Just How Divine Are You?

[Vance]

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1011/aaron_adam_eve_worth.php3

A Rabbi's take on the divine power within us.

Our challenge is to realize that the very power within us is completely one with the power beyond us. When we obey and surrender to the voice of G-d commanding us from without, we actually give expression and affirmation to the voice of G-d within us. This is the irony, mystery, and ecstasy of divine oneness. Suddenly we experience our surrender of self as an affirmation of self. Our surrender to G-d beyond us actually reveals that aspect of G-d within us — the soul.

[Zakuska]

My brother, when he came home from his mission did a little experiment with me. He told me to think inwardly. Find the seat of conciousness. Find where the voice you hear in your head speaks from. Then he would take his had and put it infront of me and above my head and say. Is my hand above or below you. (Of course the you he was talking about was the concience) Id say above. Then he'd do the same thing but he would put it below my chin. Eventually we got to the point where the seat of conciousness was finally arrived at. Thats how I found my soul.

[altersteve]

My brother, when he came home from his mission did a little experiment with me. He told me to think inwardly. Find the seat of conciousness. Find where the voice you hear in your head speaks from. Then he would take his had and put it infront of me and above my head and say. Is my hand above or below you. (Of course the you he was talking about was the concience) Id say above. Then he'd do the same thing but he would put it below my chin. Eventually we got to the point where the seat of conciousness was finally arrived at. Thats how I found my soul.

I really, really like that.

[3DOP]

Hi Vance. I love your thread title!

I read what follows yesterday. The subject of "Just how divine are you?" never stops coming up. The Catholic faith affirms the need for divinity in us. Now and forever. I would suggest that one of the misconceptions borne out of the term "salvation" is that it emphasizes mere escape from hell. That's important, of course, but "Salvation", speaking positively, asserts that those who are so happy as to be saved, are so because they are...God.

Mary's obedience to God's adorable will caused Mary the divine Fiat, more admirable, in a way, than the Fiat whereby God created the universe. God's Fiat created the universe, but Mary's Fiat was the occasion by which God became man and man, God. (bold mine)

---The Admirable Heart of Mary, St. John Eudes, Loreto Publications, 2006, Imprimatur, John Cardinal Spellman, Abp. of New York, 5 December, 1947, p. 249.

To explain, the "divine Fiat", refers to the command "Let there be", in Genesis. "Mary's Fiat" refers to her obedience to God's will saying, "Let it be done unto me..."

3DOP

Edited October 20, 2011 by 3DOP

[mercyngrace]

These few lines seemed to sum up the article for me:

This was the underlying dilemma of Adam and Eve. In effect, they had to ask themselves: "Do we surrender our freedom and obey G-d, or do we affirm ourselves and do what we want?" They didn't realize that the answer is not either/or — it is yes and yes.

This article aligns nicely with LDS concepts of eternal progression.

[Nathair/|\]

As you probably know, I've been exploring this idea recently. My favorite expression is something C. S. Lewis said. I can't find the exact quote, but it was to the effect that if you could see your fellow men as they really are, they would appear as something you would be strongly tempted to worship.

[mercyngrace]

As you probably know, I've been exploring this idea recently. My favorite expression is something C. S. Lewis said. I can't find the exact quote, but it was to the effect that if you could see your fellow men as they really are, they would appear as something you would be strongly tempted to worship.

Nathair, the quote you are referring to comes from "The Weight of Glory". It's one of my favorites:

It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would strongly be tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal.

— C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory, HarperOne, pp. 14-15.

[Nathair/|\]

Nathair, the quote you are referring to comes from "The Weight of Glory". It's one of my favorites:

It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would strongly be tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal.

— C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory, HarperOne, pp. 14-15.

Thank you. That's most helpful.

[DarkScythe]

you are divine as you want to be.

[Tarski]

My brother, when he came home from his mission did a little experiment with me. He told me to think inwardly. Find the seat of conciousness. Find where the voice you hear in your head speaks from. Then he would take his had and put it infront of me and above my head and say. Is my hand above or below you. (Of course the you he was talking about was the concience) Id say above. Then he'd do the same thing but he would put it below my chin. Eventually we got to the point where the seat of conciousness was finally arrived at. Thats how I found my soul.

Might that voice have been, oh, I don't know, um,,...at about the level of one's ears?

[LDSToronto]

My brother, when he came home from his mission did a little experiment with me. He told me to think inwardly. Find the seat of conciousness. Find where the voice you hear in your head speaks from. Then he would take his had and put it infront of me and above my head and say. Is my hand above or below you. (Of course the you he was talking about was the concience) Id say above. Then he'd do the same thing but he would put it below my chin. Eventually we got to the point where the seat of conciousness was finally arrived at. Thats how I found my soul.

I don't understand - how did you find your soul with some hand positions and questions?

H.

[Stargazer]

My brother, when he came home from his mission did a little experiment with me. He told me to think inwardly. Find the seat of conciousness. Find where the voice you hear in your head speaks from. Then he would take his had and put it infront of me and above my head and say. Is my hand above or below you. (Of course the you he was talking about was the concience) Id say above. Then he'd do the same thing but he would put it below my chin. Eventually we got to the point where the seat of conciousness was finally arrived at. Thats how I found my soul.

Interesting. In fact this isn't new. Cleon Skousen reported that he and Elder Widtsoe had the same conversation when Skousen was on his mission and Elder Widtsoe was the mission president.

[LDSToronto]

Interesting. In fact this isn't new. Cleon Skousen reported that he and Elder Widtsoe had the same conversation when Skousen was on his mission and Elder Widtsoe was the mission president.

Wait, Cleon Skousen and Elder Widtsoe used the hand motion/interview technique to find the soul? Perhaps someone could expand on what this technique is all about and how it leads to finding one's soul, because I am honestly confused.

H.

[Nathair/|\]

you are divine as you want to be.

To paraphrase J.B.S. Haldane, we are not only more divine than we imagine, we are more divine than we can imagine.

[Stargazer]

Wait, Cleon Skousen and Elder Widtsoe used the hand motion/interview technique to find the soul? Perhaps someone could expand on what this technique is all about and how it leads to finding one's soul, because I am honestly confused.

H.

Skousen reported the conversation in a talk he gave to a mission conference in Texas back in 1980. The whole talk is about the nature of the Atonement, and this was just a brief mention of this. I wouldn't necessary count it as LDS doctrine. In fact, I think that though this may be an interesting parlor game, I actually don't think our soul (i.e. spirit) is located where this seems to say it is. I've developed a rather nifty theory that posits that our actual spirit resides somewhere else completely, but that's off topic for the conversation. And its private doctrine, too.

But, have a look at

for the 9 parts of this Skousen talk (the playlist is on my YouTube channel). I've found it to be very valuable and precious, though of course your mileage may differ. The conversation about the location of the soul is mentioned somewhere in there (I'm pretty sure), but I can't tell you where exactly.

[thesometimesaint]

Just how divine am I?

I am a loved son of the most high God. I have the potential to be just like him.

Edited October 23, 2011 by thesometimesaint

[barnsweb]

http://www.jewishwor..._eve_worth.php3

A Rabbi's take on the divine power within us.

Since Jesus became my Teacher, I'll have to agree with what He said.

John 7:16,17; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."

In this teaching Jesus equates the personal testimony of His truth from God (the gospel of the kingdom) is to be found in our will to do what He said.

And how many have you heard say 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,' who leave out the preceding matter to first abide in the word of Jesus, that abiding in His word is how you know the truth?

John 8: 31,32; "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

What does Jesus mean by 'If you abide in My word'? In my dictionary the meanings of abide are: to wait for; to endure without yeilding; to bear patiently; to accept without objection; to remain stable or fixed in a state; to continue in a state; to conform to; to acquiesce in.

Here are a few more choice things He has to say:

John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."

Revelation 22:14; "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words, and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."

[LDSToronto]

And, to answer the OP's question, "How divine [are you]?":

There is no human being more divine than me.

H.

[Peppermint Patty]

And, to answer the OP's question, "How divine [are you]?":

There is no human being more divine than me.

H.

That's not what your wife told me.

You know I'm joking. I kid because I love.

[volgadon]

http://www.jewishwor..._eve_worth.php3

A Rabbi's take on the divine power within us.

Very Hasidic take.

Here are a couple of quotes from p. 255 of Newman's Hasidic Anthology. A convenient English source.

The Berditschever Rabbi interpreted thus the verse (Exodus 34 : 6) : "And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed : The Lord, the Lord" : "When the thought of the Lord passes through the mind of the good man, it becomes divine, and Divinity exclaims : 'O Thou that art divine.'"

The Riziner interpreted Isaiah 55:8: "For My thoughts are not Your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord." His paraphrase was: "For are there not My thoughts to give you what is in your thoughts? Why, then, are not your ways, as My ways ?"

[volgadon]

Here is one adapted by Martin Buber on p. 39 of Ten Rungs. I've bolded the striking part.

This is the service man must perform all of his days: to shape matter into form, to refine the flesh, and to let the light penetrate the darkness, until the darkness itself shines and there is no longer any division between the two. As it is written: “And there was evening and there was morning, one day”

One should not make a great to-do about serving God.

Does the hand boast when it carries out what the heart wills?

In other words, man and God are considered two parts of one whole, just as the hand and the heart are part of the same body.

Edited October 23, 2011 by volgadon

[Stargazer]

Wait, Cleon Skousen and Elder Widtsoe used the hand motion/interview technique to find the soul? Perhaps someone could expand on what this technique is all about and how it leads to finding one's soul, because I am honestly confused.

H.

Skousen reported the conversation in a talk he gave to a mission conference in Texas back in 1980. The whole talk is about the nature of the Atonement, and this was just a brief mention of this. I wouldn't necessary count it as LDS doctrine. In fact, I think that though this may be an interesting parlor game, I actually don't think our soul (i.e. spirit) is located where this seems to say it is. I've developed a rather nifty theory that posits that our actual spirit resides somewhere else completely, but that's off topic for the conversation. And its private doctrine, too.

But, have a look at

for the 9 parts of this Skousen talk (the playlist is on my YouTube channel). I've found it to be very valuable and precious, though of course your mileage may differ. The conversation about the location of the soul is mentioned somewhere in there (I'm pretty sure), but I can't tell you where exactly.

Simply because I don't think that you actually tuned into the entire YouTube playlist I posted the link to, no blame, just that's a lot of material to sift through, I finally located a tidbit of time to find the particular YT video and the timehack of the story in question. Here it is, at about 2:40 into the video, where Skousen is recounting a conversation he had with Elder Widtsoe (post-mission, I believe), discussing what intelligences are and where Skousen's particular intelligence was located.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcI4Gar8FCU