Context Matters

[Pahoran]

I've been asked by one of the moderators to provide the context for my current sig, on the basis that someone has complained that removing the context makes the source of the quote look bad. I am happy to comply.

In December 2011, Time published a photo essay on its Lightbox site, called "Happy Valley." This collection of rather ordinary photographs prompted a short thread in this forum.

In the "Comments" section, of the article, Dan Peterson committed the unforgivable sin of posting a comment to the effect that he didn't think the photos and their captions were especially praiseworthy.

In response, a large contingent of the anti-Dan herd came stampeding out of Shades' Sty to add their comments. None of them went to the quality of the photos or the accuracy of the captions and accompanying article; their exclusive focus was railing personal attacks upon Dan Peterson.

Will Schryver made a post in support of Dan, whereupon several denizens of the sty responded. Again, they addressed nothing in his post, but merely repeated Ms Jack's spiteful accusations against him. At least one directly linked to Ms Jack's character assassination post on the Sty. I'm sure she must be immensely proud to see how successful her smear campaign has been.

At one point Aaron Shafavaloff posted a bunch of smug, snide and hostile opinions about the Church. As there was little substance to those opinions, Dan evidently thought the best approach was to let readers know where Aaron was coming from, so he posted:

Aaron Shaf is a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. Just so readers know.

In response to this, Kevin Graham rejoined:

Daniel Peterson is an employee of and dogmatic apologist for the Mormon Church and a full-time professional anti-truth propagandist.

Question: Who thinks the context changes Graham's attempt at poisoning the well to anything other than what it really was?

Let's break it down, point by point:

"Daniel Peterson is an employee of ... the Mormon Church." This is not true. Dan is an employee of BYU, which merely happens to be owned by the Church. However, extending more charity to Graham in a single post than Graham extends to Dan in an average year, we shall say this is a mere over-simplification, and acceptable for an ad-hoc comment.

"Daniel Peterson is ... dogmatic apologist for the Mormon Church." This is a matter of mere opinion. I do not know what function the "dogmatic" is supposed to serve, except to perform as some kind of pejorative. Since I know nobody more dogmatic than Graham, I am inclined to make some observation about pots and kettles.

"Daniel Peterson is ... a full-time professional anti-truth propagandist." This statement makes assertions Graham knows to be false. As Graham knows perfectly well, Dan is a "full-time professional" professor of Arabic and Islamic studies. As Graham knows perfectly well, Dan's LDS apologetic activities are undertaken in his own time, at his own initiative, and are mostly uncompensated. As Graham knows perfectly well, Dan is defending what he strongly believes to be true; calling him "anti-truth" is utterly malicious.

Thus it is that Graham's gratuitous swipe at Dan was a deliberate attempt to poison the well against him, and was as dishonest as it was nasty.

From time to time we are treated to the rather degrading spectacle of people, including moderators, sucking up to Graham and saying things like, "There there. We know you're being all sweetness and light, but some people here aren't willing to let go of your history." All I can say to that is that if this is Graham's history, then it is history in the making. He continues to be as spiteful as possible at every opportunity. This quote shows the real face of Kevin Graham, and it's not the one he prefers to show here.

Now it also happens that another of the moderators has asked me to change my sig. Evidently, what Kevin can't refute, he prefers to censor.

I am therefore about to change my signature. But I wish to state, for the record, that I'm not changing it because there's anything wrong with it; I'm changing it because it shows Graham in his true colours, and he doesn't like that much.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Thinking]

If I can change my sig, you can change yours.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am therefore about to change my signature. But I wish to state, for the record, that I'm not changing it because there's anything wrong with it; I'm changing it because it shows Graham in his true colours, and he doesn't like that much.

Regards,

Pahoran

For sure. Thanks for the back story, though it is nothing I did not already know, context is important and I am betting that some people don't know the whole story.

[Mark Beesley]

Perhaps the moderators are simply interested in promoting civil discourse on topics of interest and want to minimize unnecessary personal barbs that are too easily loosed without regard to who they hit, and without appreciations that the targets (intended or othewise) are children of our Heavenly Father.

[Rob Bowman]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

At one point Aaron Shafavaloff posted a bunch of smug, snide and hostile opinions about the Church. As there was little substance to those opinions, Dan evidently thought the best approach was to let readers know where Aaron was coming from, so he posted:

Aaron Shaf is a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. Just so readers know.

I was not aware of the discussion you mention here. However, for the record -- "just so readers know" -- Aaron Shafavaloff is not a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. He is a full-time professional, but at a different, non-religious profession. His pursuits with regard to Mormonism are his avocation, not his profession.

[Mark Beesley]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

I was not aware of the discussion you mention here. However, for the record -- "just so readers know" -- Aaron Shafavaloff is not a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. He is a full-time professional, but at a different, non-religious profession. His pursuits with regard to Mormonism are his avocation, not his profession.

What does Aaron do professionally? I was under the impression from past interactions with him that he was enaged professionally in ecclesiasitcal pursuits.

[Rob Bowman]

Mark,

I don't feel at liberty to talk about the specifics of Aaron's personal life without his permission, but it is not ecclesiastical or religious, but technical.

What does Aaron do professionally? I was under the impression from past interactions with him that he was enaged professionally in ecclesiasitcal pursuits.

[Pahoran]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

I was not aware of the discussion you mention here. However, for the record -- "just so readers know" -- Aaron Shafavaloff is not a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. He is a full-time professional, but at a different, non-religious profession. His pursuits with regard to Mormonism are his avocation, not his profession.

Yes, I believe Dan may have been mistaken in concluding that the amount of time Shaf spends attacking the Church of Jesus Christ is evidence that that is his profession. Apparently he makes his money in IT; anti-Mormonism is merely his obsession.

Either way, it is valid for anyone encountering his opinions for the first time to know that his view of the Church of Jesus Christ is approximately comparable to Yasser Arafat's view of Israel.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mark Beesley]

Mark,

I don't feel at liberty to talk about the specifics of Aaron's personal life without his permission, but it is not ecclesiastical or religious, but technical.

Isn't he on the payroll of Mormon Research Ministries as a web devoloper, and isn't that information available on the web? Why the secrecy?

[Rob Bowman]

Mark,

Aaron performs web development work for MRM, but that is a side activity, not his full-time job. I don't know any more details than that.

Isn't he on the payroll of Mormon Research Ministries as a web devoloper, and isn't that information available on the web? Why the secrecy?

[Rob Bowman]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

Either way, it is valid for anyone encountering his opinions for the first time to know that his view of the Church of Jesus Christ is approximately comparable to Yasser Arafat's view of Israel.

You don't make Mormonism more credible by making such inflammatory false statements about its critics.

[Mark Beesley]

Mark,

Aaron performs web development work for MRM, but that is a side activity, not his full-time job. I don't know any more details than that.

From http://blog.mrm.org/author/aaron-shafovaloff/, "Aaron is a computer programmer in Salt Lake City and a part-time evangelist and web developer for various ministries. He is a research associate with the folks at Mormonism Research Ministry."

Depending on the amount of time he is spending, for-pay, developing web content for ministries that LDS consider to be anti-Mormon, Aaron's characterization by Dr. Peterson as a professional anti-Mormon may very well have been accurate, though unduly inflammatory.

[sethpayne]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

I was not aware of the discussion you mention here. However, for the record -- "just so readers know" -- Aaron Shafavaloff is not a full-time professional evangelical anti-Mormon. He is a full-time professional, but at a different, non-religious profession. His pursuits with regard to Mormonism are his avocation, not his profession.

And..... while I disagree with 99% of what AS says, he does seem to be a sincere and truly nice guy.

[Pahoran]

Pahoran,

You wrote:

You don't make Mormonism more credible by making such inflammatory false statements about its critics.

I'll keep that in mind if ever I'm tempted to make an inflammatory false statement about any of the Church's critics.

The fact is that I have had a number of interactions with Aaron Shafavaloff. I have found him to be a hater and a fanatic. He crashes LDS public events, spouting his hate propaganda. He vilifies the Church and its leaders on the internet and elsewhere. He drums up deliberately deceitful mischaracterisations of LDS teachings, then ambushes unwary Mormons with them.

If there is a "respectable" end of the anti-Mormon spectrum, I would expect to see clear daylight between it and him.

Just so you know.

Regards,

Pahoran

[zerinus]

If I can change my sig, you can change yours.

I can't change my sig. It keeps telling me that I am not allowed to have more than 6 lines in my sig. It is less than 6 lines; but I want to give it some formatting, and it apparently takes the HTML tags to be extra lines, therefore it won't let me change my sig.

[sethpayne]

Either way, it is valid for anyone encountering his opinions for the first time to know that his view of the Church of Jesus Christ is approximately comparable to Yasser Arafat's view of Israel.

Regards,

Pahoran

This statement is absolutely out of line. To compare evangelical anti-Mormons to a know terror organization that kills innocent women and children, is incredibly offensive. You are essentially claiming that anti-Mormon evangelicals are in favor of genocide -- against Mormons.

When someone launches a missle from the SBC into Temple Square then, and only then, should we possibly mention Yassar Arafat's genocidal views of Israel and anti-Mormonism in the same sentence.

[sethpayne]

The fact is that I have had a number of interactions with Aaron Shafavaloff. I have found him to be a hater and a fanatic. He crashes LDS public events, spouting his hate propaganda. He vilifies the Church and its leaders on the internet and elsewhere. He drums up deliberately deceitful mischaracterisations of LDS teachings, then ambushes unwary Mormons with them.

Just so you know.

Regards,

Pahoran

Yep. AS' anti-Mormon ministry = Genocidal anti-Semitism.

Right.

[Pahoran]

This statement is absolutely out of line. To compare evangelical anti-Mormons to a know terror organization that kills innocent women and children, is incredibly offensive. You are essentially claiming that anti-Mormon evangelicals are in favor of genocide -- against Mormons.

When someone launches a missle from the SBC into Temple Square then, and only then, should we possibly mention Yassar Arafat's genocidal views of Israel and anti-Mormonism in the same sentence.

Seth, your opinion is noted. Your arrogance in presuming to board-nanny me in my own thread is likewise noted.

Arafat ultimately made peace (of sorts) with Israel. But he regularly quoted from the anti-Semitic classic, Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Like Shafavaloff, he was grudgingly prepared to accept the fact that the target of his bigotry existed and wasn't about to go away. But like Shafavaloff, he never stopped hoping it would.

And like Shafavaloff, he never stopped propagandising against it.

But I suppose you are right in one important contrast: unlike Shafavaloff, Arafat had the courage of his prejudices.

But I don't expect you to be offended by the Shafavaloffs of this world. After all, it's not as if they are attacking anything you value.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Peppermint Patty]

Pahoran,

Why not use this as an opportunity to find a new, fun and witty sig line? Here are my suggestions for your new sig line:

-I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers;

-The box said 'Requires Windows XP or better'. So I installed LINUX (this is for all the computer nerds out there);

-Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad; and

-I'm glad I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial dork wads.

[Pahoran]

Pahoran,

Why not use this as an opportunity to find a new, fun and witty sig line? Here are my suggestions for your new sig line:

-I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers;

-The box said 'Requires Windows XP or better'. So I installed LINUX (this is for all the computer nerds out there);

-Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad; and

-I'm glad I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial dork wads.

All of which are fun and worthy of a good chuckle. But I'm waiting for the right quote to come along.

Personally I'm rather partial to "We will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high."

Regards,

Pahoran

[Peppermint Patty]

Personally I'm rather partial to "We will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high."

If you are not going to use that sig line, I just might borrow it.

[sethpayne]

Seth, your opinion is noted. Your arrogance in presuming to board-nanny me in my own thread is likewise noted.

I'm not board-nannying you at all. If anything I'm commenting on you as a person. On or off the board

But I don't expect you to be offended by the Shafavaloffs of this world. After all, it's not as if they are attacking anything you value.

Regards,

Pahoran

$10 says my home teaching % was higher than yours last year.

You know what happens when you assume, RM.

Edited February 1, 2012 by sethpayne

[Lightbearer]

Yep. AS' anti-Mormon ministry = Genocidal anti-Semitism.

Right.

Which is worse, a murderer of mortal life or a murderer of eternal life?

[Pahoran]

I'm not board-nannying you at all. If anything I'm commenting on you as a person. On or off the board

Kindly confine yourself to commenting on the content of the posts in this thread, or feel free to remove yourself therefrom.

Regards,

Pahoran

[sethpayne]

Which is worse, a murderer of mortal life or a murderer of eternal life?

And we have a vote for AS/anti-Mormonism > genocidal anti-Semitism.