Christianity: "It'S The Pope And Tebow"

[Bob Oliverio]

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7788856

Kind of a refreshing article to read about the public impact Tim Tebow is having on young people today.  15,000 people coming from 100s of miles.  Really is pretty neat story for this Easter Sunday.

Got me thinking.  Does anyone think Pres. Monson or any Church Prophet will be recognized in a similar fashion to carry the Gospel to the world like Tebow has nationally and the Pope has done on the world stage?

Why does the Church limit the Prophet's exposure to, for all practical purposes, general conference telecasts on KBYU which are rarely carried, seen or viewed outside of the limited exposure they get in the intermountain west?  

We have seen so much in the national media and press about how Romney has a big problem in relating to people, especially women. And I do not want this to be a political thread.  But could Romney be just a product of a culture within the Church?  Should the Church make a greater effort to put the Prophet front and center for the worldwide audience to get to know?  Could the Prophet draw the interest of a world wide Christian audience - or even a national audience?

Unfortunately I think less than 1 in 100 people here in Georgia would be able to name, by title or last name, the head of our Church.  We seem to still be a church recognized more by polygamy than a living Prophet.  Why don't we lead publicly with our greatest strength?  For the megamillions we spend on TV commercials promoting the Church, why not raise the level of attention to the only living  Prophet and put him out front in media and worldwide speaking engagements?

[wenglund]

To me, there is a delicate balance to be struck between spreading the message of the gospel far and wide as possible so that the celebrity of the messengers or the popularity of events don't eclipse the message. If I recall correctly, the Savior, during his mortal ministry, felt it necessary at times to ask people to keep thing quite presumably to avoid this from happening. I mean, if Christ wanted to, and thought it best, he could instantly transform the earth into a giant amphitheater with an undoubtedly enthralled audience. But, he doesn't work that way, and for good reason.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[volgadon]

Now I'm certain this is DanGB.

[Bob Oliverio]

To me, there is a delicate balance to be struck between spreading the message of the gospel far and wide as possible so that the celebrity of the messengers or the popularity of events don't eclipse the message. If I recall correctly, the Savior, during his mortal ministry, felt it necessary at times to ask people to keep thing quite presumably to avoid this from happening. I mean, if Christ wanted to, and thought it best, he could instantly transform the earth into a giant amphitheater with an undoubtedly enthralled audience. But, he doesn't work that way, and for good reason.

I would have to disagree with here.  Biblical scriptures are filled with Christ drawing and speaking to huge crowds.  It was his very charisma and the ability to draw followers to hear him speak that gave recognition to the gospel.  In this respect, he was far more like the Pope and Tebow today.  We may rationalize why our Prophets don't get the same recognition, notoriety or following but I think that could be ignoring the real problem.  We really dont have a recognized or respected leader to bring our gospel to a national r worldwide platform.  

I just cant help wondering why Pres. Monson and the Church don't put a greater effort to be more visible in elevating the platform for our gospel message and credibility of our beliefs.

[cinepro]

Unfortunately, the Lord's plan of prophetic succession isn't tailored for the most media-saavy Apostles to necessarily lead the Church. For President Monson specifically, he seems to be more and more effected by age, so putting him in the media spotlight may not be the best thing for the Chuch. Other Apostles in line might be suited for a Hinckley-esqe run as the face of the Church (I think Elders Holland and Perry could do especially well. Elders Packer and Scott probably not.)

That's just looking at it from a purely "media" standpoint. But even Moses needed an Aaron.

[Bob Oliverio]

Unfortunately, the Lord's plan of prophetic succession isn't tailored for the most media-saavy Apostles to necessarily lead the Church. For President Monson specifically, he seems to be more and more effected by age, so putting him in the media spotlight may not be the best thing for the Chuch. Other Apostles in line might be suited for a Hinckley-esqe run as the face of the Church (I think Elders Holland and Perry could do especially well. Elders Packer and Scott probably not.)

That's just looking at it from a purely "media" standpoint. But even Moses needed an Aaron.

I can appreciate the challenges of President Monson's age in his ability to represent the Church's message on a national or global basis.  I think even the Catholic church has seen the impact from having the young energy of John Paul to his latter years and those currently of Pope Benedict.  Still, the mere presence or appearance of the "Pope" draws worldwide attention and hundreds of thousands to see or hear him.

And that's where I was really going.  Why do we never see the Church promote the only "True Living Prophet of God" when it tries to market and promote itself in the media.  It seems as if it really has no confidence in this claim or believes it would be a hinderance in attracting new investigators.  The title "Pope" has earned centuries of respect and credibility to christians worldwide.  Doesn't the title of "The Prophet" have even greater significance and history in Christianity?  Why is the Church so afraid to lead with it in raising the platform of  our gospel message???

[blueadept]

At the Los Angeles Religious Education Congress there's a speaker, John Allen, Jr that's a CNN correspondent that's an insider to the Vatican who keeps us in touch with recent issues the Vatican has dealt with as well as a forecast of the concerns of the Vatican for the upcoming year. It's impressive how much the Vatican deals with the worldly issues and how well the Pope makes his presence known.

IMO, it's the age of the Presidents that makes it difficult so that the LDS church can make a more visible impact upon the world. Due to the selection process you have for the President of the church, I don't foresee much changing and this will be a continual issue IMHO.

[Mark Beesley]

I would have to disagree with here. Biblical scriptures are filled with Christ drawing and speaking to huge crowds. It was his very charisma and the ability to draw followers to hear him speak that gave recognition to the gospel. In this respect, he was far more like the Pope and Tebow today. We may rationalize why our Prophets don't get the same recognition, notoriety or following but I think that could be ignoring the real problem. We really dont have a recognized or respected leader to bring our gospel to a national r worldwide platform.

I just cant help wondering why Pres. Monson and the Church don't put a greater effort to be more visible in elevating the platform for our gospel message and credibility of our beliefs.

What do you suggest the Church should do that it is not doing?

[volgadon]

It seems as if it really has no confidence in this claim or believes it would be a hinderance in attracting new investigators.

You really ought to give Preach My Gospel another look.

[Bob Oliverio]

It's impressive how much the Vatican deals with the worldly issues and how well the Pope makes his presence known.

I think this a cultural difference between the Catholic Church and the Church.  Granted, the Catholic Church has existed since the days of Christ and has had centuries in establishing it's doctrine and theology.  But it has a confidence of it's message and leadership on a global platform.  It really does lead with it's knowledge, confidence and claims to Christian origin.  I don't see this at all in our Church.  I think our culture is still a Utah church.  Why don't we outwardly claim to be led by the only true living prophet more openly with confidence.  Why don't we put those who speak officially for the Church in a forum of national/international recognition?  Why do we leave public figures like Mitt Romney having to dodge questions that the Church will never publicly address.  

I was watching FOX this morning and they have always had someone like Father Jonathan Morris on to speak officially for Catholic doctrine as well as other important Christian issues.  Ironically I saw Cardinal Dolan and Father Morris speaking up on behalf of Mormonism more over Easter week than I saw anyone speaking on behalf of the Church.  With Romney as a candidate, I can assure you the Church could get airtime for an official spokesperson at the drop of a hat over the past and future nine months.  

I guess I would love to see the Prophet get out in public and personally verbalize and explain all the same claims we hear every week in sacrament meetings.  As Tim Tebow said yesterday before thousands - if you have faith your beliefs - then don't be shy about sharing them.  It just seems the Church has a certain  amount lockjaw away from the ward.

I just think we have more than message board apologists to promote us.

[zerinus]

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7788856

Kind of a refreshing article to read about the public impact Tim Tebow is having on young people today.  15,000 people coming from 100s of miles.  Really is pretty neat story for this Easter Sunday.

Got me thinking.  Does anyone think Pres. Monson or any Church Prophet will be recognized in a similar fashion to carry the Gospel to the world like Tebow has nationally and the Pope has done on the world stage?

When the Pope goes to some foreign place, and a big crowd goes to meet him, or attend his open air Mass, these are for the most part Catholics. When the President of the LDS Church goes to some foreign place and dedicates a temple, or attends a regional or multi-start conference, and a big crowd go to see him, they are for the most part Mormons. I don't see any difference between the two---except that (1) the Catholic Church is much bigger, so it attracts a bigger crowd; and (2) the Pope is regarded as a head of state, and is treated accordingly, whereas the President of the LDS Church is not.

[volgadon]

Besides, it is not as if most people overseas know who Tebow is or even care.

[Duncan]

you don't want to get the message mixed up with the messenger. I don't follow American football so Tebow isn't a person of interest to me. I think in the Church we have our own versions of this type of hype and popular speakers

[Bob Oliverio]

Besides, it is not as if most people overseas know who Tebow is or even care.

With all due respect, and recognizing the difference between "factualize and rationalize" you may want to reconsider after you investigate that statement a little deeper:

Tebowing.com has had 15 million total views. “People have sent in pictures of them tebowing from 75 countries."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/14/tebowing-goes-global-aswinning-denver-quarterback-dazzles.html  

And that is just one of many articles on his worldwide impact.

And, unfortunately, it's actually President Monson who so few in this country, let alone "overseas", know or care about. And that is not meant as an insult, but just the reality and truth about how so few outside of Utah have any recognition of him and his position.

And this isn't really about popularity.  My point was and is that I don't see the Church, or the Prophet, doing anything outside of sacrament meetings or GC to lead with what we really identify and distinguish ourselves with as being led by "the only true and living prophet of Jesus Christ".  We don't see or hear about it in the millions of dollars the Church spends on TV and other media.  We don't hear it from those who make statements in the press on behalf of the Church.  As I alluded to before, we are so proud, reverent  and vocal of this claim in the isolated or insulated confines of our own small gatherings.  But, IMHO, the Church seems so distant from this claim publicly.  It just makes me wonder about their own comfort in promoting or supporting the significance of this.

[volgadon]

With all due respect, and recognizing the difference between "factualize and rationalize" you may want to reconsider after you investigate that statement a little deeper:

Quote

Tebowing.com has had 15 million total views. “People have sent in pictures of them tebowing from 75 countries."

http://www.thedailyb...ck-dazzles.html

And that is just one of many articles on his worldwide impact.

Looking at that site, the vast majority of worldwide photos appear to be either from American tourists, soldiers or ex-pats. If anything, the locals probably see it as yet another example of crazy American behaviour. For some initial results, I did a Russian search for тим тибоу, so far I've found one page listing athletes, the rest are protestant blogs, representing a small fragment of the population which isn't taken terribly seriously by the majority of Russians.. A search on the largest Ukrainian online news site bigmir.net brought up zero results. If you know of any more articles on Tebow's worldwide impact, please share. I've been in the USA for a few years, never heard of Tebow until after a friend posted the SNL sketch on facebook.

[Bob Oliverio]

Looking at that site, the vast majority of worldwide photos appear to be either from American tourists, soldiers or ex-pats. If anything, the locals probably see it as yet another example of crazy American behaviour. For some initial results, I did a Russian search for тим тибоу, so far I've found one page listing athletes, the rest are protestant blogs, representing a small fragment of the population which isn't taken terribly seriously by the majority of Russians.. A search on the largest Ukrainian online news site bigmir.net brought up zero results. If you know of any more articles on Tebow's worldwide impact, please share. I've been in the USA for a few years, never heard of Tebow until after a friend posted the SNL sketch on facebook.

This really was not a thread about Tim Tebow.  I'll let you scan the internet to find your own conclusions with respect to his worldwide recognition. I just gave you one of many!

But to get back on topic -  The question and issue is really about the Church's confidence in promoting, supporting and leading with the commitment to our faith and belief in the claim of our Church being led by "the only true living prophet of God".  

Why doesn't the Church show confidence and lead, support or promote this as our defining strength and difference.  Why doesn't President Monson portray himself as such in public?

[volgadon]

This really was not a thread about Tim Tebow. I'll let you scan the internet to find your own conclusions with respect to his worldwide recognition. I just gave you one of many!

An old classic. -Lots of people say this! -Who? -This guy. -But he isn't really saying that. -Well, lots of people say it, go find someone, somewhere!

I'll make it really easy. Provide me with just one more article on Tim Tebow's worldwide impact and recognition. This cuts to the heart of the examples you were using, not everyone knows or cares who Tebow is, despite his media draw in the USA.

But to get back on topic - The question and issue is really about the Church's confidence in promoting, supporting and leading with the commitment to our faith and belief in the claim of our Church being led by "the only true living prophet of God".

Why doesn't the Church show confidence and lead, support or promote this as our defining strength and difference. Why doesn't President Monson portray himself as such in public?

I've got a very good idea of where you are going with this.

[zerinus]

Why doesn't the Church show confidence and lead, support or promote this as our defining strength and difference.  Why doesn't President Monson portray himself as such in public?

Okay, I have two questions for you: (1) How do you think President Monson should go about doing that? (2) What if he doesn't? What are you going to do about it that he doesn't?

Edited April 11, 2012 by zerinus

[volgadon]

It sounds like "bob" wants to get the church into one of two scenarios.

1) Big media and popular focus on the prophet, with pressure to prophesy. When the prophet fails to prophesy on demand, or the way the crowd wants, like a puppy performing trained tricks, egg on the church's face. All is a sham!

2) The church doesn't go for that, ergo it doesn't truly believe that there is such a thing as living prophets. All is a sham!