Sbc'S Richard Land Claims Romney'S Mormonism Will Be Mocked By Liberals

[thesometimesaint]

CQUIRK:

What excuse? You can be against monarchy in general and still find a few examples of good monarchs.

[Sky]

I don’t think either extreme liberals or conservatives are known for being kind to the Mormons. Face it – the attacks come from both sides and it is ugly. Bigotry is bigotry. The best thing that we as Mormons can do is provide reasoned, informed and courteous answers to inquiries about our faith.

It should be an interesting ride this next year. I hope you all are ready.

[california boy]

Both were Baptist and fit the EV mold, regardless. I think a overwhelming majority agree on that, including me.

Actually I do, and both ETB and Cleon have been criticized for both.

Its funny because you're wrong- the political Left has attacked the LDS Church for their beliefs as well, which you seem to ignore.

http://www.slate.com...s_religion.html

http://newsbusters.o...o-slavery-crazy

http://newsbusters.o...it-christianity

http://www.nytimes.c...k-a-mormon.html

http://www.slate.com...a_religion.html

-Some good examples of Left-wing authors or general Left-wing rhetoric going beyond the LDS Church's involvement in politics.

See above.

Lawrence O'Donnell, Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens, and Steve Benson (ETB's anti-Mormon grandson) are great examples of Left-wing anti-Mormons.

I did real through all of the links posted. I could only find two liberals quoted as having any comments on Mormon beliefs. Compared to the avalanche from the christian right, hardly a snowflake. Personally I feel it is pretty disingenuous to try and make Mormon beliefs a liberal issue. I see most liberals shaking their heads in disgust that the Republicans are making religious beliefs in general and Mormon theology such a central part of their political agenda. Most liberals think that a persons religion should not be a part of the political discussion.

However, the pressing of religious beliefs into law is a big issue with Democrats. They much prefer religious dogma be taught in the churches and not enforced by the laws of government. And that, I believe will be a big part of this election no matter what Republican candidate surfaces.

On a side note, I saw John Huntsman on one of the political shows this morning. He sounds so much more credible, experienced and sane than any of the other candidates. I can't figure out why he is not getting any support.

[thesometimesaint]

Lack of organization, money, being a moderate in a reactionary field.

[CQUIRK]

What excuse? You can be against monarchy in general and still find a few examples of good monarchs.

If they're bigoted against religion period, they're still anti-Mormon, since we are part of that flock they hate.

[CQUIRK]

Liberals wil be more interested in the issues Romney supports or does not support, than in his religion, per se. I think Evangelicals are much more interested in his "religious" issues, than his conservative credentials. I have heard many of them say, they could not vote for someone belong to a cult or someone who believes they are going to be a "god".

The majority of liberals might. But if he wins the GOP primary, then the overwhelming majority of the EV's will eat humble pie and throw their support behind Romney and keep quiet about the issue of his beliefs.

So, except for that small, extremist fringe of religious anti-Mormonism that will always have a problem with us, the majority of anti-Mormon attacks afterwards will come from die-hard Obama supporters and firebrand atheistic Liberals that would be desperate enough to say or do anything to help Obama win re-election.

Even if Obama and the leading liberal icons were to speak out against anti-Mormon attacks, that doesn't mean that all on the Left would obey such pleas during election season.

[thesometimesaint]

I can think of 99 very good reasons to oppose Romney and not one has anything to do with his religion.

[california boy]

Bill Maher, and Christopher Hichens aren't directly anti-Mormon. They are anti-religion however. Mormons just get caught in their cross fire. Don't know enough about either of the others to say.

I've woundered for a long time why Bill doesn't feel obligated to take on his own anti-religion(Atheistic) beliefs. The twentieth century should provide plenty of ammunition.

While there are some on the left that are clearly against religion, it is a false statement to say that the left as a group is against religion. What a lot of the left is against is the religious right trying to force their dogma into the laws of this country. Many conservatives read this as being anti religion.

I think even those that have become anti religious is because they step back and see in those religions using their christian beliefs to divide, judge and exclude so many people. Many of them have come from a religious background. If you don't believe exactly as they do including how they view Christ, then you are judged, condemned and ostracized from their company. Some Christians can see the hate in a rev. Wright, but fail to see that same hate in their own religious actions. During this election cycle, Mormons are seeing the judgement, condemnation and ostracizing directed at them and they don't like it. Being called a cult is a catch phrase that demeand Mormons and justifiies their bigotry. It is nothing new. All religions have been doing this same thing for centuries. Nothing has changed. Christians just don't use cannons and swords these days.

[thesometimesaint]

California Boy:

Politically speaking I'm a Moderately Conservative Liberal. What I object to is the re-definition of words to define someone as something they're not by the extremist elements on either end of the spectrim.

Without invoking Godwins Rule. The Twenthieth Century's atrocities give vivid witness to fact that Atheists are not immune from being every bit as blood thirsty murderous as the Theists. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[thesometimesaint]

CQUIRK :

Where have I told you what you believe? You seem to have the amasing ability to read not only what Liberals believe but are able to prophesy future events.

[Jaybear]

During this election cycle, Mormons are seeing the judgement, condemnation and ostracizing directed at them and they don't like it. Being called a cult is a catch phrase that demeand Mormons and justifiies their bigotry. It is nothing new. All religions have been doing this same thing for centuries. Nothing has changed. Christians just don't use cannons and swords these days.

Now that you mention it, I don't recall any conservative Mormons speaking out against the bigotry that was directed towards the Muslims who were looking to build a community center in New York CIty.

ust if its directed towards mormons.

The majority of liberals might. But if he wins the GOP primary, then the overwhelming majority of the EV's will eat humble pie and throw their support behind Romney and keep quiet about the issue of his beliefs.

So, except for that small, extremist fringe of religious anti-Mormonism that will always have a problem with us, the majority of anti-Mormon attacks afterwards will come from die-hard Obama supporters and firebrand atheistic Liberals that would be desperate enough to say or do anything to help Obama win re-election.

Even if Obama and the leading liberal icons were to speak out against anti-Mormon attacks, that doesn't mean that all on the Left would obey such pleas during election season.

Atheist liberals wouldn't vote for Romney. even if he weren't Mormon. Just what is it that you think they will say about Mormons that is worse than conservative Mormons, such a Glen Beck, would say about Muslims?

.

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

I'm not exactly a conservative, but I remember quite clearly saying that Anti-Muslim statements/actions were appaling

[Calm]

Jaybear:

I'm not exactly a conservative, but I remember quite clearly saying that Anti-Muslim statements/actions were appaling

There were a number of both liberal and conservatives on the board joining with you IIRC.

[Nathair/|\]

Now that you mention it, I don't recall any conservative Mormons speaking out against the bigotry that was directed towards the Muslims who were looking to build a community center in New York CIty.

ust if its directed towards mormons.

Atheist liberals wouldn't vote for Romney. even if he weren't Mormon. Just what is it that you think they will say about Mormons that is worse than conservative Mormons, such a Glen Beck, would say about Muslims?

.

Jaybear:

I'm not exactly a conservative, but I remember quite clearly saying that Anti-Muslim statements/actions were appaling

There were a number of both liberal and conservatives on the board joining with you IIRC.

I'm pretty sure Dr. Peterson came out in support of their right to build it.

[thesometimesaint]

calmoriah:

Agreed.

[CQUIRK]

Where have I told you what you believe? You seem to have the amasing ability to read not only what Liberals believe but are able to prophesy future events.

You obviously think your interpretation of things is the correct one and act like we should believe you.

BTW, I've been active in politics for over 9 years- I've registered people to vote, collected petition signatures, participated in political campaigns and am a current County chairman for a political party in my state.

Heck, I even ran for a state office last year!

I also check out the website Politico quite often, and have been quite active on the other political blogs on the internet. I've also written various news articles for a few political websites as well, over the years.

I know enough, and am experienced enough in politics to be considered a credible political commentator here

Yes, my abilities are indeed amasing, boyo.

[CQUIRK]

Atheist liberals wouldn't vote for Romney. even if he weren't Mormon. Just what is it that you think they will say about Mormons that is worse than conservative Mormons, such a Glen Beck, would say about Muslims?

You may be right on your first take, yet unlike Glenn Beck, their attitude on Mormonism has been a lot nastier.

Would Glenn Beck also give the finger to a Mosque, like what many of the anti-Prop 8 protestors were doing to the LA Temple?

[california boy]

You may be right on your first take, yet unlike Glenn Beck, their attitude on Mormonism has been a lot nastier.

Would Glenn Beck also give the finger to a Mosque, like what many of the anti-Prop 8 protestors were doing to the LA Temple?

You are right of course. I doubt the left will ever forgive the church for their involvement in taking away the right for gays to marry in california even when it is deemed unconstitiutional.

[CQUIRK]

You are right of course. I doubt the left will ever forgive the church for their involvement in taking away the right for gays to marry in california even when it is deemed unconstitiutional.

There are a few things that the Left forgets, besides the religious liberty part of the First Amendment...

The Catholics, EVs, as well as the Black and Hispanic voting groups were actually the biggest contributors to Prop 8's victory, not us.

Yet while Prop. 8 prohibited gay marriage, it didn't prohibit civil unions or take away any of the other rights and benefits LGBT people and couples already enjoy in California.

And don't forget previous state propositions from past elections (like Prop. 22), that the LDS Church also supported back then.

Yet the Left, and especially the militants of the LGBT community, afterwards needed a minority scapegoat that they knew wouldn't fight back that they could easily vent on and bully afterwards.

So, when it comes to seeing our churches vandalized and even burned down, having envelopes of white powder sent to our temples, and how certain LDS members of the local community that simply gave a dollar to the Prop 8 campaign had their personal info published and were forced to quit their job or even go into hiding after facing violent protests and even physical threats- then expect such feelings to be mutual among some LDS too.

After all, fascism and Blackshirt thug tactics don't just belong to those on the Right, and neither do they only belong to those of the heterosexual orientation either.

[thesometimesaint]

CQUIRK:

Good for you, and I really mean that. In the 1960's I participated in the Antiwar marches. However when Uncle Sam tried to draft me. I joined the Air Force instead. In the last 4 decades I've voted in every election local, state, and national. I read everything from Mother Jones to the Wall Street Journal. Have been asked by friends, family, and complete strangers to run for political office. But I have no desire for fame, beyond being a good father to my family.

Ps; Since when when was having an opinion telling someone what they believe?

[CQUIRK]

Really?

Well unlike you, I don't have the same luxuries that you enjoyed back then.

I am trying to find work rather then attend those stupid OWS protests. I am also trying to get into the Navy right now since I want to serve my country and also because the recession has really affected my income. Only my chances are 50/50 of passing the physical because of my ezcema.

So unlike you, my opportunities of serving in the armed forces are limited because of strict requirements that today's US military has for joining, unlike back then.

The only good thing that came out of the Counter-Culture movement was people like Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and other great talented people and their music. Beside that, the CCM screwed up our country and horribly jaded the Vietnam vets.

I ran as a third party candidate and got 5% of the vote. Didn't expect to win in the first place, but it was an interesting experience.

You try to discredit those sources and expect us to agree with you when those sources actually do hit the nail on the head in selek1's argument. You may have an opinion, but that doesn't mean that your opinion is valid to others.

[california boy]

There are a few things that the Left forgets, besides the religious liberty part of the First Amendment...

The Catholics, EVs, as well as the Black and Hispanic voting groups were actually the biggest contributors to Prop 8's victory, not us.

Yet while Prop. 8 prohibited gay marriage, it didn't prohibit civil unions or take away any of the other rights and benefits LGBT people and couples already enjoy in California.

And don't forget previous state propositions from past elections (like Prop. 22), that the LDS Church also supported back then.

Yet the Left, and especially the militants of the LGBT community, afterwards needed a minority scapegoat that they knew wouldn't fight back that they could easily vent on and bully afterwards.

So, when it comes to seeing our churches vandalized and even burned down, having envelopes of white powder sent to our temples, and how certain LDS members of the local community that simply gave a dollar to the Prop 8 campaign had their personal info published and were forced to quit their job or even go into hiding after facing violent protests and even physical threats- then expect such feelings to be mutual among some LDS too.

After all, fascism and Blackshirt thug tactics don't just belong to those on the Right, and neither do they only belong to those of the heterosexual orientation either.

Obviusly you don't want to acknowledge the churches participation in Prop 8 in any kind of factual way. If you haven't got it by now, it is simply because you don't want to get it.

[CQUIRK]

Obviusly you don't want to acknowledge the churches participation in Prop 8 in any kind of factual way. If you haven't got it by now, it is simply because you don't want to get it.

Any church has the constitutional right to participate in politics in any way that doesn't violate the First Amendment, or the Religious Test clause.

Obviously you only want to focus on just the LDS church and not the other churches or groups that backed Prop. 8.

[thesometimesaint]

CQUIRK:

The only luxury was in not wanting to be a mudstomper in the rice paddies of Vietnam. I'm no hero, except to my kids, and now grandkids. That's all the hero I've ever wanted to be. I kept a deployment bag in my closet for that call to get on the plane. I am proud of my service, but have no desire/ability to be in the military again.

I left that decision up to my own kids. I just told them both sides of the issue. Two joined, and one didn't. Their military experience was far different than mine, but I respect their decision. One went to Saudi Arabia for Desert Storm, and the other went to Italy during the Balkans campaign.

I wish you the best of luck in your desire to serve.

I'm was/am more of a Peter, Paul, and Mary type myself. Yeh the Vietnam vets got the shot end of the stick. But I'm not bitter. I believe that leading a happy, productive life is the best revenge.

Opinions are valid, but only as far as opinions go. I do try to reenforce my opinions with the opinions of others. But still it is just my opinion. The only person whom I always agree with is myself, and I'm entitled to change my mind.

[CQUIRK]

I had a friend in the Army that served as a front-line medic in Iraq for 5 years. After he came back, he tried to kill himself and spent some time in the psyche ward because of it.

He lucked out by getting medically discharged.

His wife later divorced him and he is bared from seeing his kids because of his severe PTSD.

We are also no longer friends because his demeanor has changed greatly since then. He also used to be a member of the Church but has since gone inactive, or may have left.

His example is one of the reasons why I'm doing the Navy, plus I want my daughter to have the great medical and various other benefits that the Navy has.