The Gospel And Music

[altersteve]

What is your opinion about music and how it fits into God's plan? I personally believe that music is, if used properly, one of the greatest tools to bring souls unto Christ. I love all genres of music, and I have felt the Spirit while listening to the genres that you won't hear in church. And I see nothing wrong with it — if, like I said, it is used for righteous purposes. We are taught to glorify God with all that we do, all that we say, and all that we are. The Bible tells us, "Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise" (Pslams 33:3). I feel like some of the discrimination against certain genres of music is unnecessary, since I believe that all music can be used for a beautiful purpose: to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Martin Luther put it best when he said:

"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: it is a gift of God. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: he knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us."

[Questing Beast]

Music is the universal language. Everyone I know likes some form of music. A few like all of it. I don't: But even Rap and Country Western produces the rare piece that I can stand to hear.

I imagine the entirety of the Cosmos composed of music-emitting creation. In the "Home World" (that which forms the pattern of all other worlds), all plants, animals, even the formed elements, add their parts to the "Symphony of the Spheres": the infinite GRAND OPUS that never ends. God can assimilate it entirely. But we are limited in our comprehension of that titanic orchestration, because we are cut off from the whole of it in combination. Our universe is a fractured symphonic choir and orchestra. Only when we return to the Home World, will we be reunited with the complete "Symphony of the Spheres"....

[jadams_4242]

What is your opinion about music and how it fits into God's plan? I personally believe that music is, if used properly, one of the greatest tools to bring souls unto Christ. I love all genres of music, and I have felt the Spirit while listening to the genres that you won't hear in church. And I see nothing wrong with it — if, like I said, it is used for righteous purposes. We are taught to glorify God with all that we do, all that we say, and all that we are. The Bible tells us, "Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise" (Pslams 33:3). I feel like some of the discrimination against certain genres of music is unnecessary, since I believe that all music can be used for a beautiful purpose: to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Martin Luther put it best when he said:

"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: it is a gift of God. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: he knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us."

As long as the music is not simply stirring hormones,emotions and so on.. loud banging and screaming,jumping around e;t;c...finally geting everyone in a room "excited" and worked up with emotion ; Is not conducive of the spirit... it gets emotions and heart rates going but it is quite oppressive to Gods actuall spirit.

[Nathair/|\]

The Lord commanded Emma Smith to prepare a hymnbook and said:

12 For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with a blessing upon their heads.

Doctrine and Covenants 25:12

My Celtic ancestors knew that music was one of the most powerful forces in the universe. Many tales are told of bards using music to transform their world. An Dagda Mòr once defeated a band of Fomorii by playing three strains: the goltrai -- song of sorrow, the suantrai – song of comfort, and the gentrai – song of joy. Music also has great ability to unite hearts and minds, one of the key elements in establishing Zion.

In The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien suggested that the universe was even created by the song of God. Even when Melkor tried to create a discordant song, God was able to weave it into His song and make it even more beautiful.

Yours under the bardic oaks;

Nathair /|\

Edited August 27, 2011 by Nathair

[Bernard Gui]

I don't expect many will agree with what I'm saying.

After spending a lifetime as a professional and a Church musician and having given this

issue a great deal of thought and reflection, I have come to the conclusion

that music is a human emotional expression, nothing more. There is nothing wrong with that.

Music can evince powerful feelings, even what many would consider inspirational. In the case

of hymns, however, what we think of as inspirational is the text, not the music. There are some

great LDS hymn texts, some great non-LDS texts in our hymn book, but generally the music

is mediocre. I challenge anyone to name a "serious" LDS composer from the last 50 years whose

music appears in the hymnbook or is generally known to the Church. Most music popular in the

Church today fits comfortably in the genre of Christian pop. Many very popular hymns in our book are not by LDS composers. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. Most activity in LDS

music today takes place in the "arranging" area, not the compositional area. I think this is

unfortunate.

Several examples that have influenced my thinking...

My BYU viola professor and orchestra director, David Dalton, and his wife Donna, presented

pre-Education Week type instructional tours in which they would perform music and discuss

its use in church settings. My favorite demonstration was Donna singing a rather smokey

torch song and David asking the audience where that song might be appropriately enjoyed.

The answer, of course, was in a cabaret, a club, a bar, whatever. Then she would sing the

actual words the composer put to the music, and that was a poem about Joseph Smith's First

Vision. The music itself was clearly more suited to a non-church atmosphere, but changing

the text made it more "inspirational."

In my opinion, one of the most spiritual composers (combining sacred text with fabulous music)

is Ralph Vaughan-Williams. There are few that compare with his Christmas oratorio, "Hodie,"

for sublime musical expression, especially the hymn, "The Blessed Son of God." Yet Rafe

was agnostic. He did not claim to be inspired when he wrote it, yet some listeners would be

profoundly moved by it.

One does not have to subscribe to a particular religion to compose great music for its believers.

I'm always amused at Christmas to see Walmart shoppers buying Barbra Streisand Christmas albums.

Many of the most popular Christmas songs (pop) were written by Jewish lyricists and composers.

We might consider the quality of the performance...does it affect the inspirational impact of the

music? A highly skilled musician can communicate the most intimate feelings, yet not have an

ounce of sincerity or commitment to the text, yet the listener may be moved to rapturous heights.

The question....is that the Holy Spirit moving, or is it the human experience? I'm leaning more and more

to the latter.

Bernard

Edited August 28, 2011 by Bernard Gui

[altersteve]

Are you arguing that only lyrics, not music, can be inspired? If so, I must say that I emphatically disagree with you. I believe the Holy Ghost absolutely moves through music. I strongly believe that God inspires all people, even those who don't believe in Him and even when those people did not claim to be inspired, so the fact that a Christmas song was written by a Jewish songwriter, for example, makes no difference.

Or maybe I just misunderstand what you're saying.

Edited August 27, 2011 by altersteve

[TAO]

Is some music inspired? Yes, I think it is. But it also takes people willing and wanting to listen to the message God would like us to learn from it =).

[Calm]

I don't expect many will agree with what I'm saying.

After spending a lifetime as a professional and a Church musician and having given this

issue a great deal of thought and reflection, I have come to the conclusion

that music is a human emotional expression, nothing more.

Bernard, I have come to this same conclusion having learned that music has a profound effect on me physically that parallels how emotions act, but not the spirit (music's effect does not have to be 'logical' as in your example of singing a 'torch song' with uplifting words will have more or less the same effect as a torch song with less than uplifting words as well as the numerous times I find myself getting choked up watching a movie or TV show when I find the whole situation actually totally nonsensical or completely bland, shallow and empty of any meaning while with the Spirit I know the reason for why I experience the sensations that I do and the sensations are completely coherent with the meaning of the 'trigger' of the experience.)

However, because of its effect on the body, I believe that music can prepare the person to be more open to the Spirit just as fasting and other ways we prepare our bodies to listen to the Spirit can.

I would say that music can be inspired though it is not inspiring in and of itself (think of scientific discoveries that are in my view inspired but have nothing to do with learning spiritual knowledge or increasing spiritual experiences), rather it opens up the soul to the Spirit to be inspired just as fasting or treating one's body as a temple in and of itself is not inspiring, but can contribute to the effect of the Spirit by creating a more receptive soul.

Edited August 27, 2011 by calmoriah

[gurn]

I’m with Bernard on this one. I’ve made my living in the music production/technology side of the business. Music has a powerful effect on our emotions. There is a reason that virtual every movie and TV show has a sound track.

Music is so powerful that it makes it easy to manipulate the audiences’ emotions. You can make them feel what you want them to feel and maybe belief what you want them to belief. That’s one reason I don’t mind that LDS services are so lame musically. It is likely the spirit if you feel something during one of our meetings, typical the music and spoken word of pretty low quality.

[Calm]

There is a reason that virtual every movie and TV show has a sound track.

Listening to movies and TV without any sound track attached sets off my restless legs sydrome....a great sign of the level of engagement that occurs with what I am watching differing when music is present even in ways I am hardly aware of it since distraction is a key 'treatment' for rls and the more engaged one is with something, the better the distraction (unless the subject is rls itself or ants and spiders crawling all over one or being locked up in small places and then that sets the legs going, lol).

That’s one reason I don’t mind that LDS services are so lame musically. It is likely the spirit if you feel something during one of our meetings, typical the music and spoken word of pretty low quality.

I will remember this next time I hear someone complain about our music, lol.

[ldsfaqs]

What is your opinion about music and how it fits into God's plan? I personally believe that music is, if used properly, one of the greatest tools to bring souls unto Christ. I love all genres of music, and I have felt the Spirit while listening to the genres that you won't hear in church. And I see nothing wrong with it — if, like I said, it is used for righteous purposes. We are taught to glorify God with all that we do, all that we say, and all that we are. The Bible tells us, "Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise" (Pslams 33:3). I feel like some of the discrimination against certain genres of music is unnecessary, since I believe that all music can be used for a beautiful purpose: to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Martin Luther put it best when he said:

"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: it is a gift of God. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: he knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us."

Music has a spirit, not simply words. Thus, certain kinds of music is not appropriate for certain kinds of things, and especially some of them aren't even appropriate for good LDS. Those who say they "like all kinds of music" are people you should stay away from, because they are people who have no "discernment" of the spiritual side of music, or at least not enough. Rap music for example, save the most jovial and lighthearted and spirit kind, has no place in an LDS's music collection, and certainly not for Church. There is very little of the lighthearted kind, because really the spirit behind rap is an evil one. So, really, it should be basically entirely avoided.

I'll give you another example. I got rid of basically all of my "hard rock", because it wasn't of God, and wouldn't encourage the spirit in me. Many years later, I heard a few songs from "Nightwish" and I really liked them. Not all of their songs, but a few I enjoyed. I played these songs, and because I had trained my children to understand the "spirit" of music, what was of light, and what was of darkness, but I really hadn't trained them as to that in relation to hard rock or heavy metal really, when they first heard one of those songs that I liked from Nightwish, they were very scared, they felt the darkness of the song. Their tender spirits were not yet as calloused as mine was, so while I didn't believe what I was listening to was too bad, though I knew it had a darker tinge to it, my sweet little boys immediately recognized the darkness of it, and though it not good.

Martin Luther didn't have the kinds of music we have today. Further, read his words carefully. He was first talking about those who despise music (which obviously we don't do), and then he compared it to theology. Obviously, if you are comparing Music to theology, then there is the potential to be bad music, just like there is bad theology.

Thus, I absolutely do think it's necessary to "discriminate" against certain kinds of music, and especially in certain circumstances.

When I hear Christian Punk for example, that's not Christian, that's wanting your cake and to eat it to. People wanting to have one step in the world, and another step in the Gospel, is not the Gospel. If you want to pollute and pervert the Gospel into another man-made religion, then go all for it. You really should be careful what you "wish" for. The Church has standards "above" the world for a reason. If you "saints" out there keep trying to change those standards, keep trying to promote YOUR values onto the Church, then that "spirit" of God is lost, and you and the Church begin to listen to "another spirit".....

Some 14 years ago, it sickened me, when I would enjoy fun and wonderful dances with wholesome music in my Reno singles ward, institute, and otherwise dances, and basically my entire life of quality dances, and then going to BYUH, and seeing the Rap music they played. The "bump and grind" immoral music, at a Church school of all things..... I never danced again, until once having to go to an Multi-Asian clubs dance, to find some actual "morality" and standards again in music, that was fun, light, without the evils of rap.

I remember even before that experience, that whether it was rap or some other unwholesome music that was tried to be played, several of us at the dance would know, and say, to take that song off, because it had an immoral spirit to it.

Everyone out there, you need to be discerning again, stop allowing our youth to become as the world. Music is the most intimate thing of the soul. What you allow them to nourish at home or at Church activities etc., those children become. It alarms me all the "gang banger" wannabes and rapers, etc. in the Church in dress, behavior etc. Those of you who think "that's okay", are clearly missing the entire ball game when it comes to children in the Church, the kind of men they are to be and become. They certainly won't be becoming Bishop's etc.

Edited August 28, 2011 by ldsfaqs

[Bernard Gui]

Are you arguing that only lyrics, not music, can be inspired? If so, I must say that I emphatically disagree with you. I believe the Holy Ghost absolutely moves through music.

One of my favorite hymns is Jesus the Very Thought of Thee. If I had never heard the text it would not have attracted me. The melody is very good, but apart from the text it's just a nice tune. I am profoundly moved by Mahler's Symphony #5 (no words), but I don't attribute it to the Spirit, and most people wouldn't be bothered to give it a listen.

I strongly believe that God inspires all people, even those who don't believe in Him and even when those people did not claim to be inspired, so the fact that a Christmas song was written by a Jewish songwriter, for example, makes no difference.

It does to me.

Or maybe I just misunderstand what you're saying.

You understood. That's why I started my post with a disclaimer.

Bernard

Edited August 28, 2011 by Bernard Gui

[Nathair/|\]

Music has the power to change your life.

[altersteve]

Music has a spirit, not simply words. Thus, certain kinds of music is not appropriate for certain kinds of things, and especially some of them aren't even appropriate for good LDS. Those who say they "like all kinds of music" are people you should stay away from, because they are people who have no "discernment" of the spiritual side of music, or at least not enough. Rap music for example, save the most jovial and lighthearted and spirit kind, has no place in an LDS's music collection, and certainly not for Church. There is very little of the lighthearted kind, because really the spirit behind rap is an evil one. So, really, it should be basically entirely avoided.

I'll give you another example. I got rid of basically all of my "hard rock", because it wasn't of God, and wouldn't encourage the spirit in me. Many years later, I heard a few songs from "Nightwish" and I really liked them. Not all of their songs, but a few I enjoyed. I played these songs, and because I had trained my children to understand the "spirit" of music, what was of light, and what was of darkness, but I really hadn't trained them as to that in relation to hard rock or heavy metal really, when they first heard one of those songs that I liked from Nightwish, they were very scared, they felt the darkness of the song. Their tender spirits were not yet as calloused as mine was, so while I didn't believe what I was listening to was too bad, though I knew it had a darker tinge to it, my sweet little boys immediately recognized the darkness of it, and though it not good.

Martin Luther didn't have the kinds of music we have today. Further, read his words carefully. He was first talking about those who despise music (which obviously we don't do), and then he compared it to theology. Obviously, if you are comparing Music to theology, then there is the potential to be bad music, just like there is bad theology.

Thus, I absolutely do think it's necessary to "discriminate" against certain kinds of music, and especially in certain circumstances.

When I hear Christian Punk for example, that's not Christian, that's wanting your cake and to eat it to. People wanting to have one step in the world, and another step in the Gospel, is not the Gospel. If you want to pollute and pervert the Gospel into another man-made religion, then go all for it. You really should be careful what you "wish" for. The Church has standards "above" the world for a reason. If you "saints" out there keep trying to change those standards, keep trying to promote YOUR values onto the Church, then that "spirit" of God is lost, and you and the Church begin to listen to "another spirit".....

Some 14 years ago, it sickened me, when I would enjoy fun and wonderful dances with wholesome music in my Reno singles ward, institute, and otherwise dances, and basically my entire life of quality dances, and then going to BYUH, and seeing the Rap music they played. The "bump and grind" immoral music, at a Church school of all things..... I never danced again, until once having to go to an Multi-Asian clubs dance, to find some actual "morality" and standards again in music, that was fun, light, without the evils of rap.

I remember even before that experience, that whether it was rap or some other unwholesome music that was tried to be played, several of us at the dance would know, and say, to take that song off, because it had an immoral spirit to it.

Everyone out there, you need to be discerning again, stop allowing our youth to become as the world. Music is the most intimate thing of the soul. What you allow them to nourish at home or at Church activities etc., those children become. It alarms me all the "gang banger" wannabes and rapers, etc. in the Church in dress, behavior etc. Those of you who think "that's okay", are clearly missing the entire ball game when it comes to children in the Church, the kind of men they are to be and become. They certainly won't be becoming Bishop's etc.

The Church encourages members to choose music that uplifts them and brings them closer to the Spirit. My music selections do that for me. I completely avoid music with profanity (and I don't even try to find the "edited version," I simply avoid it completely) and songs about sex, drugs, Satanism, etc., nor do I listen to music that promotes the "bumping and grinding" that you described. I always try to draw the line with everything I do, listen to, watch, and so on, just as any Latter-day Saint (and non-LDS Christian) should. I am absolutely not trying to put my standards into the Church. I prayerfully choose music that I feel fits with the gospel; if I don't feel good about it, I don't listen to it. Also, with the Martin Luther quote, I was referring specifically to where he said that "Satan hates music" and that Satan "knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us." I find that completely true. Of course Satan uses evil music for his evil purposes, but when it comes to music that is used to bring people unto Christ, he hates it, and he's terrified of it.

I play guitar in a (Christian) rock band because of my membership in Christ's Church, not in spite of it. Please don't make unfounded accusations about me standing in the world with one foot and the gospel with the other. I reject that idea about myself completely.

Edited August 28, 2011 by altersteve

[volgadon]

In my opinion, one of the most spiritual composers (combining sacred text with fabulous music)

is Ralph Vaughan-Williams

My philosophy is the more RVW the better. He is one of my absolute favourites.

[ldsfaqs]

The Church encourages members to choose music that uplifts them and brings them closer to the Spirit.

Yes, but I would say the more accurate thing is that the Church encorages us to choose "uplifting music", not music that uplifts us.

People can claim bad music uplifts them, but that's not a good thing obviously. Being a JW uplifts people, but that's not necessarily a good thing, because it's false religion.

I would say as members of the Church, we need to be better than the world, not simply another aspect like the world.

My music selections do that for me. I completely avoid music with profanity (and I don't even try to find the "edited version," I simply avoid it completely) and songs about sex, drugs, Satanism, etc., nor do I listen to music that promotes the "bumping and grinding" that you described. I always try to draw the line with everything I do, listen to, watch, and so on, just as any Latter-day Saint (and non-LDS Christian) should. I am absolutely not trying to put my standards into the Church. I prayerfully choose music that I feel fits with the gospel; if I don't feel good about it, I don't listen to it.

That's good... Just remember it should be more than simply feelings, it should be based on actual standards. People have all kinds of feelings, but that doesn't mean those feelings are compatible with the Gospel, just like Rap at a Church school dance isn't compatible with the Gospel.

Also, with the Martin Luther quote, I was referring specifically to where he said that "Satan hates music" and that Satan "knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us." I find that completely true. Of course Satan uses evil music for his evil purposes, but when it comes to music that is used to bring people unto Christ, he hates it, and he's terrified of it.

Sure.

I play guitar in a (Christian) rock band because of my membership in Christ's Church, not in spite of it. Please don't make unfounded accusations about me standing in the world with one foot and the gospel with the other. I reject that idea about myself completely.

What kind of Christian rock? Hard rock, Metal, Punk, etc.? If so, then it could be a wrong spirit. However, just rock itself, can be good, if it has a wholesome spirit to it.

So, I'm not going to judge, until I know what the music sounds like. I have a fine ear when it comes to music and the spirit of God. Of course, as I gave in my example, even I can be "tolerant and enjoying" of more than I likely should, for my children had an even more delicate ear. I'm only sharing that members of the Church need to be much more discerning, and less tolerant of certain music choices in the Church, like it used to be. Further, people that grow up a certain way, listening for example to the bad stuff, cannot generally any longer discern good from evil when it comes to music. Thus, those of us out there, need to be standing as watchmen in the Church, that our youth are not being corrupted, that our church activities aren't being corrupted by immoral music, etc. For example, for a Talent show recently, some kids did a rap dance to some rap music, and it wasn't at all the "wholesome" fun rap either. That was completely inappropriate, and too many were tolerant of it. There needs to be better standards than this.

[Calm]

\ Being a JW uplifts people, but that's not necessarily a good thing, because it's false religion.

Right, because it would be so much better for them to choose to live a faithless or immoral life than be a member of a "false religion".

[Bernard Gui]

My philosophy is the more RVW the better. He is one of my absolute favourites.

If there were a piece of instrumental music that was inspired by the Holy Spirit, it would be Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis.

Bernard

[Bernard Gui]

However, because of its effect on the body, I believe that music can prepare the person to be more open to the Spirit just as fasting and other ways we prepare our bodies to listen to the Spirit can.

I would say that music can be inspired though it is not inspiring in and of itself (think of scientific discoveries that are in my view inspired but have nothing to do with learning spiritual knowledge or increasing spiritual experiences), rather it opens up the soul to the Spirit to be inspired just as fasting or treating one's body as a temple in and of itself is not inspiring, but can contribute to the effect of the Spirit by creating a more receptive soul.

Very interesting observations. I agree with what you say. I can think of many times when a hymn has set me in the proper frame of mind to be instructed or inspired or just to meditate.

Music is such a personal thing. We defend our favorite tunes or genre as vehemently as we support our sports teams, maybe even more so. Much of our children's identities is bound to their musical preferences...hip-hop, rap, goth, ska, punk, country, whatever. Even adults swear allegiance to their music. It's powerful stuff.

Bernard

[Calm]

Wanted to expand on a thought that came to me after getting some more significant sleep, :

In the case of hymns, however, what we think of as inspirational is the text, not the music

I believe that the crucial aspect that leads music to be inspiring or not is context which includes but is not limited to text. There is much music that given the right context that can open one up and lead to greater communication with the Spirit. And if in a totally different setting (think of it being used to set up a parody where religion is being ridiculed for example) it can have the completely opposite effect....but all 'language' whether it is textual, musical, visual or some other form with which we communicate has the same attribute where context is all important to the message being conveyed and thus the response of the individual.

[altersteve]

Yes, but I would say the more accurate thing is that the Church encorages us to choose "uplifting music", not music that uplifts us. People can claim bad music uplifts them, but that's not a good thing obviously.

Since I don't listen to "bad music," this doesn't mean anything to me.

Being a JW uplifts people, but that's not necessarily a good thing, because it's false religion.

I find this very inappropriate. If being one of Jehovah's Witnesses (and yes, the proper way to say it is "one of Jehovah's Witnesses," not "a Jehovah's Witness") uplifts someone, then we have no right or authority to say that "that's not necessarily a good thing." As I have stated several times on this board, and as someone who respects and admires other faiths and who believes that we can learn a great deal about the gospel by studying other faiths' teachings, I believe that God works within all religions, including Jehovah's Witnesses. So because I don't believe in "false religions" (I usually prefer to say that a religion does not have the fullness of the truth instead of saying it's false — I think condemning another religion as "false" is totally unnecessary, uncalled for, and one of the most un-Christian things someone can do), and since I believe that the Lord can and maybe even does, for His own purposes and in His wisdom, inspire people to join religions other than His Church, I very strongly disagree with you here. But that's a discussion for another time and place.

Sorry, but I'm disappointed to see a fellow Latter-day Saint condemn another religion like this. I think it's unacceptable.

I would say as members of the Church, we need to be better than the world, not simply another aspect like the world.

And I completely agree with you.

That's good... Just remember it should be more than simply feelings, it should be based on actual standards. People have all kinds of feelings, but that doesn't mean those feelings are compatible with the Gospel, just like Rap at a Church school dance isn't compatible with the Gospel.

Exactly. I said that I have set standards. I agree that rap music at a BYU dance is unacceptable.

What kind of Christian rock? Hard rock, Metal, Punk, etc.? If so, then it could be a wrong spirit. However, just rock itself, can be good, if it has a wholesome spirit to it.

Thanks, but I think I have enough experience to know a "wrong spirit" when I hear it (or feel it, etc.), and when my band performs, no evil spirit is present — we simply won't allow it to be. Evil spirits cannot and will not be in a place where the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached and celebrated, be it through music or any other medium.

I have a fine ear when it comes to music and the spirit of God.

And I don't? I may be young and imperfect, but that doesn't mean I'm not as in tune with the Spirit as you are. Your implication otherwise is rather offensive.

Edited August 29, 2011 by altersteve

[ebeddoulos]

Yes, but I would say the more accurate thing is that the Church encorages us to choose "uplifting music", not music that uplifts us.

People can claim bad music uplifts them, but that's not a good thing obviously. Being a JW uplifts people, but that's not necessarily a good thing, because it's false religion.

Sorry, but I'm disappointed to see a fellow Latter-day Saint condemn another religion like this. I think it's unacceptable.

There is no need to apologize. You are absolutely correct. Bigotry from any source is unacceptable. I salute your standards!

[ldsfaqs]

Right, because it would be so much better for them to choose to live a faithless or immoral life than be a member of a "false religion".

Please don't put words into my mouth. It may not have been the best example, but the point is still valid.

Maybe I should have used the "satanic Church or Fanatical Islam", and then I wouldn't be falsely accused of "bigotry" toward other righteous of the earth that may simply be mistaken?

I would have expected "better" of you all.

Edited August 29, 2011 by ldsfaqs

[cinepro]

I highly recommend this church-produced podcast from BYU Professor Michael Hicks on the subject:

Mormonism and Music

He even talks about early hymns that were sung with the "gift of tongues" (i.e. the unknown or Adamic language).

[Calm]

Please don't put words into my mouth. It may not have been the best example, but the point is still valid.

Maybe I should have used the "satanic Church or Fanatical Islam", and then I wouldn't be falsely accused of "bigotry" toward other righteous of the earth that may simply be mistaken?

I would have expected "better" of you all.

Don't you think it would have just been better to rephrase your comment rather than complaining you are being picked upon if you think the point is still valid because from here, it isn't. And giving you the benefit of the doubt, what you wrote is still 100% wrong in my view....even if I can see how you might have meant it and misspoke, I can only judge by what you actually wrote and since you exhibit no evidence of a desire to change or clarify, it seems appropriate to assume that you are standing by what you stated.

So am saying again...