Leviticus 12 - Question

[baddonkey]

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.

5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

Why are women said here to be unclean for twice as long after bearing a female than after bearing a male? What was the Lord's purpose in making this specification? That women are more unclean than men in some way? Is there a practical reason for this? I can't make any sense of it.

[blackstrap]

answers to question # 1: hard to say

#2 : unknown

#3: perhaps

# 4: difficult to know

I hope these answers clarify your concerns.

PS . the whole business of uncleanness boggles my mind. Why wouldn't a good washing be sufficient?

[ldsfaqs]

There's likely more to it, but it's likely related to the fact that "blood" is what makes us Mortal, and woman was the one to originally partake of the fruit to make us mortal, thus there was/is likely a symbolic and DEEPER "purification" process required for woman than for man. After all the woman has the blood curse etc.

Putting yourself in their mindset in how they looked at things in relation to "ritual" and "purification" how blood was considered unclean is what's going on I would say.

[Rob Bowman]

I found this web page, Leviticus 12:5 Why are Girls Different than Boys? to be one of the more helpful treatments of this question.The crucial points are these: ritual uncleanness is not to be equated with sin, blame, or guilt; the Torah routinely treats males and females differently without teaching that females are worse than males; and the different periods of uncleanness may reflect to some extent real biological differences between the sexes.

[CV75]

Why are women said here to be unclean for twice as long after bearing a female than after bearing a male? What was the Lord's purpose in making this specification? That women are more unclean than men in some way? Is there a practical reason for this? I can't make any sense of it.

Perhaps it is symbolic of or a type for the atonement: Christ took sin upon Himself to bring the Father’s children into His kingdom (represented by women becoming unclean to bring forth children into the world); He suffers further as these children, now Saviors in Mount Zion, bring forth more children into His kingdom (represented by women suffering additional uncleanness for female children who will also suffer to bring forth more children into this world).

Also, with the male children suffering the wound of the circumcision on the eighth day, the mother's uncleanness is shortened by the remaining week, whereas the mother bears the full brunt of the non-covenant condition represented by the female children (the two full weeks). It may go back to Adam having kept the commandment (one week?) longer than Eve and then as priesthood holder having made subsequent covenants before she did. All symbolic of the atonement, priesthood, covenants, etc.; not that one sex is cleaner than the other in God's eyes.

[LeSellers]

The meaning of "unclean" is the key to understanding this passage (and a myriad of others).

Lehi

No, I'm not giving it to you. LS

[selek1]

Light-hearted and flippant answer removed in deference to the awesome response by Calmoriah, below.

Edited November 30, 2011 by selek1

[blackstrap]

There's likely more to it, but it's likely related to the fact that "blood" is what makes us Mortal, and woman was the one to originally partake of the fruit to make us mortal, thus there was/is likely a symbolic and DEEPER "purification" process required for woman than for man. After all the woman has the blood curse etc.

Putting yourself in their mindset in how they looked at things in relation to "ritual" and "purification" how blood was considered unclean is what's going on I would say.

After a couple of centuries of obedience to these cleanliness laws,would that not firmly establish women as second class creatures,unworthy to handle or participate in the holy rituals.Also,did these laws just reaffirm the superstitions of the day? Why would such laws not continue today in the restoration if there was such a deep symbolic nature to them?

[Calm]

This link states the reasons for purity laws are not given so any reasoning you find is likely speculation: http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm

Also interesting:

Sex is the woman's right, not the man's. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The Talmud specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband's occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the ketubah (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband's consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to divorce his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the halakhic obligation to procreate

[Calm]

This looks like a good resource....it's also available on kindle: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805210490/judaism101

[Calm]

Specific answer, definitely from the slant of attempting to elevate the status of women: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/510244/jewish/Ritual-purity-after-birth-of-males-and-females.htm

Why the difference in the laws of ritual purity between the birth of males and females?

By Chana Weisberg

Question:

My question is on the subject of cleanness of a mother after the birth of a male or female (Leviticus 12). The woman is unclean for seven days after a male birth, and after the birth of a female the mother is unclean for fourteen days. Why is there a difference between the birth of males and females?

Answer:

You write the word "cleanliness," when really it is "ritual purity." A woman's "impurity," or "tumah" in Hebrew, during her menstruation is a built-in component of her natural monthly cycle. Her status of "impurity" demonstrates her descent from a peak level of holiness, when she had the ability to conceive a precious new life through her union with her husband.

The status of "tumah" is not meant to imply sinfulness, degradation or inferiority. On the contrary, it emphasizes, in particular, the great level of holiness inherent in woman's G‑dly power to create and nurture a new life within her body, and the great holiness of a husband and wife's union, in general. Since a woman possesses this lofty potential, she, also bears the possibility of its void; hence her status as tameh, ritually impure. Since she experienced "the touch of death," so to speak, with the loss of potential life, as reflected by her menstruation, she enters this status of "impure."

After having given birth to a baby boy, a woman must wait a minimum of seven days before beginning her pure days; while after a baby girl is born, she must wait a minimum of fourteen days. Since the female child inherently carries a higher degree of holiness, due to her own biological, life creating capability, a greater void, or tumah, remains after her birth. Thus, the greater tumah after a baby girl's birth reflects her greater capacity for holiness (due to her creative powers) and necessitates the longer wait to remove this ritual impurity.

For more on this topic, see On the Essence of Ritual Impurity.

I hope this helps you.

Chana Weisberg for Chabad.org

Edited November 30, 2011 by calmoriah

[Calm]

More links: http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/1542/jewish/On-the-Essence-of-Ritual-Impurity.htm

This link presents a more historical and academic POV of ritual purity laws: http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/female-purity-niddah

It suggests that the additional seven days may be due to the not uncommon occurrence of a female infant having some uterine bleeding as a response to the withdrawal of her mother's hormones occurring some days after birth. Adding seven days covers the time period that having contact with her mother (through saliva) would render her mother impure.

BTW, this puts another nuance on the story of the woman with the abnormal "issue". She likely would have been in a state of perpetual uncleanness limiting her social contact for twelve years with others-men and women---- in extreme ways, much like a leper. She must have been desperate. Technically it would also have made Jesus ritually unclean.

Edited November 30, 2011 by calmoriah

[baddonkey]

It suggests that the additional seven days may be due to the not uncommon occurrence of a female infant having some uterine bleeding as a response to the withdrawal of her mother's hormones occurring some days after birth. Adding seven days covers the time period that having contact with her mother (through saliva) would render her mother impure.

That makes sense to me. Thanks calmoriah! I also enjoyed reading some of the other responses by CV75, Rob, etc. Thanks guys. Usually when I see a passage of scripture that is confusing to me it means there is something to be learned there.