The Celestial Kingdom Will Be Earth?

[Ahab]

It is a mistake to describe the world in which we now live as the "telestial kingdom". It is not. It is a world in which people of all dispositions (celestial, terrestrial, telestial, and SOPs) are currently living together, and being tested to prove which one of those kingdoms they will be worthy to receive. The glory enjoyed by the world we live in today may be equivalent to a telestial glory; but that does not mean that it is a telestial kingdom. It is a state of probation for all mankind, to determine which one of those kingdoms they are worthy of, and will be consigned to in the day of judgment.

FYI, Rob has a valid point in stating this Earth is the Telestial kingdom, if by that he means it is one of the worlds composing the Telestial kingdom and not that this is the only planet that is part of the Telestial kingdom. We are actually taught that in a place that is not to be named here, and the fact that it's taught there makes it official doctrine, although I think that teaching is referring to the world as it was immediately after the fall rather than how messed up it is right now.

Where Rob is getting off track a little, though, is in thinking that those who won't get to stay here when this Earth becomes a Terrestrial planet will then be sent into outer darkness, because he doesn't think they will be sent to some other Telestial planet. He also seems to think that when this Earth becomes a Celestial world all of those of the Terrestrial order will be sent into outer darkness, then, instead of being sent to another Terrestrial world which they were worthy of.

He's close but not quite there yet in understanding our Lord's doctrine on this issue.

[Maidservant]

At http://institute.lds...sp-31-37-37.asp,

the last several bullet points say,

"God has said if we will honor Him and keep His commandments—if we will

observe His laws He will fight our battles and destroy the wicked, and when

the time comes He will come down in heaven—not from heaven—but He

will bring heaven with Him—and this earth upon which we dwell, will be the

celestial kingdom” (George Albert Smith, in Conference Report, Oct. 1942, 49)."

and

"In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be

sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who

shall grace it with his presence. (D.C. 88:19.) Then shall the righteous, those

who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their

abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants

who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the

throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of

celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to

Perfection, 351).

Do these two passages imply that Heavenly Father will reside on the earth?

Why does it say earth will be the celestial kingdom instead of a celestial

kingdom?

Where would the terrestrial and telestial inhabitants reside?

Thanks,

Tony

God is not going to corral glorious beings with agency into planetary reservations.

In my opinion, people of all speculative and faithful (or non-) bents make this much too difficult. It's very simple.

Some thing to keep in mind: We often talk about our individual salvation, and certainly we have an individual salvation.

But we seem to forget that much of salvation is a work we are all doing together (on earth) and cannot be separated from becoming of one heart and one mind. The ideas of "telestial", "terrestrial", and "celestial" are structures that allow us to understand the details as we are ready. But in the end it is as simple as all get out.

We will enjoy a celestial society all across the earth as soon as we all act according to those kinds of laws. No one is going to be shipped off planet in violation of agency! Unless we WANT to move to Xorgon because we really like the villas there. Come on! lol. Anyway, a full celestial kingdom is the effort of everyone all together, not a big camp where people get their entry ticket stamped and checked on their way in. The celestial kingdom (and the telestial and terrestrial passages before it) is a becoming. Our covenants of Jesus Christ are individual, yes, but they also serve to unite us into one consecrated body.

As the generations pass away, and more and more people enter this covenant body, the less likely that there would ever BE anyone born who could be wicked because of the environment all enjoy.

No one is GOING to the celestial kingdom . . . we are going to create it, organically, in process of time.

My current personal belief is that both the Celestial and Terrestrial glories will be upon this Earth- though I am still pondering the issue in my spare time.

Well, they already are now. We have h***, telestial, terrestrial and celestial altogether on one planetary surface. Why? Because real estate isn't a kingdom . . . Beings are.

[Cobalt-70]

84 These are they who are

thrust down to h***

[for a limited period of time]

This issue has probably been raised before, but it seems a little strange that the software for this forum censors the word h*** when somebody quotes that word in scripture. Is there anything that can be done about that? Obviously, we are going to be talking about h*** in this forum, and quoting scriptures that contain theological words like "h***" and "damn." The software certainly doesn't censor the words "Jesus Christ," even though depending on the context, that could be a profanity too.

[Rob Osborn]

It is a mistake to describe the world in which we now live as the "telestial kingdom". It is not. It is a world in which people of all dispositions (celestial, terrestrial, telestial, and SOPs) are currently living together, and being tested to prove which one of those kingdoms they will be worthy to receive. The glory enjoyed by the world we live in today may be equivalent to a telestial glory; but that does not mean that it is a telestial kingdom. It is a state of probation for all mankind, to determine which one of those kingdoms they are worthy of, and will be consigned to in the day of judgment.

One can attend any temple open house and learn that the world room in the temple is a representation of the world we now live in. The world we now live in, as explained, is the telestial kingdom. Now whether or not this means just this world or many other worlds also, it is of important note that the temple endowment ceremony is the most current doctrine regarding both the plan of salvation and the defining of kingdoms. As a matter of fact, the endowment ceremony, which is the plan of salvation, takes us through the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms before entrance into the celestial kingdoms. Also of note is that Joseph's Smith's understanding of salvation changed rather dramatically from the time he recorded what is now section 76 to the later endowment ceremony.

[zerinus]

FYI, Rob has a valid point in stating this Earth is the Telestial kingdom, if by that he means it is one of the worlds composing the Telestial kingdom and not that this is the only planet that is part of the Telestial kingdom. We are actually taught that in a place that is not to be named here, and the fact that it's taught there makes it official doctrine, although I think that teaching is referring to the world as it was immediately after the fall rather than how messed up it is right now.

Where Rob is getting off track a little, though, is in thinking that those who won't get to stay here when this Earth becomes a Terrestrial planet will then be sent into outer darkness, because he doesn't think they will be sent to some other Telestial planet. He also seems to think that when this Earth becomes a Celestial world all of those of the Terrestrial order will be sent into outer darkness, then, instead of being sent to another Terrestrial world which they were worthy of.

He's close but not quite there yet in understanding our Lord's doctrine on this issue.

I regard the telestial kingdom as the place where only people of telestial order dwell, which is not the case in this present world. This world currently enjoys a telestial glory, until it is changed to a different kind of glory; but that is not quite the same thing as calling it a telestial kingdom, or part of the telestial kingdom. It may be a minor technicality, but that is how I look it. It is a state of probation for people who are destined to all the different degrees of glory. That is my understanding of the matters you had been referring to.

[zerinus]

One can attend any temple open house and learn that the world room in the temple is a representation of the world we now live in. The world we now live in, as explained, is the telestial kingdom. Now whether or not this means just this world or many other worlds also, it is of important note that the temple endowment ceremony is the most current doctrine regarding both the plan of salvation and the defining of kingdoms. As a matter of fact, the endowment ceremony, which is the plan of salvation, takes us through the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms before entrance into the celestial kingdoms. Also of note is that Joseph's Smith's understanding of salvation changed rather dramatically from the time he recorded what is now section 76 to the later endowment ceremony.

See my reply to Ahab.

[Rob Osborn]

FYI, Rob has a valid point in stating this Earth is the Telestial kingdom, if by that he means it is one of the worlds composing the Telestial kingdom and not that this is the only planet that is part of the Telestial kingdom. We are actually taught that in a place that is not to be named here, and the fact that it's taught there makes it official doctrine, although I think that teaching is referring to the world as it was immediately after the fall rather than how messed up it is right now.

Where Rob is getting off track a little, though, is in thinking that those who won't get to stay here when this Earth becomes a Terrestrial planet will then be sent into outer darkness, because he doesn't think they will be sent to some other Telestial planet. He also seems to think that when this Earth becomes a Celestial world all of those of the Terrestrial order will be sent into outer darkness, then, instead of being sent to another Terrestrial world which they were worthy of.

He's close but not quite there yet in understanding our Lord's doctrine on this issue.

To clarify- I believe that all the saved will be saved into celestial glory. I currently believe we are in the first of three heavens. At the end of this first heaven (the telestial glory) which is the glory of the Holy Ghost, the earth and heaven will pass away and then we will have a new heaven and earth. This is the second heaven which glory is the presence of Christ will be th eterrestrial kingdom. At the end of the millennium, the earth and heaven will pass away again and then we shall have a new heaven and earth which glory will be that of the Father- the celestial glory. Jacob's ladder from old testament times was a representation of three rungs on a ladder. Joseph Smith defined the lowest rung as the telestial kingdom (the world we now live in) and the next as the terrestrial kingdom (that kingdom shortly to come) and the third rung or "third heaven" as the celestial kingdom- where God resides. Joseph told us about ladders in his TPJS that one must start at the bottom rung of a ladder and climb one rung at a time.

The temple teaches us that salvation is not merited until one reaches the celestial kingdom. No salvation comes in either the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms in the temple. They are mere stepping stones or "rungs" of Jacob's ladder that bring us back to God's presence.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Rob Osborn

[zerinus]

This issue has probably been raised before, but it seems a little strange that the software for this forum censors the word h*** when somebody quotes that word in scripture. Is there anything that can be done about that? Obviously, we are going to be talking about h*** in this forum, and quoting scriptures that contain theological words like "h***" and "damn." The software certainly doesn't censor the words "Jesus Christ," even though depending on the context, that could be a profanity too.

I am sure it can be fixed. The software will contain somewhere a database of words it uses to censor the words that are typed. All that the board admin will have to do is to delete that particular word from the database, and it should fix the problem.

[Ahab]

I regard the telestial kingdom as the place where only people of telestial order dwell, which is not the case in this present world. This world currently enjoys a telestial glory, until it is changed to a different kind of glory; but that is not quite the same thing as calling it a telestial kingdom, or part of the telestial kingdom. It may be a minor technicality, but that is how I look it. It is a state of probation for people who are destined to all the different degrees of glory. That is my understanding of the matters you had been referring to.

People of higher orders will be able to visit people of lower orders (with no word on a time limit) so I imagine all 3 orders being present on a Telestial world with different people visiting or being present most if not all of the time.

Not much different than it is now, really, as right now there are people who have a portion of Celestial glory, and Terrestrial glory, even though they don't have a fulness right now.

[Ahab]

To clarify- I believe that all the saved will be saved into celestial glory. I currently believe we are in the first of three heavens. At the end of this first heaven (the telestial glory) which is the glory of the Holy Ghost, the earth and heaven will pass away and then we will have a new heaven and earth. This is the second heaven which glory is the presence of Christ will be th eterrestrial kingdom. At the end of the millennium, the earth and heaven will pass away again and then we shall have a new heaven and earth which glory will be that of the Father- the celestial glory. Jacob's ladder from old testament times was a representation of three rungs on a ladder. Joseph Smith defined the lowest rung as the telestial kingdom (the world we now live in) and the next as the terrestrial kingdom (that kingdom shortly to come) and the third rung or "third heaven" as the celestial kingdom- where God resides. Joseph told us about ladders in his TPJS that one must start at the bottom rung of a ladder and climb one rung at a time.

The temple teaches us that salvation is not merited until one reaches the celestial kingdom. No salvation comes in either the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms in the temple. They are mere stepping stones or "rungs" of Jacob's ladder that bring us back to God's presence.

Salvation can be defined as being saved from our sins, either fully or in part, so what you're talking about when talking about being saved in the Celestial order is what most of the rest of us LDS refer to as "exaltation".

I think the main question you're trying to answer is regarding what will happen to those who aren't ready or worthy to pass on to a higher degree of glory when the planet, itself, is changed to a higher order. Your answer seems to be they'll all be sent into outer darkness, unless you think the planet won't be changed until everyone is ready for the change at the same time.

When the world changes to a Terrestrial order, you seem to think everyone who won't be able to adapt to that change will be sent into outer darkness, presumably to stay there forever. I can somewhat agree with that, although I call where they will go "h***" rather than outer darkness, and I know of revelation which states they will be redeemed from h*** after they have paid the penalty for their sins, but even then they'll only be allowed to come back to a Telestial world, since that is as far as tney progressed.

Then, later, when the world changes from a Terrestrial order to a Celestial order, you seem to think everyone who is able to abide a Terrestrial order, but not a Celestial, will be sent into outer darkness along with those of the Telestial order, but I see no support for that in the scriptures and instead I see scripture which states they will live in a state of Terrestrial glory.

All will be clear to you when you realize there are other planets in the cosmos for those of Telestial and Terrestrial orders without people of those orders needing to be sent into outer darkness with Satan and his angels when this Earth gets upgraded.

[Rob Osborn]

Salvation can be defined as being saved from our sins, either fully or in part, so what you're talking about when talking about being saved in the Celestial order is what most of the rest of us LDS refer to as "exaltation".

The term "exaltation" only appears in scripture in the D&C in one section and it refers specifically to the state of those who are both saved and have an eternal marriage. "Salvation" is found all through scriptures and refers specifically to being saved from ones sins, being saved from h*** and receiving an inheritance in God's kingdom. My beliefe is that anyone who gains "salvation" will be found in the celestial kingdom.

I think the main question you're trying to answer is regarding what will happen to those who aren't ready or worthy to pass on to a higher degree of glory when the planet, itself, is changed to a higher order. Your answer seems to be they'll all be sent into outer darkness, unless you think the planet won't be changed until everyone is ready for the change at the same time.

I do not necessarily believe everyone will have to be at the same level once the new kingdom comes, only that they will be able to abide in that glory. There is a period of grace and mercy i believe. I think you think that I beleive that all people will have to be at the same level but that is not what I think. I think all people going into the next glory are able to withstand that glory based off of mercy and grace. One thing I believe in is that a person can be in a kingdom and be tried with that glory to see if he can abide in it. For instance- we are in the telestial glory now because we enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost. Those who abide in obedience are blessed with futher light and knowledge. Those who don't comply are shut off from that glory until they come to a point where they are no longer able to even abide in the glory whatsoever. It is at this point that men are cut off from God, and at death are sent to h***.

When the world changes to a Terrestrial order, you seem to think everyone who won't be able to adapt to that change will be sent into outer darkness, presumably to stay there forever. I can somewhat agree with that, although I call where they will go "h***" rather than outer darkness, and I know of revelation which states they will be redeemed from h*** after they have paid the penalty for their sins, but even then they'll only be allowed to come back to a Telestial world, since that is as far as tney progressed.

When the earth changes to a terrestrial order all will be tired and given chance to abide in that glory. If they are not worthy, they may find themselves in h*** for a period of time.

Then, later, when the world changes from a Terrestrial order to a Celestial order, you seem to think everyone who is able to abide a Terrestrial order, but not a Celestial, will be sent into outer darkness along with those of the Telestial order, but I see no support for that in the scriptures and instead I see scripture which states they will live in a state of Terrestrial glory.

All will be clear to you when you realize there are other planets in the cosmos for those of Telestial and Terrestrial orders without people of those orders needing to be sent into outer darkness with Satan and his angels when this Earth gets upgraded.

At the end of the millennium, all the saved will have to be able to abide the celestial glory or be cast aside. Ample time is given to this point for all men to comply with the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel. If one hasn't met the base minimum requirements of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, and baptism for the remission of sins, then they must be cast aside into outer darkness. All that is required to abide in celestial glory is to be cleansed from all sin.

Revelations teaches us that all of the sanctified (cleansed through the atonement by obedience to the gospel ordinances) will have their names retained in the book of life. All of the names of the book of life have access or residence in the Holy City where Both the God the Father and the Lamb (Jesus Christ) reside. In this city is the tree of life. This city is the celestial kingdom. Anyone whose name is thus written in the book of life are celestial heirs. Those whose names are not in the book of life are the sons of perdition who partake of the second death. Here read-

He that ^aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in ^bwhite ^craiment; and I will not ^dblot out his name out of the ^ebook of life, but I will ^fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

12 And I saw the ^adead, small and great, ^bstand before God; and the ^cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the ^dbook of life: and the dead were ^ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their ^fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and ^adeath and ^bh*** delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And ^adeath and ^bh*** were cast into the lake of fire. This is the ^csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 15)

[ShiningStar]

I really enjoyed Rob's comments: "At that time when the earth is made into the celestial kingdom, all of the saved inhabitants of the earth will reside here. Only two places will exist- the celestial kingdom and outer darkness. Read in Revelations about this- all of the names of the saved will walk within the holy city (celestial kingdom on this earth) while those whose names are not found written will have no entrance to the city and will be cast into outer darkness.

Read in section 76 where Christ will work until he has perfected the kingdom (inhabitants of the earth) and then presents it spotless to the father where then it will be crowned with celestial glory.

Where will the telestial and terrestrial inhabitants reside?"

 

I think he is on to something there but I'm wondering how to synthesize that with D&C 88: 21:  "And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom"

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

since terrestrial means earth,  I would thing heaven would be celestial

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

since terrestrial means earth,  I would thing heaven would be celestial

Huh?

[Rob Osborn]

I really enjoyed Rob's comments: "At that time when the earth is made into the celestial kingdom, all of the saved inhabitants of the earth will reside here. Only two places will exist- the celestial kingdom and outer darkness. Read in Revelations about this- all of the names of the saved will walk within the holy city (celestial kingdom on this earth) while those whose names are not found written will have no entrance to the city and will be cast into outer darkness.

Read in section 76 where Christ will work until he has perfected the kingdom (inhabitants of the earth) and then presents it spotless to the father where then it will be crowned with celestial glory.

Where will the telestial and terrestrial inhabitants reside?"

 

I think he is on to something there but I'm wondering how to synthesize that with D&C 88: 21:  "And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom"

In that same section there is a little obscure verse that might answer such a question. In Section 88-

28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.

Note how it says "they who are of a celestial spirit" but then goes on to describe the resurrection. We are now in the telestial glory (telestial kingdom with the glory of the Holy Ghost) and certainly some have already been resurrected (quickened) by this glory. Being "celestial in spirit" just means that one is already prepared for the celestial kingdom but they may be resurrected first with telestial gloryand be quickened in due time from that to terrestrial and finally celestial.

[The Nehor]

The doctrine taught in this thread can be summed up by a passage from the allegory of the olive tree in Jacob:

30 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard and the servant went down into the vineyard; and they came to the tree whose natural branches had been broken off, and the wild branches had been grafted in; and behold all sorts of fruit did cumber the tree.

31 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard did taste of the fruit, every sort according to its number. And the Lord of the vineyard said: Behold, this long time have we nourished this tree, and I have laid up unto myself against the season much fruit.

32 But behold, this time it hath brought forth much fruit, and there is none of it which is good. And behold, there are all kinds of bad fruit; and it profiteth me nothing, notwithstanding all our labor; and now it grieveth me that I should lose this tree.