Is This Unmormon?

[inquiringmind]

D&C 88:41 says:

He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

Would it be unMormon to take this to mean that all things are created (or organized) out of God-stuff?

Intelligences (or spirits) out of Intelligence (the Light and Truth of God), and matter out of some other aspect of His being?

Edited January 6, 2012 by inquiringmind

[thesometimesaint]

That would be an unwarranted assumption. In LDS theology God, and all of us are eternal.

[Freedom]

of  [uhv, ov; unstressed uhv or, especially before consonants,uh]

preposition

1. (used to indicate distance or direction from, separation,deprivation, etc.): within a mile of the church; south of Omaha;to be robbed of one's money.

2.(used to indicate derivation, origin, orsource): a man of goodfamily; the plays of Shakespeare; a piece of cake.

3.(used to indicate cause, motive, occasion, or reason): to dieof hunger.

4.(used to indicate material, component parts, substance, orcontents): a dress of silk; an apartment of three rooms; a bookof poems; a package of cheese.

5.(used to indicate apposition or identity): Is that idiot of asalesman calling again?

The proper definition for this verse, I believe, is origin and cause, not substance.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Freedom

[inquiringmind]

That would be an unwarranted assumption. In LDS theology God, and all of us are eternal.

But is it official doctrine that all of us have an individual existence independent of God?

And if that's true, why would Nephi say "if there is no God, we are not...for there could be no creation of things, neither to act nor be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away." (2 Nephi 2:13.)

And why does it say here (in D&C 88::41) that "He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever"?

The proper definition for this verse, I believe, is origin and cause, not substance.

But if there are uncreated (individual) intelligences, He isn't their origin and cause, is He?

Edited January 6, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Freedom]

But is it official doctrine that all of us have an individual existence independent of God?

And if that's true, why would Nephi say "if there is no God, we are not...for there could be no creation of things, neither to act nor be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away." (2 Nephi 2:13.)

And why does it say here (in D&C 88::41) that "He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever"?

But if there are uncreated (individual) intelligences, He isn't their origin and cause, is He?

Dinner would not exist if my wife did not make it, this does not mean that she cut off her arm and fed it to us, it just means that she organized the matter to make it edible. He is the origin and cause of all in our frame of existence. It is LDS doctrine that there are other gods so he is not the good of everything, just the god of our concern.

[thesometimesaint]

InquiringMind:

If I bake a cake the cake didn't exist before I made it, but its constituant ingredients sure did. In LDS Theology we(our individual intelligence) constituant part has always existed.

[CV75]

And if that's true, why would Nephi say "if there is no God, we are not...for there could be no creation of things, neither to act nor be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away." (2 Nephi 2:13.)

I think this use of “creation” in verse 13 is limited to people, the earth, and “all things” in this temporal existence, which is borne out in verses 14 and 15.

It could be argued that the same principle applies to any other estate we may have found ourselves in, as we have always relied on God to provide us context, even if we always existed. Because if we are co-eternal and co-existing with God and He is not, then we are not, and if we are not, then He is not.

A new couplet!

[thesometimesaint]

I like it.

[The Nehor]

I think this is a description of the omnipresence of God.

[Mudcat]

D&C 88:41 says:

He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

Would it be unMormon to take this to mean that all things are created (or organized) out of God-stuff?

Intelligences (or spirits) out of Intelligence (the Light and Truth of God), and matter out of some other aspect of His being?

The bit I put in blue sounds a lot like panentheism.

I have flirted with this notion myself, albeit from an EV position. Creation from God (ek Theos) rather than from nothing (ex nihilo). This makes some sense, when you tandem such thinking with Scriptural statements that refer to God being omnipresent.

In the long run, I think it's more clearly understood that God is seperate and distinct from creation and though he may be present in all things.. the atoms of a particular rock or tree or something like that, for example. He is not the rock or the tree they are simply things he has created.

Just my 2