inquiringmind Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 I got my copy of Joseph's Bible Commentary today, and I'd like to know what this means?The Father has a body of flesh and bones...the Son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. And a person cannot have the personage of the Holy Ghost in his heart. He may receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; it may descend upon him, but not tarry with him.(Joseph Smith Commentary on the Bible, compiled and edited by Kent P. Jackson, Deseret Book Company, pg. 131.)
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 I got my copy of Joseph's Bible Commentary today, and I'd like to know what this means?The Father has a body of flesh and bones...the Son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. And a person cannot have the personage of the Holy Ghost in his heart. He may receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; it may descend upon him, but not tarry with him.(Joseph Smith Commentary on the Bible, compiled and edited by Kent P. Jackson, Deseret Book Company, pg. 131.)It sounds like he is stating that it does not "indwell" in a person or that it lives or resides in a person.
inquiringmind Posted July 11, 2011 Author Posted July 11, 2011 It sounds like he is stating that it does not "indwell" in a person or that it lives or resides in a person.But isn't that contrary to LDS church doctrine?
TAO Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) But isn't that contrary to LDS church doctrine?No, it's not. In other words... the Holy Ghost can be in more than one places at once... and he also, can leave if you are mistreating him. Edited July 12, 2011 by TAO
inquiringmind Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) No, it's not. In other words... the Holy Ghost can be in more than one places at once... and he also, can leave if you are mistreating him.The Commentary says " a person cannot have the personage of the Holy Ghost in his heart. He may receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; it may descend upon him, but not tarry with him."Is it LDS doctrine that one can have the personage of the Holy Ghost indwelling their heart. or isn't it? Edited July 12, 2011 by inquiringmind
TAO Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Is it LDS doctrine that one can have the personage of the Holy Ghost indwelling their heart. or isn't it?It's the companionship of the Holy Ghost... the ability for him to whisper to you stronger. However, it can be lost with great mistreatment of the gift.Again, see the D&C verse, which was created partly through the commentary.A man may receive the aHoly Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not btarry with him.Meaning that the gift can be lost.Question... can you cite the words before the specified verse in commentary? I am curious as to what they reveal about the statement... thanks =). Edited July 12, 2011 by TAO
frankenstein Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Is it LDS doctrine that one can have the personage of the Holy Ghost indwelling their heart. or isn't it?this sounds to me more like a commentary on common beliefs of the day, and so much is lost in the 100+ years since made, and none are qualified to speak for Joseph Smith on the matter.Can a person "feel" the influence of the Holy Ghost, Yes a person can. Does the Personage of Spirit that is the Holy Ghost essentially posses another person and encapsulate himself in the person heart? No I do not think that is how the Holy Ghost works. It is LDS belief or practice to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost or to live one life in such a way that when needed the Holy Ghost will be able to help, rather then being pushed away by a persons actions.
Thinking Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 D&C 13022 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.According to verse 22, the Holy Ghost can dwell in a person. Can the Holy Ghost dwell in more than one person at a time?
Storm Rider Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 This sounds more like a problem of semantics than anything else. Everyone talks by one another using different terminology, but it all amounts to the same thing. Whether we use dwell or companionship, what does it matter. The effect is that each can be lead by the Holy Spirit. LDS believe this, the LDS Church teaches this also. Other Christians believe it and their church teaches it.
Thinking Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 This sounds more like a problem of semantics than anything else. Everyone talks by one another using different terminology, but it all amounts to the same thing. Whether we use dwell or companionship, what does it matter. The effect is that each can be lead by the Holy Spirit. LDS believe this, the LDS Church teaches this also. Other Christians believe it and their church teaches it.It's not semantics. "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
David T Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 D&C 13022 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.According to verse 22, the Holy Ghost can dwell in a person. Can the Holy Ghost dwell in more than one person at a time?D&C 130 is a rewrite of the original quote under question, redacted after Joseph's death. It certainly changes Joseph's intent, doesn't it! 1
Thinking Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 D&C 130 is a rewrite of the original quote under question, redacted after Joseph's death. It certainly changes Joseph's intent, doesn't it!Are you saying that what is recorded in D&C 130:22-23 is incorrect?
David T Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Are you saying that what is recorded in D&C 130:22-23 is incorrect?All I know is that it is the opposite of what Joseph apparently actually said. Whether it is more correct or less in the eternal truth matter, I'm unable to say. However, as it stands, it does seem inconsistent with other teachings concerning the Holy Ghost, and spirit personages. Edited July 13, 2011 by nackhadlow
Palerider Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) In this particular case I would say the original quote is actually closer to the truth than that of the revised. Somehow I don't see the Holy Ghost actually entering in to one's body in a similar way as one who is possesed of an evil spirit, where more than one spirit actually inhabits the body simutaneously.I've always seen the "indwelling" scriptures as being more symbolic of the Spirit's ability to influence and communicate truths to us.Guess this would come under a similar heading as those who see Joseph's doctrine of the corporal state of the Father as "evolving" rather than being an observation from the first vision. Edited July 13, 2011 by Palerider
Storm Rider Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 It's not semantics. "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."I am sorry, but the focus is describing how the Holy Spirit touches the heart of humanity. It has no bearning weather it is "dwelling", "touching", "influencing"; they all describe the same thing. Yes, Johnny, that is a problem of semantics. At the end of the day everyone knows that the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, the Second Comforter, and he in fact works with each of us on our path to return to God.
Thinking Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 "dwelling", "touching", "influencing"; they all describe the same thing.?
Calm Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 All I know is that it is the opposite of what Joseph apparently actually said. Assuming it was not an error in transcription....If he had made other comments that supported this comment, it would raise the probability of a correct quotation. Do we have other comments on the subject supporting this position or is this the only one?
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