and I apologize for using an acronym that has been banned; I've been living in the city far too long and I sometimes get too comfortable with my surroundings. Anyway, thinking about it, you guys didn't ask a question, except fo the guy I was talking to about David Hume. You said that I know nothing about Hume right? Well, I don't remember everything about him, LOL. I took one philosophy class and four logic classes and I only remember that in his book, "Treatise on Human Nature", specifically in the introduction, he talks about his philosophy concerning belief, its only a short snippet and if I remember right, its very hard to miss. I tried to look it up last night, but I was getting tired and I could only find a PHD paper written about the few instances where David Hume references the idea of belief; in fact, one of Humes major themes, according to this paper, is that he had a tough time defining belief, this is what I was referencing, its htat defnition of what does belief mean; does it mean everything we know up to now, or does it mean everything ever so that we can never really define belief. Thats what I was referencing.

Last thing before I have to jump into some research here for work, I do have a testimony of the LDS church and its doctrines. I love the Lord Jesus Christ and what he has done for me in my life. I don't know where I would be without him. I have a billion questions rolling around in my brain day and night and Heavenly Father always seems to have enough time to help to me answer those questions and for this I am thankful for my Heavenly Father. I have a testimony of the restored church, I have a testimony in the Book of Mormon and know that its is the word of God. I know that the work we are participating is a great and wonderful miracle that would not be possible had it not be inspired by Jesus Christ. I know President Monson is a prophet of God and I know that his guidance will help us faithful members whether the incoming storm that is appraching on the horizen. I don't mean to make this thread all emo-style, but I just have to get that off my chest so you guys know that my intentions are true and I am really excited to learn for the Mormon Scholars that post here. Thanks for listening,

[Matthew J. Tandy]

1) Has s/he never read Nibley? Or countless FARMS articles? I mean, she's acting as if Esoteric thought and Mormon research is something new, or Masonry connections (gasp!). I think it's great that s/he is reading some of it now, but Coptics, Masons, and even Islamic and Jewish mysticism has all been referenced by us before. The whole statement made about why are we fighting learning about it instead of adapting it into our studies... well... sorry, we've been doing it for decades.

2) Lies upon lies upon lies. Is Economicsishard a faithful Mormon? Or perhaps Economicsishard is a disaffected Mormon who is now Christian? Because Economicsishard talks about not only praying, but also how damned Joseph is and how he will burn in hell. Wait, or is Economicsishard an atheist? Because, well, Economicsishard in the quoted posts straight out says he doesn't beleive in God, then conjectures about what his God would be like.

3) So much bullcrap and lack of knowledge about actual history in the post. Sex with a 14 year old girl? Really, you want to toss that around? Because it shows a total lack of not only church history and research on Joseph Smith and consummation, but historical reference to marriage age in the 19th century. And that's the easy one. The amount of bill in there was amazing. Truly, it takes someone with skill to crap it all in like that.

4) Even the posts over there from Economicsishard are rambling, contradictory, and show signs of major mental problems. Apparently that medicine is causing too many problems or not solving enough.

5) The threats against Dan and being in his class next semester are, I reckon, a load of bullcrap designed to induce paranoia. Even if true, it's designed to create the same effect. Which means there is something seriously seriously wrong with this person. And I feel sorry for them and hope they get help before they or someone else is hurt.

6) I've now read through about 3 hours worth of the Kore Kosmou. I am not finding all these great amazing finds. Apparently Economicsishard is finding phantoms in every corner. My assumption is it's because Economicsishard is either just nuts, or is desperate to justify their anger, screw logic and reason.

7) Economicsishard is the kind of psychotic anti-Mormons that legitimate people with reasonable concerns and questions about the church and scholarship therein distance themselves from. I want all of our non-member and non/differently-believing member friends here, such as Craig Paxton, Libs, Chris Smith, and many others to know I would never ever put you in the same boat as this nutbag. You guys are great. Sometimes I feel like I need to apologize for the crazy Mormon neighbor who starts spouting crazy stuff about the church from within as proof of truth. In this case, I feel the need to let everyone else know I don't judge you by Economicsishard.

I hope you get the psychological help you need.

[volgadon]

OH wow, I see you guys have been busy. I don't have too much time to answer your questions, but I think this whole mess is due to my comments that I made to Dan Peterson when I first joined this forum. Understand this, I don't know where you guys are getting your information from. Those posts that you are listing are not my posts, I am not quite sure who this "lancepeters" is, but I assure you that I am a woman.

Whatever we are, we aren't stupid. The same subject, the same parallels in the same text, the same poor spelling and bad grammar, etc., yet you want us to believe that it is someone else?

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Note:

It is difficult to say whether or not Economicsishard is LancePeters. Due to the sudden same interest and claims sprouting up at the same time, the evidence points to yes. It's easy to claim being one person on the internet, and then turn around and say no in another area, you are someone else. To me, the evidence of common phrases and early things you said (since deleted), makes it appear you are most likely one and the same.

So here's my groundrule: Economicsishard, as long as you are decent over here, I will happily engage you on the face of your actions and behavior here. Even if not genuine on your part, we are always happy to have civil discussions about new and interesting historical items. So it's a win situation for us. But only if it stays civil.

And, while the 7 items I listed may not apply to you directly, perhaps some do. I have read through a lot of the link. It's very interesting, but I find little of relevance beyond saying yes, esoeteric thought is common throughout the world and in all ages and times.

[Daniel Peterson]

Understand this, I don't know where you guys are getting your information from. Those posts that you are listing are not my posts, I am not quite sure who this "lancepeters" is

From post #54 on the thread entitled "Corrections to Some of Xander/Kevin's Latest Falsehoods":

Dan, I am Lancepeters

(See http://www.mormondia...ds/page__st__40 .)

[volgadon]

From post #54 on the thread entitled "Corrections to Some of Xander/Kevin's Latest Falsehoods":

(See http://www.mormondia...ds/page__st__40 .)

Here is a fuller version.

Dan, I am Lancepeters, but I am not anyone else. SL Cabbie shut down my thread over there on Kore Kosmou because he didn't understand what I was trying to get at. I did post alarmesat, yet interesting topics, and I am not here on this board to spew anti-mormon crap, I came here to learn. I have some very interesting books from 1800s, I don't know if they are related to what Joseph Smith did nor do I know if he had access to them, but I do know that I am more that willing to learn. Again, my posts here will not be alarmist, I will post only well thought out, hopefully well researched information, and I will not post anything more about you anywhere, I promise. My last post about you was where I said I was more right than you, but that wasn't a seriuos post, even thouht that post is a demosntration of Bertrand Russell's paradox. I'm serious when I tell you that I have a thousands of books, I even posted a small portion of what I have on the recovery boards, but that is only a small portion. I am interested in the occultt surroundings at thet time of Joseph Smith, not interested like Michael Quiin or Mark Hoffman, but interested in a way where I think it should be discussed and looked at. I think this board here will find some interesting and cool findiings in this literature. I will leave my negativities and frustrations and hate for other situations, but not for here. Great, so here''s the link to a large three volume Hermetic text that was transalated and analyzed in I think 1906, its interesting; have a stab at it folks. Dan, some of the FARMS and FAIR folks have referenced the followiing text, but never from content always from "history" alone, at least that is what I've read so far.

http://sacred-texts....o/th1/index.htm

[Matthew J. Tandy]

From post #54 on the thread entitled "Corrections to Some of Xander/Kevin's Latest Falsehoods":

(See http://www.mormondia...ds/page__st__40 .)

Ahahahah, too funny! Add that to the three completely different views of God and religion espoused, and this person can't keep their story straight! Either someone out for some fun poking all of the ant hills (including the anti one, since they;ve changed their belief in God in there), or one person who seriosuly needs help.

Again, to all the others who aren't active LDS here, we don't judge you by this crackpot.:-)

[economicsishard]

1) Has s/he never read Nibley? Or countless FARMS articles?: Some Hugh Nibley and FARMS. I'll spend some time going over their works. I'm always making things difficult for myself and I should have stuck to the simple texts written by Hugh Nibley and FARMS.

2) Lies upon lies upon lies. Is Economicsishard a faithful Mormon? YES Or perhaps Economicsishard is a disaffected Mormon who is now Christian? No Because Economicsishard talks about not only praying, but also how damned Joseph is and how he will burn in hell. Wait, or is Economicsishard an atheist? No. Also, I'm female!

3) So much bullcrap and lack of knowledge about actual history in the post. Sex with a 14 year old girl? I don't even know what this means, but NO, I'm female. Really, you want to toss that around? Same response as before.

4) Even the posts over there from Economicsishard are rambling, contradictory, and show signs of major mental problems. Apparently that medicine is causing too many problems or not solving enough. Where does this person post things?, I ask because I copied the second or third thread in this post from some forum after reading the Kore Kosmou..

5) The threats against Dan and being in his class next semester are, I reckon, a load of bullcrap designed to induce paranoia. I'm done with school, not going back, at least not yet, and not to BYU. Even if true, it's designed to create the same effect. Which means there is something seriously seriously wrong with this person. And I feel sorry for them and hope they get help before they or someone else is hurt.

6) I've now read through about 3 hours worth of the Kore Kosmou. I am not finding all these great amazing finds. Apparently Economicsishard is finding phantoms in every corner. My assumption is it's because Economicsishard is either just nuts, or is desperate to justify their anger, screw logic and reason. I could be finding phantoms, I am paid to find phantoms all day long by looking at loads and loads of abstract data; I guess sometimes things just click in my mind so much that I think there is a connection. This is what's required for me to be successful at my job, but I guess it doesn't work so well when it comes to history.

7) Economicsishard is the kind of psychotic anti-Mormons that legitimate people with reasonable concerns and questions about the church and scholarship therein distance themselves from. I want all of our non-member and non/differently-believing member friends here, such as Craig Paxton, Libs, Chris Smith, and many others to know I would never ever put you in the same boat as this nutbag. You guys are great. Sometimes I feel like I need to apologize for the crazy Mormon neighbor who starts spouting crazy stuff about the church from within as proof of truth. In this case, I feel the need to let everyone else know I don't judge you by Economicsishard. Psychotic, perhaps, anti-Mormon? Not a chance buddy. Don't apologize, I would feel the same way if I was as passionate about this stuff as you are. I do the same things with math, if we get into math arguments, then it'll be an all out battle. If you were trying to convince my girlfreinds that 2 plus 2 is actually 5, then I would be pretty darn upset!

[economicsishard]

I'm not gonna lie, I am very confused right now as to who you think I am. I don't know what you are talking about, Do I have a virus on my computer maybe? I don't know, is someone using my account? Besides me?? I don't get it, I've not done anything wrong in this post other than misuse an acronym. Do you guys have a way to see who's been logging into my account? I should probably check all my accounts since I've been getting a lot of spam lately. What can I do so that you guys believe me?? I'm dead serious? Are you JOKING? This is just frustrating!!

[volgadon]

I'm not gonna lie,

That would make a good start.

[economicsishard]

I just check my programs running and it say says something called ebaymasterclass.exe, I don't use ebay, could this be the problem? Do you guys know where I go to check this out to see if I've been infected?? Oh crappies, this is ruining my night, I don't want to be a burden to you guys, becuase it seems like you don't believe me, Do you know of another place I ask questions and learn more bout the topics I'm interested in? If you do please let me know, I'll start a new life on another forum. I'm so sory for the confusion and mess. Do you guys know what other sites have my username "economicsishard"? ?? This is the first time something like this has happened, not I'm worried, WHERE IS Lancepsters from? Please i fyou know I don't want my informatino stolen! Help me just this last time. im about to cry, this is so upsetting.

[economicsishard]

I've got it, check to see whos been loggin into my account, check for me please; I'll change my password rright now.

[Daniel Peterson]

The first "lancepeters" post that I saw over at the oddly-named "Recovery" board was essentially identical to an e-mail that "kose kosmou" had sent me a bit earlier, and obviously has the same author as economicsishard's posts here. When, responding to "kose kosmou," I alluded to the "lancepeters" post on the strangely-named "Recovery" board, "kose kosmou" became quite upset and began to issue bizarre and incoherent threats, etc.