rameumptom Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm giving a seminar at the Sunstone Kirtland Symposium next month (Mar 10-11). My theme is: The Book of Mormon as an Ascension Text.I have several things already going in my seminar, but thought I'd send this out to see if someone may have some ideas I'm not already aware of.For instance, I will be comparing Lehi's visions in 1 Ne 1 to the Ascension of Isaiah. What other suggestions do you have relating to ascension/theophany/theosis that would be something to consider?
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Hm. Okay. Idea number 1. I've always been struck by how Moroni and Mormon discuss their faith (religion, church, etc). It comes across to me as a "modern-ish" development of the previous Nephite church. Not hugely, but just like the difference between, say, inter and intra dialogues that exist in today's Church and world versus what would be discussed and how, back in the 1800s. Of course, add to this the fact that Mormon and Moroni are the ones who determined what "previous" material would be present (included). I'm not sure if I can (yet) call this "development" (a greater clarity, perhaps, in understanding the faith) a full-blown ascension structure in the text. But, as you know, Mormon went on and on about charity which, as you know also, is the final ascension (as we know it), so there is something there. So it might be helpful to see the entire map in the Book of Mormon. For example, if the ENTIRE story of Lehi and his family IS ME (i.e. my "Laman" choices and my "Nephi" choices), then what does this tell me about the initial stages of transformation? If the descriptions of war and defense in Alma IS ME then what does this tell me about that stage (post-Lehi story stage) of ascension? Then the visitation of the Savior? If this experience of transformation of the Nephite society is a template for MY EXPERIENCE at that stage, then how do I recognize that and participate actively? (or so)
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Idea number two. The Beatitudes; and the entire Sermon on the Mount (which is reproduced in the Book of Mormon) is an ascension text.
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Idea number three. Ether, particularly chapter 3, but leading up to it and post, is akin to an ascension text, i.e. the full revelation of God (which I am not yet sure is exactly the same thing as ascension or not, still figuring that out, but close enough either way).
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Idea number four. King Benjamin's address. A partial ascension text. A transformation resulting in sanctification (one stage of ascension, and not one to sneeze at since most of us do all we can just to manage that and fall far short).
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Question is . . . where in the Book of Mormon, where does it not present ascension, to those with discerning eyes, heart and/or keys?
Nevo Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Question is . . . where in the Book of Mormon, where does it not present ascension, to those with discerning eyes, heart and/or keys?How many people ascend to the highest heaven in the Book of Mormon? I can only think of one: Jesus. Lehi has a vision of God on his throne (1 Nephi 1:8–15) and Nephi is taken up to an exceedingly high mountain (1 Nephi 11:1ff.) but I'm not sure that either account could be classified as an ascension text. King Benjamin's sermon and the Sermon at the Temple are not ascension texts as I understand the term. Edited February 16, 2012 by Nevo
volgadon Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 How many people ascend to the highest heaven in the Book of Mormon? I can only think of one: Jesus. Lehi has a vision of God on his throne (1 Nephi 1:8–15) and Nephi is taken up to an exceedingly high mountain (1 Nephi 11:1ff.) but I'm not sure that either account could be classified as an ascension text. King Benjamin's sermon and the Sermon at the Temple are not ascension texts as I understand the term.I think you are right. Lehi's vision is properly a throne theophany rather than ascension text, even though the latter often utilised the former.
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 How many people ascend to the highest heaven in the Book of Mormon? I can only think of one: Jesus. Lehi has a vision of God on his throne (1 Nephi 1:8–15) and Nephi is taken up to an exceedingly high mountain (1 Nephi 11:1ff.) but I'm not sure that either account could be classified as an ascension text. King Benjamin's sermon and the Sermon at the Temple are not ascension texts as I understand the term.None of which contradicts what I said, as I meant it and understand it.I agree with everything you say here except that the Sermon on the Mount is an ascension text. And in my understanding, the story of Jesus ascending into heaven is not the ascension I am understanding nor referring to nor hoping to experience in my life (except to use it as a template the same as I would use the Sermon on the Mount as a template).I am not a scholar. I can only speak as a person in the process of ascending and trying to get clues from the scriptures, temple and life on how to experience that (which is NOT some flight into the sky, as I understand it). So if my definition diverges from scholarship, I would expect it to, and would leave that to scholars defining ascension text literary-ily and would defer to you and them on those matters. I am finding ascension texts in terms of a template for experience.
DonBradley Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Ram,I agree that there is at least a hint, if not an actual description, of heavenly ascent in Lehi's vision. His being "carried away" in vision can be understood as his ascension to heaven.Nephi's being carried away to a mountain has much more than a hint of heavenly ascent and may be compared to Moses' remarkable heavenly ascent in Moses 1.The Brother of Jared's Christophany is not technically a heavenly ascent, since he ascends the mountain under his own power. But it smacks of heavenly ascent, and the visionary experience he receives in conjunction with it--that of seeing the whole world and all its history as God sees it--may have involved a heavenly ascent.Alma's conversion experience involves seeing God but his soul "longs to be there" with Him, suggesting that he is not spiritually transported to heaven. Still, it makes a nice parallel/contrast with the heavenly ascent. FWIW, although this is beyond your scope here, I would also suggest seeing Enoch's experiences in the Book of Moses as heavenly ascents, and seeing the Vision given to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon through the lens of heavenly ascent.Don
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I think my idea of ascension is different from other people's. I am assuming a permanent ascent. I think others are mostly thinking on a temporary ascent, like a one-time razzle dazzle thing. That is not what I am thinking of. When and if I ascend "to heaven" I am not coming back! So when I read ascent from the Book of Mormon, Old Testament, Book of Moses, etc, I am thinking of stages of transformation that permit a person to return to/become God/one with God. Now it may be a semantics problem, which is fine. Ascension = exaltation = overcoming, as I am learning presently as lived. So I apologize if that is not the same terminology for a literary/image structure present in sacred texts of all kinds.
Ron Beron Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Idea number two. The Beatitudes; and the entire Sermon on the Mount (which is reproduced in the Book of Mormon) is an ascension text.How so?
Ron Beron Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I think you are right. Lehi's vision is properly a throne theophany rather than ascension text, even though the latter often utilised the former.I have to agree, while the BofM does offer some example of ascent motifs it is hard to see some of these examples as such. My personal feelings is that the ascent motifs were evolved versions of the shamanic journey and as such usually found their way into ecstatic prophecy ( http://archaiologia.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/20/ ).
DonBradley Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Oh, Maidservant, I love your ideas here. Have you ever read Cathy Thomas's allegorical interpretation of the deliverance narratives in the Book of Mormon? Your approach reminds me of hers.Don
Calm Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I think my idea of ascension is different from other people's. I am assuming a permanent ascent.Celestial ascent motifs most often include (among other stuff) ascending to God, learning new knowledge and coming back to share it with others....thus not permanent. At least this is what I remember from the CA class I took from Dan and Bill. I missed the days dealing with the LDS versions unfortunately. (Ram) If you haven't checked with them yet, you should.Bill has some stuff online: https://docs.google....osbvQj0Iq6sayXgAn important characteristic of ancient Jewish and Christian religion that is relatedto the concept of the sôd of YHWH was the celestial ascent--when a human would ascendinto heaven, enter into the sôd of YHWH, receive revelation, and return to earth as God’smessenger or representative.MS, he also includes a list of biblical CAs and other texts you can find them in.Also for MS, Kerry did a nice Backyard Professor inspired by the class: http://www.backyardp...tial_ascen.htmlAlso notes from a fireside by Dan: http://www.templestu...rsons-fireside/ Edited February 16, 2012 by calmoriah
DonBradley Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Maidservant,As I understand it, the notion of heavenly ascent and that of deification are distinct but related. Thus, a journey of heavenly ascent may be part of a prophet's path of deification, or it may be seen as a prelude to or microcosm of the larger and more lasting journey of heavenly ascent which is exaltation or deification.Don
Bernard Gui Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Is this an ascension text?3 Nephite 27:13-1513 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you -- that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil --15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.Bernard
Calm Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) See 1 Enoch 24:4-6 (OTP 1:26). Note the extensive parallels between Enoch's vision of the Tree of Life and Nephi's vision in the Book of Mormon: The tree is most beautiful (1 Enoch 24:5 = 1 Nephi 8:10-11; 11: ; its fruit brings eternal life for the righteous (1 Enoch 25:5 = 1 Nephi 8:10-12); an angelic figure guides and explains the vision (2 Enoch 24:6 = 1 Nephi 11:2-3); and there is a valley near the tree representing hell (1 Enoch 26:3-6, 27:1-2 = 1 Nephi 8:13, 26; 12:16-17). On the Tree of Life in Paradise, see 2 Enoch 8:3; 3 Enoch 5. Gruenwald adds that "the Tree of Life could be the place on which God rests, and God's theophany on the Tree of Life is, thus, a counterpart to his theophanies in the Temple and on His Throne of Glory" (AMM, 50-51). There is also a possible relationship between Lehi's vision of the throne of God (see 1 Nephi 1:8, 14) and the tree of life (see 1 Nephi 8-14).http://www.faculty.u...20Mysticism.htmIIRC, this is a topic that has been explored by Dan McClellan, Joseph Antley and David Bokovoy on the board from time to time so I would contact them if you haven't already as well.Found this thread: Edited February 16, 2012 by calmoriah
rameumptom Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 First, Sunstone will be videotaping it, so it will be available later.The ascension is a rite that is closely tied to the temple. Since Lehi and Nephi did not have a temple (as with Moses pre-Tabernacle), their ascension rite would more likely take place in a wilderness or mountain setting. That LDS practice an ascension in the temple with the recognition that it is a temporary experience that will eventually lead to a permanent ascension is an important consideration in this.While theophany does not equal ascension, they are very related and often connected, and so I will probably be overlapping some in my discussion. For example Lehi did not ascend to God's throne, but did have a theophany in the same sense that Jacob/Israel saw God at the top of the staircase/ladder, but did not ascend. Still, the concept of ascending/descending is shown by angels (and the Savior for Lehi) ascending/descending from God's presence.Jacob and King Benjamin speaking before the temple are temple/ascension texts, as is the discourse of the Savior to the Nephites. Here again, there is no ascension, but rather the Lord descending to the people. And he teaches them the patterns to return to God's throne. Explaining that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, and we must be one in order to return to them is a perfect part of this consideration. Also, that the way to become one is through faith, repentance, baptism/ordinances, Gift of the Holy Ghost is also an ascension as we enter into the presence of the third member of the Godhead.One key component that ties throughout the Book of Mormon is the concept of Land of Promise. When one is worthy, he is metaphorically in the presence of God, while the disobedient (e.g.; Laman) are cut off from the presence of the Lord. This also goes forward into the destruction of the Nephites and the Mormon/Moroni themes at the end of the book.BTW, I will be speaking at the Sunstone Kirtland Symposium, March 10-11. If you are interested in attending, registration is now open at this site: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/symposium/Yes, some of you may consider Sunstone the enemy, but we can only make it better by employing quality research where we can. Since I can't rely on anyone else, they have to accept my level of quality!
rameumptom Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Is this an ascension text?3 Nephite 27:13-15BernardYes, Jesus' entire sermon is focused on bringing us back to the presence of God and being one with Him.
wenglund Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Do you, like me, view the ordinances of baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit as an ascension rituals?Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited February 16, 2012 by wenglund
rameumptom Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Wade,Yes, I do. The baptism represents descending into hell and death, with receiving the Holy Ghost as an ascension into the presence of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead. The BoM teaches (cf 2 Ne 30-32) that we are cut off from God's presence and the gateway back is baptism and the HG.And not only the ordinances, but the principles of the gospel (faith & repentance/ faith, hope & charity) also are forms of ascension as well. One key item in many ascension stories is to change clothing from one's earthly clothing to a celestial garment. This is very representative of our inner spirituality. Repentance symbolizes the change we make, just as we physically dress in white for baptism/temple.
Maidservant Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 How so?If you are asking me "How so?" in terms of the definition of an ascension text that I have been corrected on here in the thread, then the answer is . . . it isn't.However, the Sermon on the Mount is carefully crafted to lead the liver/experiencer through progression. It is not just a hodge podge collection of things on Jesus' mind. One begins in 3 Ne 12:21 and completes in the discussion in 3 Ne 14 (which is to be understood altogether). Also the Beatitudes have the progression in a thumbnail version, and actually are a little stronger "progression-ish" than the entire Sermon.Oh, Maidservant, I love your ideas here. Have you ever read Cathy Thomas's allegorical interpretation of the deliverance narratives in the Book of Mormon? Your approach reminds me of hers.DonThanks, Don . Hm, these days I rarely read anything BUT the scriptures. When I do, I'm crawling through Jerry Bradshaw's In His Image and Likeness. But I am googling Sis. Thomas as we speak and found something to read, thanks. Whatever she has to say, I do love this, right in Chapter 1 of the whole Book of Mormon, Nephi says plainly of what he is about in writing anything he writes: "But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance."Maidservant,As I understand it, the notion of heavenly ascent and that of deification are distinct but related. Thus, a journey of heavenly ascent may be part of a prophet's path of deification, or it may be seen as a prelude to or microcosm of the larger and more lasting journey of heavenly ascent which is exaltation or deification.DonThe ascension is a rite that is closely tied to the temple. . . . .That LDS practice an ascension in the temple with the recognition that it is a temporary experience that will eventually lead to a permanent ascension is an important consideration in this. Okay, cool. I now realize what people are referring to, and I guess I will continue to emphasize the permanent part in my personal study as a personal disciple. I have no desire whatsoever to experience a "rite" as such just for kicks (not that this was the reason others had this experience, I'm sure it is all sincere and important, since it is provided by Heavenly Father in cases). Earth life is enough "rite" for me, ha ha, and I just want to go Home. I think I also vaguely borrowed concepts from the Egyptian religion, and ascension there (which I am not an expert by any means). Ascension for me is another word for progression evoking a sense of rising and also going along with the Descent also that is needed (Fall, Wilderness, Exodus) (descent, ascent), with a culmination of me (and all of us), again, getting Home. the concept of Land of Promise. Definitely, which the Exodus through the Wilderness comes previous to and leads to the Promised Land.The baptism represents descending into hell and death Yes. It presents both descent and ascent. You go down into the water . . . but then you also come back up. There is a LOT to be 'found' in the format of the baptismal rite.I should say that I have been writing quite a bit on Ascension these days, it's my focus at the moment, so lovely thread .
wenglund Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Wade,Yes, I do. The baptism represents descending into hell and death, with receiving the Holy Ghost as an ascension into the presence of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead. The BoM teaches (cf 2 Ne 30-32) that we are cut off from God's presence and the gateway back is baptism and the HG.And not only the ordinances, but the principles of the gospel (faith & repentance/ faith, hope & charity) also are forms of ascension as well. One key item in many ascension stories is to change clothing from one's earthly clothing to a celestial garment. This is very representative of our inner spirituality. Repentance symbolizes the change we make, just as we physically dress in white for baptism/temple.Fantastic. I view the ordinance of baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost as variations on the washing and anointing theme, which has long been a key element in coronation/deification rites throughout the ages. (Please see these threads: HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE)And, in addition to the salient points you have made, I propose that these two ordinance are an emblem of one's ascension to deity by virtue of our being born of God (we are thereby made spiritually his offspring, and are of his nature, and made able to become even as he is) and by taking upon us the name of them in whose name the ordinances are performed (the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). Through those ordinance we are given the divine name of Christ/God, and are made heirs of all that is God's. (see: 3 Ne. 11)Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited February 16, 2012 by wenglund
Recommended Posts