Civil War Prophecy

[Jesterss]

If you want me to do your homework for you...

http://en.fairmormon...s_generation%22

It helps to read the information that has already been provided for you.

So you believe that the time frame joseph smith gave could still be achieved. Interesting.. See, what you fail to comprehend here is what Joseph Smith said, "this generation" referring to present time and his people.. When Matthew said "this generation" he was referring to the generation that would be when the great tribulation begins...So to say these are one and the same is false.

Read it again, carefully. The explanation is given in the same passage. What is the condition that the Lord gives?

Please enlighten me.. What condition is given for the destruction of new york and boston.. I didn't come here to discuss this with myself.. of course I expect leg work from you.. that would be the point of discussion.. If I sit here and question and answer myself, who's going to enjoy that?

[Jesterss]

Right, so what happened to this verse?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Do you not read well? I just gave you the answer, matthew was talking about the generation that would be alive during the start of the tribulation as he pointed out in verse 29.. Not to his generation, but to those who were alive when the tribulation began.. Cmon now..

[Vance]

Do you not read well? I just gave you the answer, matthew was talking about the generation that would be alive during the start of the tribulation as he pointed out in verse 29.. Not to his generation, but to those who were alive when the tribulation began.. Cmon now..

I read just fine. How about you?

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Just who are the "ye" and the "you" to whom Jesus is speaking?

Edited September 15, 2011 by Vance

[Jesterss]

I read just fine. How about you?

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Just who are the "ye" and the "you" to whom Jesus is speaking?

The people reading his words when they are alive during the start of the great tribulation.. that's who..

[Vance]

The people reading his words when they are alive during the start of the great tribulation.. that's who..

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a clue. He didn't write those words, He spoke them. To whom is He speaking?

[Vance]

Here is another clue. Read verse 2.

[altersteve]

So you believe that the time frame joseph smith gave could still be achieved. Interesting.. See, what you fail to comprehend here is what Joseph Smith said, "this generation" referring to present time and his people.. When Matthew said "this generation" he was referring to the generation that would be when the great tribulation begins...So to say these are one and the same is false.

Joseph Smith wasn't the one speaking here, the Lord was. Since you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, you won't believe that this was the word of the Lord, so there's no use discussing this further.

Please enlighten me.. What condition is given for the destruction of new york and boston.. I didn't come here to discuss this with myself.. of course I expect leg work from you.. that would be the point of discussion.. If I sit here and question and answer myself, who's going to enjoy that?

The Lord said that New York City and Boston would be destroyed if they reject the gospel. However, as Joseph Smith elsewhere predicted (History of the Church 6:319), stakes were established in both those cities (yet another correct prophecy), so the Lord spared them. Clearly, the prophecy regarding the destruction of NYC and Boston was conditional.

[Jesterss]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a clue. He didn't write those words, He spoke them. To whom is He speaking?

If they weren't written then how can you read them now? Here's a clue, when Jesus told the Jews that they could tear down the temple and he would rebuild it in three days, they thought he literally meant the physical temple. So did his disciples at first. We clearly know that he was referring to his body as the temple. Point being: Jesus didn't always speak directly... Parables... ahhh, the infamous parables.. Jesus was talking to his disciples, who, as we know, wrote those words down.. wrote them down

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

Hmm, let the reader understand.. what? huh? the reader? but isn't jesus talking directly to them? See, now you should be confused.. Because clearly Jesus was talking to them telling them of the future, of the time when the buildings would no longer be standing. His disciples asked him how they would know about it, so Jesus went on telling them of the signs of his second coming... so that anyone "reading" this would understand and know that it is he.. not a false prophet... he was telling them to warn those who would be alive during this time of the tribulation..

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

D&C 84

Zion to be built in this generation in Missouri. What's the explanation for this?

The same explanation you would use for Mathew 24.

Oh but wait, what JS said was not in the bible.

Nice double standard.

[Sevenbak]

Oh but such an easy question to answer..

Matthew was not speaking about his generation, he was speaking about the generation who would be alive when the tribulation begins...

29 ¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

he doesn't say these days.. or our days, he says those days, referring to the days when the great tribulation is to begin... thank you for not omitting this first line..

Ding ding ding. Now go read what JS said again.

[Jesterss]

Joseph Smith wasn't the one speaking here, the Lord was. Since you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, you won't believe that this was the word of the Lord, so there's no use discussing this further.

But you can't deny that he said "this generation".. meaning the current generation, he was not speaking in parables was he?

The Lord said that New York City and Boston would be destroyed if they reject the gospel. However, as Joseph Smith elsewhere predicted (History of the Church 6:319), stakes were established in both those cities (yet another correct prophecy), so the Lord spared them. Clearly, the prophecy regarding the destruction of NYC and Boston was conditional.

When were these stakes built? Seems to me they were built sometime later as to not make him look like a false prophet..

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Ding ding ding. Now go read what JS said again.

Jester just got pooned.

[Sevenbak]

Joseph Smith wasn't the one speaking here, the Lord was. Since you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, you won't believe that this was the word of the Lord, so there's no use discussing this further.

The Lord said that New York City and Boston would be destroyed if they reject the gospel. However, as Joseph Smith elsewhere predicted (History of the Church 6:319), stakes were established in both those cities (yet another correct prophecy), so the Lord spared them. Clearly, the prophecy regarding the destruction of NYC and Boston was conditional.

And still is...

[Jesterss]

The same explanation you would use for Mathew 24.

Oh but wait, what JS said was not in the bible.

Nice double standard.

It's not a double standard. See his prophecy said that it would be dedicated by the hands of Joseph Smith and others worthy. And it says in his generation (talking about Smith) that this New Jerusalem would be built. I don't see the double standard.. The context is not the same.. therefore,not a double standard..

[ERayR]

It's not a double standard. See his prophecy said that it would be dedicated by the hands of Joseph Smith and others worthy. And it says in his generation (talking about Smith) that this New Jerusalem would be built. I don't see the double standard.. The context is not the same.. therefore,not a double standard..

None are so blind as those who WON'T see.

Edited September 15, 2011 by ERayR

[Jesterss]

Matthew says in the generation of those who witness the tribulation..

D&C 84 clearly states in Joseph Smith's generation.

Which city shall be ^abuilt, beginning at the ^btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and ^cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city ^aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which ^btemple shall be ^creared in this ^dgeneration.

5 For verily this generation shall not all ^apass away until an ^bhouse shall be built unto the Lord, and a ^ccloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the ^dglory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

[LeSellers]

The Lord said that New York City and Boston would be destroyed if they reject the gospel. However, as Joseph Smith elsewhere predicted (History of the Church 6:319), stakes were established in both those cities (yet another correct prophecy), so the Lord spared them. Clearly, the prophecy regarding the destruction of NYC and Boston was conditional.

One is left to ponder how those who, like Jesterss, believe every prophesy must be fulfilled in exactly the way the original revelation was given deal with Jonah. Jonah, it seems, was in the same camp as Jesterss, et al.

1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. 2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. 3 Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. 4T hen said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?

5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city. 6 And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. 7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered. 8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.

9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death. 10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Lehi

[Vance]

If they weren't written then how can you read them now?

Reading comprehension.

I didn't say they weren't written I said He did not write them.

Here's a clue, when Jesus told the Jews that they could tear down the temple and he would rebuild it in three days, they thought he literally meant the physical temple. So did his disciples at first. We clearly know that he was referring to his body as the temple. Point being: Jesus didn't always speak directly... Parables... ahhh, the infamous parables..

Irrelevant.

Jesus was talking to his disciples, who, as we know, wrote those words down.. wrote them down

Right! He was talking to his disciples.

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

Hmm, let the reader understand.. what? huh? the reader?

Yup, the reader of Daniel.

. . . but isn't jesus talking directly to them?

His disciples were the only ones there. Nobody else.

See, now you should be confused.. Because clearly Jesus was talking to them . . .

the disciples

telling them . . .

the disciples

of the future, of the time when the buildings would no longer be standing.

Yup.

His disciples asked him how they would know about it, so Jesus went on telling them of the signs of his second coming...

Right, he is talking to HIS disciples.

. . . so that anyone "reading"

But He isn't writing, He is speaking TO HIS DISCIPLES!!!

And you have to make a complicated, contorted and tortuous explanation as to why it doesn't apply to them. Got it.

this would understand and know that it is he.. not a false prophet...

Exactly. So if He isn't a false prophet then neither is Joseph. Got it.

Now you have to add stuff THAT IS NOT THERE.

he was telling them to warn those who would be alive during this time of the tribulation..

And THAT is NO WHERE in there.

Was it you that made a statement about apologists?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Matthew says in the generation of those who witness the tribulation..

D&C 84 clearly states in Joseph Smith's generation.

Which city shall be ^abuilt, beginning at the ^btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and ^cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city ^aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which ^btemple shall be ^creared in this ^dgeneration.

5 For verily this generation shall not all ^apass away until an ^bhouse shall be built unto the Lord, and a ^ccloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the ^dglory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

I am sorry but the temple lot and the land for the NJ is what is to be dedicated. I see no were in that verse were it states that JS is to dedicate the physical temple. This is getting sad Jester.

Temple lot and Temple are 2 separate things.

[Jesterss]

I am sorry but the temple lot and the land for the NJ is what is to be dedicated. I see no were in that verse were it states that JS is to dedicate the physical temple. This is getting sad Jester.

Temple lot and Temple are 2 separate things.

No, New Jerusalem is to be built at the temple lot, which is in missouri...

[Sevenbak]

I am sorry but the temple lot and the land for the NJ is what is to be dedicated. I see no were in that verse were it states that JS is to dedicate the physical temple. This is getting sad Jester.

Temple lot and Temple are 2 separate things.

Exactly... JS dedicated the temple lot... Those who have ears to hear...

[LeSellers]

I am sorry but the temple lot and the land for the NJ is what is to be dedicated.

Wow!!!

There's going to be a Temple in New Jersey?!

Whodathunkit?

Lehi

[Sevenbak]

No, New Jerusalem is to be built at the temple lot, which is in missouri...

And it will be....

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

No, New Jerusalem is to be built at the temple lot, which is in missouri...

You are right but all JS did was dedicate the land. Like I said this is getting really sad.

The NJ is to be started at the temple lot.

Keep trying. I have not had this much fun in months.

[Sevenbak]

Wow!!!

There's going to be a Temple in New Jersey?!

Whodathunkit?

Lehi

Fugitaboutit...