The Book Of Hebrews; Do Mormons Believe?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am currently re-reading the book “Not My Will, But Thine” by Elder Neal A. Maxwell…someone I truly miss from the 12; God rest his soul (I strongly recommend reading it, most of you here could read it in a day or two). In it he quotes Paul in the Book of Hebrews, as do many Apostles and Prophets, as do some of us. The Book of Hebrews has a greater focus on “obedience and submissiveness” (as Elder Maxwell says) than the others writings of Paul.

My Christian Apologists’ who teach that “obedience” is not required of God have begun to question or even outright state that Paul did not write “Hebrews”.

The KJV which we use has always attributed Hebrews to Paul as well as Christians for 2,000 years plus…What has happened, is the grace alone crowd pushing this?

I would like to hear what Mormons and EV’s believe about Hebrews and if we have no idea who wrote it, how can it be considered scripture?

BTW the scripture Elder Maxwell was quoting...

"...no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous".

AMEN!

[Joseph Antley]

I am confident that Paul did not write Hebrews, but I'm equally confident that whoever did write it was just as inspired as Paul was.

[diglot]

From the all literature I have read on Hebrews, the only thing we can sure for sure is that it wasn't written (or dictated) by the Apostle Paul.

Basic reasons for this is the difference in vocab, literary style, theology, etc, from the seven authentic Pauline epistles.

I am an EV, and saying that Paul didn't write it doesn't seem like a big deal even among my conservative EV brethren (except for the few who feel the need to tenaciously cling to their traditions).

Edited October 21, 2011 by diglot

[David T]

I am confident that Paul did not write Hebrews, but I'm equally confident that whoever did write it was just as inspired as Paul was.

Bingo.

[diglot]

Hebrews is definitely a great piece of early Christian literature. Easily one of my favorites.

[cinepro]

My Christian Apologists’ who teach that “obedience” is not required of God have begun to question or even outright state that Paul did not write “Hebrews”.

The KJV which we use has always attributed Hebrews to Paul as well as Christians for 2,000 years plus…What has happened, is the grace alone crowd pushing this?

The last line of the entry in the Bible Dictionary is telling:

Epistle to the Hebrews was written to Jewish members of the Church to persuade them that significant aspects of the law of Moses, as a forerunner, had been fulfilled in Christ, and that the higher gospel law of Christ had replaced it. When Paul returned to Jerusalem at the end of his third mission (about A.D. 60), he found that many thousands of Jewish members of the Church were still “zealous of the law” of Moses (Acts 21:20). This was at least ten years after the conference at Jerusalem had determined that certain ordinances of the law of Moses were not necessary for the salvation of gentile Christians, but had not settled the matter for Jewish Christians. It appears that soon thereafter, Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews to show them by their own scripture and by sound reason why they should no longer practice the law of Moses. The epistle is built on a carefully worked-out plan. Some have felt that the literary style is different from that of Paul’s other letters. However, the ideas are certainly Paul’s.

That seems to open the door to an acceptance of Hebrews not having been written by Paul...?

[diglot]

The KJV which we use has always attributed Hebrews to Paul as well as Christians for 2,000 years plus…

Also, the authorship of Hebrews was disputed in the early church. Some thought Paul, others Apollo. Origen has a much quoted saying on this issue... “Who wrote the epistle [Hebrews], in truth, only God knows.” 

[Joseph Antley]

I've noticed that some general authorities, including President Monson, seem to be in the habit of saying "the author of Hebrews" when they quote Hebrews versus saying "Paul" when they quote the more traditional Pauline letters.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am confident that Paul did not write Hebrews, but I'm equally confident that whoever did write it was just as inspired as Paul was.

So if the Bible translators got that wrong, what else did they get wrong…outside of calling the Song of Solomon scripture? I am sure Deuteronomy was written by Priests and not Moses. Could any of you give CFR’s for your strongly held conviction.

Does this mean for any of you that that those who you to believe to be "Prophets, Seers and Revelators" don't know what they are talking about, including Joesph Smith? Just so you know I am going with the Apostles and early Christians...many who knew Paul personally. IMHO

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Also, the authorship of Hebrews was disputed in the early church. Some thought Paul, others Apollo. Origen has a much quoted saying on this issue... “Who wrote the epistle [Hebrews], in truth, only God knows.”

So just conjecture? Is there any hard evidence or is this computer word analysis which claims that Joseph, Sidney or Oliver wrote the BoM

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

That seems to open the door to an acceptance of Hebrews not having been written by Paul...?

Someone should tell our Apostles...

Edited October 25, 2011 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[David T]

Does this mean for any of you that that those who you to believe to be "Prophets, Seers and Revelators" don't know what they are talking about, including Joesph Smith? Just so you know I am going with the Apostles and early Christians...many who knew Paul personally. IMHO

It means that they had no reason to dedicate their time to studying up on the history and arguments against a popularly held traditional view, and far more things on their mind to dedicate to having a unanimous fast and prayer and vote on than to determine whether Paul or another Apostle wrote the book that all are already agreed is inspired.

Seriously. How would embracing the concept of anonymous-but-inspired authorship change anything, apart from a degree of stronger historical accuracy? Most of the OT doesn't have a known writers.

Doesn't seem to be a faith issue.

[David T]

So just conjecture?

No, the 'just conjecture' is that Paul wrote it. Everything else about it - style, themes, language, lack of any intext attribution to Paul - gives absolutely no indication or hint that Paul is the Author.

Edited October 21, 2011 by nackhadlow

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

No, the 'just conjecture' is that Paul wrote it. Everything else about it - style, themes, language, lack of any intext attribution to Paul - gives absolutely no indication or hint that Paul is the Author.

The entire D&C was not Joseph’s style (Of couse excluding John Taylor's description of the events.(Of that awful day) Nor the BoM…in most cases dictated by God; especially D&C 1…the other epistles were correspondence in the form of sermons to other Christians. In the BOM it is easy to spot Jacob in 2 Nephi and his book, as most of his writings were sermons. Or do you believe that too was written by someone else…can’t have it both ways. How do we know that Hebrews was not dictated? Also without knowing who wrote it how can we call it scripture, what if whoever wrote it was trying to perpetrate hoax?

[Joseph Antley]

So if the Bible translators got that wrong, what else did they get wrong…outside of calling the Song of Solomon scripture?

Determining the authorship of a book is not the job or responsibility of translators. They credited authorship to Paul because of long standing tradition.

Could any of you give CFR’s for your strongly held conviction.

The large majority of mainstream biblical scholarship. In fact, the only scholars that support a Pauline authorship that I'm aware of are those of a strong Evangelical persuasion, and in their cases the conclusion seems to be theologically motivated.

Does this mean for any of you that that those who you to believe to be "Prophets, Seers and Revelators" don't know what they are talking about, including Joesph Smith?

As I said earlier, there seems to be a tendency among current GA's, including President Monson, to refer to the author of Hebrews as "the author of Hebrews" and not "Paul." As for Joseph Smith, aside from prefacing a Hebrews quote with "Paul says...," he never made any statement regarding the authorship of Hebrews that I'm aware of.

Just so you know I am going with the Apostles and early Christians...many who knew Paul personally. IMHO

The earliest Christians who discuss Hebrews do not name Paul was the author, and the Apostles certainly make no reference to Hebrews. Clement of Rome, who gives us our first reference to Hebrews, does not identify an author. Eusebius states that the author of Hebrews may have been Luke, and Tertullian seems to think that it was Barnabas. Origen states that he doesn't know who the author was, but he suggests Clement or Luke.

In fact, the tradition that Paul was the author despite the fact that the epistle/homily does not identify an author seems to have arisen because of this confusion: if Hebrews was going to be considered scripture (and the large majority of Christians in the first few centuries seem to have considered it such), then it must have had an apostolic author, and naturally Paul was the most prolific writer of the apostles. The belief that Paul was the author of Hebrews is a later Christian tradition that we've inherited.

As Mormons we needn't assume that because a text was inspired and is considered scripture that it must have been written by one of the original Twelve or by Paul, especially when there is virtually no evidence to assert this.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Joseph Antley

[mfbukowski]

Bingo.

Or as we say en Francais, "Bingot!"

[mfbukowski]

Whoever wrote it, I think that person wrote one of the most significant passages in the NT, clear in meaning to LDS particularly, regarding the temple:

Hebrews 10

¹⁵Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

¹⁶This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

¹⁷And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

¹⁸Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

¹⁹Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

²⁰By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

²¹And having an high priest over the house of God;

²²Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Edited October 21, 2011 by mfbukowski

[diglot]

So just conjecture? Is there any hard evidence or is this computer word analysis which claims that Joseph, Sidney or Oliver wrote the BoM

The only thing that is conjecture is the notion that Paul authored it, for the epistle nowhere claims that.

[diglot]

So just conjecture? Is there any hard evidence or is this computer word analysis which claims that Joseph, Sidney or Oliver wrote the BoM

The Greek found in Hebrews is simply better writing than that found in any of Paul's epistles.

Edited October 21, 2011 by diglot

[diglot]

One more thing... Hebrews 2:3 seems to preclude Paul from being the author:

It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,

Paul received the gospel from a direct revelation from Christ himself; not from those who first heard it from Christ.

Edited October 21, 2011 by diglot

[Cobalt-70]

The most interesting theory is that Hebrews was written by Priscilla, a woman.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Cobalt-70

[diglot]

The most interesting theory is that Hebrews was written by Priscilla, a woman.

Yea, IIRC, Adolf Harnack was a major proponent of that theory in the early 20th century.

I don't think it holds much sway nowadays. Somewhere in Hebrews (can't remember exactly where off of the top of my head), the author uses a masculine participle in a self-reference, which would seemingly imply that the author thought of themselves as a man.

Edited October 22, 2011 by diglot

[shalamabobbi]

Paul received the gospel from a direct revelation from Christ himself; not from those who first heard it from Christ.

Paul heard the gospel from others who heard the gospel. All the Savior did when He appeared to him was identify Himself, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest".

Acts 9:6

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

In verse 18 we learn that the first thing he apparently had to do was be baptized.

[Ron Beron]

I am confident that Paul did not write Hebrews, but I'm equally confident that whoever did write it was just as inspired as Paul was.

I am sticking my neck far out here, but I think Jesus would have problems with the representations made in Hebrews.

[Cobalt-70]

Paul heard the gospel from others who heard the gospel. All the Savior did when He appeared to him was identify Himself, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest".

Actually, I think that Paul is the author of much of Christianity. Jesus probably would not have recognized the Christianity of Paul, because Jesus was too Jewish and didn't have Paul's background in Greek philosophy.