Return Of The Cross

[Buckeye]

The February 2012 Friend has a very cool cover design featuring a cross. Yes, its the "Southern Cross" constellation, not a physical ornament, but its still very prominent on the page. In fact, the child pointing to the cross makes it the focus. So next time you are asked why Mormons don't have crosses, you can say "we do!"

http://www.lds.org/friend/2012/02?lang=eng

[Cobalt-70]

I don't know if you intended for the OP topic to head in this direction, but why shouldn't Mormons be happy to use the cross as a symbol? I don't know when the anti-cross tradition got started, but I understand that the main modern rationale is that we focus on Jesus' resurrection rather than his death, or we focus on Gethsemane rather than Calvary. But that's not to say that Jesus' death and sacrifice on the cross is not important within Mormonism. Wouldn't it go a long way toward convincing Evangelicals that we are Christian if we used the cross more? Evangelicals are big on symbolism, which is why they have hissy fits whenever you try to remove the Ten Commandments, the Baby Jesus, or other declarations of Christian faith from U.S. government property. (Ironically, Evangelicals focus on the resurrected Jesus rather than the dead Jesus, too.)

[altersteve]

I read an article once about how a Catholic girl moved to Utah and found a lot in common with the Mormons there. She showed one of her new LDS friends her crucifix necklace, and got this absolutely disgusting response: "If your brother was shot, would you keep the bullet that killed him around your neck?"

This clearly tells me how little Latter-day Saints understand the cross. I have a friend who wears a cross around her neck (and she's LDS). My LDS parents were also given a small statue of a cross with John 3:16 engraved on it as a gift which they display proudly in their living room. And I find the symbol of the cross to be a very beautiful symbol that reminds me of what the Savior did for me, so I take it seriously. Latter-day Saints who mock those who use it clearly don't understand the symbolism behind it.

[mfbukowski]

Our own Mike Reed has a book coming out on this topic

I will post a link when I find a good one

Edit:- Well I am not finding much because I guess they don't want to steal the book's thunder, but this is a start:

http://contrarianmormon.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/mormons-and-the-cross/

I am sure Mike will show up soon

Edited February 1, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Mike Reed]

The February 2012 Friend has a very cool cover design featuring a cross. Yes, its the "Southern Cross" constellation, not a physical ornament, but its still very prominent on the page. In fact, the child pointing to the cross makes it the focus. So next time you are asked why Mormons don't have crosses, you can say "we do!"

http://www.lds.org/f...012/02?lang=eng

Wow. This is fantastic! There is a good chance that the powers-that-be are testing the "cultural waters" with this cover. So if you appreciate seeing this in the friend, let them know. The more positive feedback they get, the more likely this will hapen again. You can give your feedback at the following link:

http://www.lds.org/t...Friend&id=11340

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[Mike Reed]

Our own Mike Reed has a book coming out on this topic

I will post a link when I find a good one

Edit:- Well I am not finding much because I guess they don't want to steal the book's thunder, but this is a start:

http://contrarianmor...-and-the-cross/

I am sure Mike will show up soon

Thanks mfbukouski. If anyone is interested, here are the two newspaper articles on my research:

SL Tribune (unfortunately, the "stolen cross" story got a little mixed up here--my mother never knew it was stolen)

Deseret News' Mormon Times (Mike DeGroote did a great synopsis of my Sunstone presentation, and even published 5 of the images I had presented during my session. There are many many more that will appear in my book)

I received my final galleys last week with all the pictures set. After one last proof-read, all that will be left to do is create the index and send it to print.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[Sky]

Found a good article on the Church's website about this. Enjoy.

The Meaning of the Cross for Latter-day Saints

[Mike Reed]

I don't know when the anti-cross tradition got started....

This is what my book is all about. It emerged at the grass roots level around the the turn of the 20th century, but wasn't institutionalized until 1957.

Stay tuned...

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[mfbukowski]

I asked a member of my family- who is unfamiliar with our discussions or the cross issues- about what she thought of the Friend cover with the Southern cross.

I said "What do you think of this cover?" She said "What- I don't know- a family looking at the stars- so what?"

"What shape are the stars in?" said I.

"Uh- I don't know- a diamond shape I guess. Like a kite or something?"

I said "It's the Southern Cross".

"Uh- ok- so ?"

This all may be a bit less revolutionary than we think.

[Mike Reed]

I asked a member of my family- who is unfamiliar with our discussions or the cross issues- about what she thought of the Friend cover with the Southern cross.

I said "What do you think of this cover?" She said "What- I don't know- a family looking at the stars- so what?"

"What shape are the stars in?" said I.

"Uh- I don't know- a diamond shape I guess. Like a kite or something?"

I said "It's the Southern Cross".

"Uh- ok- so ?"

This all may be a bit less revolutionary than we think.

But did you show her the image on the back cover?

Source.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[mfbukowski]

Now THAT is cool!! And a clear change!

[Mike Reed]

Now THAT is cool!! And a clear change!

Thanks. But of course, I was joking about it being on the back cover. I designed it for my friend's facbook group. Might make a good t-shirt logo.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[mfbukowski]

Thanks. I designed it for my friend's facbook group. Might make a good t-shirt logo.

But that IS the actual back cover?

Edit: Dang- you faked me out!

Edited February 1, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Mike Reed]

But that IS the actual back cover?

Edit: Dang- you faked me out!

lol!

[why me]

I read an article once about how a Catholic girl moved to Utah and found a lot in common with the Mormons there. She showed one of her new LDS friends her crucifix necklace, and got this absolutely disgusting response: "If your brother was shot, would you keep the bullet that killed him around your neck?"

This clearly tells me how little Latter-day Saints understand the cross. I have a friend who wears a cross around her neck (and she's LDS). My LDS parents were also given a small statue of a cross with John 3:16 engraved on it as a gift which they display proudly in their living room. And I find the symbol of the cross to be a very beautiful symbol that reminds me of what the Savior did for me, so I take it seriously. Latter-day Saints who mock those who use it clearly don't understand the symbolism behind it.

I think that many find Christ being worn on a cross to be over the top. It can give a connotation of death and suffering. Which of course would be true. However, for catholics it becomes a cultural symbol too and one of faith. Also, the lds girl was not taught to respond to the cross in the way that she did. Kids are kids and they may not take into account religious cultural norms.

[why me]

But did you show her the image on the back cover?

Source.

That is actually a nice symbol. And it would look great for a protestant or catholic symbol for choosing the right.

[mfbukowski]

Crucifixes are one thing, crosses are another. I don't think Protestants use crucifixes do they? (except Episcopalians/ Anglicans- and they are more Catholic than Catholics lately)

[Storm Rider]

My sister-in-law has a large collection of crosses she displays in her home. They are all sizes, pretty heavy on the Mexican style, and all wonderful. I don't think I would ever wear a cross, but I can see having them in my home. I even appreciate a crucifix, but then I admit that I enjoy a great deal of Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

I have no problem and strongly support the Church's efforts to declare our witness of Jesus Christ and that we are his disciples; however, I am not really keen on adapting all the trappings of other churches and their culture.

[why me]

Catholics have both the cross and the crucifix but most have the crucifix in their homes, especially in the bedroom above their bed. At least this is how it was in the old days. Protestants do use the cross but not the crucifix in general.

[Buckeye]

I asked a member of my family- who is unfamiliar with our discussions or the cross issues- about what she thought of the Friend cover with the Southern cross.

I said "What do you think of this cover?" She said "What- I don't know- a family looking at the stars- so what?"

"What shape are the stars in?" said I.

"Uh- I don't know- a diamond shape I guess. Like a kite or something?"

I said "It's the Southern Cross".

"Uh- ok- so ?"

This all may be a bit less revolutionary than we think.

Similar experience with my wife. I found the cross to be quite striking and important. She just started to hum Crosby Stills & Nash. Awsome song, BTW. We also used the Friend cover in our FHE to discuss the meaning of the cross with the children and how someday they might be able to see the constellation if they are called as missionaries to the southern hemisphere.

I don't think the cover is itself revolutionary, but it is a good sign. Kind of like the first Robin in spring.

[mfbukowski]

When I first joined the church, I thought it was weird we didn't have crosses and couldn't really understand all the explanations about why we didn't have them.

I thought then, and still do, that all this stuff about us not being "Christian" would mostly disappear if we had never done away with crosses on chapels etc.

It would definitely make us more "mainstream" if we brought them back. But I guess that is both the good news and the bad news. Do we want to be more "mainstream"? I for one am tired of all the discussion as to whether or not we are "Christians" according to creedal Christians. I really don't care what they think at this point- we are what we are. Get over it.

So on one hand it would be nice to see crosses come back- but if it means giving up one iota of our principles, forget it.

[Mike Reed]

It would definitely make us more "mainstream" if we brought them back. But I guess that is both the good news and the bad news. Do we want to be more "mainstream"? I for one am tired of all the discussion as to whether or not we are "Christians" according to creedal Christians. I really don't care what they think at this point- we are what we are. Get over it.

Agreed. My main concern about the cultural taboo is that new members often feel persuaded to discard, pack away, or hide the symbol that was once very special to them. This can be especially disheartening when the controversy involves an heirloom.

As you may know... many missionaries used to ask converts to remove Catholics images from homes, including crosses. A friend shared with me a mission story. He and his companion asked an investigator if they could have a home-made paper cross hung on the wall. The ivestigator gave the paper cross to them, perhaps thinking they liked it, and the missionaries returned to their apartment they tore it to pieces in disgust. Looking back today, my friend terribly regrets ever doing such a thing.

A Baptist pastor wrote a letter to the administration of an Indiana elementary school predominately attended by Latter-day Saints. “Several times this new school year,” the Pastor reported regarding his first-grade daughter, “as well as a time or two last year, she has experienced some difficulties because on occasion she wears a cross necklace to school…. ome children in her class have told her that it is bad to wear the cross. One child even said that he hated the cross and that she should take it off.” On a different occasion, an LDS elementary school teacher flipped a crucifix worn by a little girl, “asking her why she was wearing dead bodies on her.”

At my own grandfather's funeral, the Relief Society president was worried about a "cross" floral arrangement that was donated by a nonmember. She didn't know how to tell the person that they (so she assumed) could not display crosses in the chapel. Fortunately, my mother and a couple other wardmembers (who were aware of my research on the cross taboo) convinced her that it wasn't a problem

In the early months of my mission, my companion and I were teaching an investigator who was seriously considering the possibility of joining the Church. We encouraged him to read the Book of Mormon and seek the Lord’s guidance through prayer, and on the following week, with tears in his eyes he enthusiastically told us that he had received an answer from God to join: the night before he saw in a dream a cross of flames, which as a convert from Catholicism, made complete sense to him, but as a Mormon missionary I was very confused. Unsure how to respond, all I could think to do was raise my eyebrows and asked him, “Will you be baptized?” I was happy that he accepted the invitation, however, I remained disturbed over the idea that God would answer prayer with an apostate sign in order to lead someone toward the Church. “What do you think about Gabriel’s dream?” I asked my companion; to which he replied, “I don’t know Elder?” My companion seemed to be as confused as I was.

On a lighter note, a certain group of LDS young women arrived to girl’s camp and were shocked to find within their tent crude wooden crosses displayed above each of the cots. Having identified the crosses as “symbols of the Great Whore of Babylon,” the adult counselors instructed the young girls to cut all of them down with their pocketknives, and asked the presiding priesthood leader to bless the tent. Later did they learn that they had actually cut down the frames for hanging mosquito netting. Oops! Must've been a very itchy week for them.

None of these examples are mentioned in my book, but I think they illustrate well the unnecessary conflict that can come from the taboo.

So on one hand it would be nice to see crosses come back- but if it means giving up one iota of our principles, forget it.

The good news is that no principles need to be given up. The only thing that the Church will need to give up (or swallow), perhaps, is a little pride--a relatively small price to pay in the long run, if you ask me.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[Pahoran]

Wow. This is fantastic! There is a good chance that the powers-that-be are testing the "cultural waters" with this cover.

Oh, of course. Like Mitt Romney's candidacy, it must be part of the Church's "eternal plan." It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the Southern Cross is prominently visible in the sky in the Southern Hemisphere, and is featured on the flags of several SH countries, could it?

Nah. That's much too simple. There must be something more to it; preferably something devious, but definitely something that some ark-steadier can point to and claim vindication.

Actually I am starting to wonder whether the drearily reliable "them Mormons must be up to something" meme has anything in common with the tendency to see the face of Jesus on a pizza.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mike Reed]

Huh?

I said "Chance" not "Must."

Leave it to Pahoran to turn my complementary optimism into an insult. Nice work, Pahoran. In a world of constant flux, it is nice to know that some things don't change.

For what it’s worth... I'll probably vote for Mitt Romney--at least in the primaries. But don't let that stop you from placing me in your nuanced-challenged polarized worldview, or from projecting your psychological profile upon me. Speaking of pizzas.

Aren't there windmills in other threads that you can joust, Quixote? I think I can hear a young maiden calling for help.

The terrible giants!... someone, help me... I need a hero!!! PLLLLEEEAAASSEEEE!!!

Did anyone hear that?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mike Reed

[mfbukowski]

What I found interesting about this Deseret News article was the shot of the Brigham City Tabernacle with Joseph F. Smith preaching at a funeral- yes there is a cross-shaped floral arrangement, but if you look on the curving "balcony seats" on either side of the stand, you will see crosses actually designed into the building as an architectural element.

Arguably those crosses are each made of 5 circles, both 5 and the circle itself being important early LDS symbols.

http://www.deseretne...-the-cross.html

Edited February 1, 2012 by mfbukowski