Knowledge And Deification

[mfbukowski]

If you are familiar with Buddhist koans and related stories on meditating on them then you would also be familiar how many times the student comes forward with some brilliant idea only to be rebuffed by their teacher and sent back to ponder. It seems most require years to come to answers that are acceptable.

Oh man, what a set-up!

Come back in a few years and maybe I'll let you ask me again.

I'm still curious about how a person who is well along on the path would be recognizeable.

Well I have spent some time with some GA's and I have found them to be very kind, incredibly organized, able to instantly understand leadership issues and answer questions with great precision and wisdom, anticipate other questions which I have had, seemingly "out of the blue", and they also manifested a direct interest and love for each person they met, even me.

On one occasion, I was accompanied by an Area Authority 70 to give a blessing to a young man in a mental hospital. He was in his 20's. This kid had mental problems all his life and was having his medications adjusted, and was exhibiting psychotic behavior. He understood who I was, and understood that the man with me was one of my leaders, and though he wanted a blessing, continued to deliberately expose himself by pulling up his hospital gown.

To call it an "uncomfortable situation" would be a gross understatement. Yet the 70 acted with grace and kindness, much as you would with a little child, yet understanding that the person knew to some extent what he was doing, and on the other hand was not in full possession of his faculties. It's hard to describe.

We completed the blessing- he sealed the annointing and the young man was considerably calmer when we finished- the difference was clear. He had a complete recovery, and I never discussed what had happened with him- I don't know if he remembered what happened or not- he hasn't mentioned it.

But the 70 was totally unflappable during the whole situation, no comments, no looks, just calm reserve and complete control, and a loving, Christlike attitude.

I am not sure how I would have reacted if he had not been there, but his response was just exactly perfect.

Edited November 23, 2011 by mfbukowski

[wenglund]

If so, it seems reasonable that a person who had progressed along those lines might stand out in some way. I'm curious to hear yours, or others, thoughts on the specifics of this.

I would think that if anyone had progressed along those lines it would be Christ, and yet I don't know that he stood out. In fact, it was said that he was without honor in his own country.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited November 23, 2011 by wenglund

[Honorentheos]

Someone who is well along the way would radiate that in their bearing towards others. Some people truly are Christlike.

Hi Volgadon.

I suspect that would be the case, and it brought to mind two references.

The first is the last chapter of James Allen's "As a Man Thinketh" - Serenity.

The second come from some of the last public remarks of Marvin J. Ashton given in a talk from 1992 that stuck with me long after I heard it during that conference -

During an informal fireside address held with a group of adult Latter-day Saints, the leader directing the discussion invited participation by asking the question: “How can you tell if someone is converted to Jesus Christ?” For forty-five minutes those in attendance made numerous suggestions in response to this question, and the leader carefully wrote down each answer on a large blackboard. All of the comments were thoughtful and appropriate. But after a time, this great teacher erased everything he had written. Then, acknowledging that all of the comments had been worthwhile and appreciated, he taught a vital principle: “The best and most clear indicator that we are progressing spiritually and coming unto Christ is the way we treat other people.”

On the other hand, I am reminded of this story that I first read in an essay by Williams George Jordan, which comes from a collection of Buddhist works -

The Zen master Hakuin was praised by his neighbors as one living a pure life.

A beautiful Japanese girl whose parents owned a food store lived near him. Suddenly, without any warning, her parents discovered she was with child.

This made her parents very angry. She would not confess who the man was, but after much harassment at last named Hakuin.

In great anger the parents went to the master. "Is that so?" was all he would say.

After the child was born it was brought to Hakuin. By this time he had lost his reputation, which did not trouble him, but he took very good care of the child. He obtained milk from his neighbors and everything else the little one needed.

A year later the girl-mother could stand it no longer. She told her parents the truth - that the real father of the child was a young man who worked in the fishmarket.

The mother and father of the girl at once went to Hakuin to ask his forgiveness, to apologize at length, and to get the child back again.

Hakuin was willing. In yielding the child, all he said was: "Is that so?"

It also reminds me of Plato's Republic and the hypothetical question raised about the rewards of justice being given to the person who was perceived as just while being unjust whereas the hypothetical just person who lacked the reputation did not receive the social rewards.

Perhaps Wade is onto something, which I wasn't willing to grant when I first read through the posts above. If Wade IS right, perhaps this deserves a little more thought?

[Nominee]

We learn in this mortal life not just from our own thoughts and actions but from the thoughts and actions of all those around us.

To be Christlike is to suffer with forgiveness in our hearts and to celebrate life with respect for all living. Not easy tasks but we grow as the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:12

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[Honorentheos]

Hi Nominee,

I was wondering if you could expand on your thoughts in some detail? The idea of "suffer(ing) with forgiveness in our hearts" in particular and how this plays into becoming Christlike.

Thanks.

[Nominee]

Hi Nominee,

I was wondering if you could expand on your thoughts in some detail? The idea of "suffer(ing) with forgiveness in our hearts" in particular and how this plays into becoming Christlike.

Thanks.

Okay, but give me some time please? Honestly, I am the boss of Thanksgiving and I'm sort of jumpin' in and out because my moments here have become many but short lived.

[Honorentheos]

Fair enough. Best wishes in your holiday preparation.

[Nominee]

My thoughts, regarding a response to your request, went immediately to Romans Ch12. The thing is, when I pulled it up to pinpoint why, I found relevent direction throughout the chapter. I LOVE this chapter! But so, I add quickly here as food for thought about suffering with forgiveness in our hearts:

First, the entire 12th chapter of the delicious book of Romans:

http://lds.org/scrip...rom/12?lang=eng

Second, a single scripture:

http://lds.org/scrip....14?lang=eng#13

Um, and here are some others:

Colossians 3:13

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Doctrine and Covenants 64:10

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

IMO, Romans chapter 12 is where it is at! I receive so much every time I read it and it has seen me through some of my darkest moments in this life. Moments in which I have fallen victim to the very hurtful choices of others. I believe the one who may appear to deserve forgiveness the least is the one who may need it the most.

http://lds.org/scrip....21?lang=eng#20

Edited November 23, 2011 by Nominee

[Nominee]

To hopefully better connect my thoughts to the OP, I believe that experiencing life in obedience to God's instruction and living, thinking and acting, in line with the example set by Christ will in turn lead us to know God and understand why He asks of us what he does. We become as God, by knowing Him.

In other words:

He answered, "If I knew what God is I would be God."