Gay History To Be Included In California Education

[TAO]

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/landmark-gay-history-bill-goes-calif-governor-222837028.html

The crucial part:

The bill, passed on a party-line vote, adds lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people as well as people with disabilities to the list of groups that schools must include in the lessons. It also would prohibit material that reflects adversely on gays.

They are effectively eliminating our right to protest, by forcing the education upon schools. The downward slide has begun.

This is the sorta thing we need a petition to remove, don't you think?

Sorrowful Wishes,

TAO =(

[Libs]

I don't know, TAO. It depends on what is taught and how it's done.

I really don't think people can keep pounding on the "gay lifestyle" as some abomination and still expect that there will be no bullying or negative consequences in our schools. Something needs to give. A lot of these kids are killing themselves (and have been for years). It's not fair to them and it's not fair to kids who have same-sex parents, to continue to view them as something less than normal or second class citizens.

[Doctor Ninja]

Pedophiles are going to be deeply offended for being left out. I am sure their future bill will pass next.

[Libs]

Are you, seriously, comparing LGBT people to pedophiles?

[TAO]

I don't know, TAO. It depends on what is taught and how it's done.

I really don't think people can keep pounding on the "gay lifestyle" as some abomination and still expect that there will be no bullying or negative consequences in our schools. Something needs to give. A lot of these kids are killing themselves (and have been for years). It's not fair to them and it's not fair to kids who have same-sex parents, to continue to view them as something less than normal or second class citizens.

My friend, the reason people are pounding are because of these sort of things are being passed.

Yes, alot of them have been killing themselves. But my group (people with Asperger's) get bullied more, and we don't suicide nearly as much.

There are other ways to stop bullying and suicide. So why excuse this bill, considering the drastic negative consequences, when there are other ways to stop the bullying anyways?

Also, TAO is irritated right now... so please excuse his bluntness =(.

[Libs]

Sorry, TAO, but when I see posts like Ninjas, it seriously makes me think we need a LOT more education, on this subject, in our schools.

And, we don't even know what the agenda is going to be. It could be really good, for all we know. I'd really like to have more information about it, before passing judgment.

Do you live in CA, TAO? I do.

[TAO]

Sorry, TAO, but when I see posts like Ninjas, it seriously makes me think we need a LOT more education, on this subject, in our schools.

Well then we need some education on protecting the right to disagree with homosexuality vocally too, no?

And, we don't even know what the agenda is going to be.

Except that by the time the agenda goes, it is too late to do anything about it. That is the problem =/.

It could be really good, for all we know.

I'd love to have it be that way, but this part makes me think otherwise: "It also would prohibit material that reflects adversely on gays."

I'd really like to have more information about it, before passing judgment.

I would too, but it's too risky imho. I'm not willing to take that risk, sorry =/.

Do you live in CA, TAO? I do.

Yes, I do... remember we had the conversation about Cal State Fullerton? =D.

We live within 20-30ish minutes of each other, I think =).

Ninja Wishes,

TAO

[Daniel2]

TAO,

As I understand it, this particular legislation is not about preventing bullying of LGBT teens, but about teaching history regarding worthwhile contributions made by LGBT individuals, as well as individuals with disabilities (which, I would assume, would include individuals who struggle with Aspergers, such as yourself).

Much of the campaign led by the "Yes on Proposition 8" crowd was centered around the fear-mongering idea that if gay marriage was passed, children would be exposed to homosexual relationships in school, and that banning marriage equality would help prevent that reality.

Fascinatingly, here we are, two years later--and same-sex marriage is still illegal, but what of the "Yes on 8"'s suggestion that banning gay marriage would prevent kids being taught about gay relationships....?

Well... it turns out it simply wasn't true. Feelings of frustration are understandable--I share them, especially since banning marriage equality didn't make a difference in preventing kids from learning about the historical and social realities of gays and lesbians.

Daniel2

[Doctor Ninja]

Are you, seriously, comparing LGBT people to pedophiles?

Nope, but they are intimately connected politically and support each other. (To avoid nausea no CFR is needed - you can research it on your own)

It is just a sign of appeasement for every group out there.

[Libs]

Well then we need some education on protecting the right to disagree with homosexuality vocally too, no?

Not really appropriate for a "public" school setting, IMO. In public school, unless you're breaking the law, we are all equal, regardless of anyone's opinion about a certain "lifestyle". A lot of people think Mormonism is a cult and not a "healthy" lifestyle. Would you really want your kids exposed to those ideas, as a valid opinion about Mormons?

Except that by the time the agenda goes, it is too late to do anything about it. That is the problem =/.

I don't think so. You can always petition your Congressperson. But, seriously, if your wishes are discriminatory, then they are not going to fly, I wouldn't think.

I'd love to have it be that way, but this part makes me think otherwise: "It also would prohibit material that reflects adversely on gays."

Why would you want material that "reflects adversely on gays" in our public schools? I mean, seriously...

I would too, but it's too risky imho. I'm not willing to take that risk, sorry =/.

Yes, I do... remember we had the conversation about Cal State Fullerton? =D.

We live within 20-30ish minutes of each other, I think =).

Ninja Wishes,

TAO

Ack! I totally forgot about that! Sorry! )

[Libs]

Nope, but they are intimately connected politically and support each other. (To avoid nausea no CFR is needed - you can research it on your own)

It is just a sign of appeasement for every group out there.

You have no proof of that and it's simply not true. I know what organization you're talking about, and it's very fringy.

[TAO]

TAO,

As I understand it, this particular legislation is not about preventing bullying of LGBT teens, but about teaching history regarding worthwhile contributions made by LGBT individuals, as well as individuals with disabilities (which, I would assume, would include individuals who struggle with Aspergers, such as yourself).

Except it does not only do that. Again the clause, anything reflecting on gays negatively will not be included. In other words, promotion.

Much of the campaign led by the "Yes on Proposition 8" crowd was centered around the fear-mongering idea that if gay marriage was passed, children would be exposed to homosexual relationships in school, and that banning marriage equality would help prevent that reality.

And here we are. It is happening.

Fascinatingly, here we are, two years later--and same-sex marriage is still illegal, but what of the "Yes on 8"'s suggestion that banning gay marriage would prevent kids being taught about gay relationships....?

It wasn't enough to stop it apparently.

Well... it turns out it simply wasn't true. Feelings of frustration are understandable--I share them, especially since banning marriage equality didn't make a difference in preventing kids from learning about the historical and social realities of gays and lesbians.

Daniel2

I disagree... I am not feeling frustration right now... I am feeling irritation. I am feeling the urge to do something.

[blackstrap]

NAMBLA is waiting in the wings,or on the playground,or beside the theatre,or,,, pick a spot.

Please avoid extreme comparisons.

As for the OP , when I studied history there was no mention of what a particular person had that was " special " race,gender,disability etc. we focused on what was accomplished and just assumed that the person was...human.

From what I've seen, it is the secular progressive types that love to point out the character flaws,or foibles, or dirty laundry of a nation's historical figures .

[TAO]

Not really appropriate for a "public" school setting, IMO. In public school, unless you're breaking the law, we are all equal, regardless of anyone's opinion about a certain "lifestyle".

And yet, they are breaking their own rule by saying my opinion that such actions are not correct, is of less value than their opinion that such actions are correct. Again, no critiques of the lifestyle will be allowed in the text. That certainly isn't equal.

A lot of people think Mormonism is a cult and not a "healthy" lifestyle. Would you really want your kids exposed to those ideas, as a valid opinion about Mormons?

They already are. Take a look at 8th grade middle school text books and such. Very briefly, but they already are.

I don't think so. You can always petition your Congressperson. But, seriously, if your wishes are discriminatory, then they are not going to fly, I wouldn't think.

I was thinking of more getting it to be put on the ballot, for removal. The State gov passed it majorly, so the people will have to pass this one.

Why would you want material that "reflects adversely on gays" in our public schools? I mean, seriously...

No, I would not want that. But I think it's inappropriate to include promotions to that lifestyle, without any critiques. Thus, if they are going to promote it via this manner, critiques are necessary for balance. But to be honest, I would rather have no promotions or critique either way.

Ack! I totally forgot about that! Sorry! )

Tis okay =).

Somber Wishes,

TAO

[frankenstein]

51500. A teacher shall not give instruction and a school district shall not sponsor any activity that reflects adversely upon persons on the basis of

race or

ethnicity,

gender,

religion,

disability,

nationality,

sexual orientation, or

because of a characteristic listed in Section 220.

link to bill (amended)

What do you do, though, you get involved by attending and speaking at school board meetings and the like. I tend to agree with Libs. There are several on this board who seemingly lump homosexual with rapist, pedophiles and incestuous person.

[TAO]

Tao, have you read the bill? The bill prohibits teaching adversely about many things, including religion.

So what, my friend? That won't help much, because adversely teaching against religion is interpreted differently by different people.

I would like to read the bill. Even with that religious clause, I still very much oppose it, it is something not to be borne.

[TAO]

A teacher shall not give instruction and a school district shall not sponsor any activity that promotes a discriminatory bias on the basis of race or ethnicity, gender, religion, disability, nationality, sexual orientation, or because of a characteristic listed in Section 220.

This clause is also troubling. =( That may mean no eagle scout projects at schools perhaps. Among other things.

No, this is not the right law to pass at all =/.

[Libs]

From TAO's link:

Democratic Assemblyman Tom Ammiano of San Francisco says SB48 is crucial because of the bullying that happens to gay students. Republicans called it a well-intentioned but ill-conceived bill and raised concerns that it would indoctrinate children to accept homosexuality.

Statements like this concern me. Children do need to "accept homosexuality", at least, to the degree that GLBT persons have the same rights as any other citizen and cannot be discriminated against, in public institutions. That means you cannot treat them, as inferior, no matter what your personal beliefs might be. Education in this direction would be a very good thing.

As far as having GLBT people in our history books, I think that would be great (and apparently some are already there). As with the ongoing tradition, we have established, in regards to other minorities and previously persecuted groups, it helps with self esteem, when one can see the accomplishments of someone like themselves...someone of the same race or gender...or sexual orientation. This is something kids need...and something our country needs, if we really are serious about embracing the true diversity of this great nation.

[california boy]

We don't seem to know exactly what causes someone to be homosexual, but even the church acknowledges that some people are wired to be homosexual. There is definitely a certain percentage of the population that is gay. I think everyone can agree with that fact. That group of people have also contributed to civilization through the arts, politically, militarily and other ways. Society would be less enriched without the plays of Oscar Wild, and Noel Coward, the art of Michelangelo and Leonardo Di Vinci, the philosophy of Socrates or the music of Tchaikovsky.

And certainly when you read a statement like Blackstrap and other that like to compare the criminal activity of pedophile that preys on underaged minors without their consent, to gay people, education about gay people is definitely needed.

When I was in school I learned about Helen Keller, and my fear of handicapped people decreased. I learned about important George Washington Carver and my feel of blacks decreased. I learned about Buddha, Mohammed and yes even Joseph Smith and my fear of people that had different beliefs decreased. It is part of being educated. When we can be educated to see the good in those that are different than us, then we are less likely to demonize them just because we do not agree with their choices or beliefs.

It certainly is within the teachings of Christ to see the good in others. Educating people about the good gay people seems within the goals of what Christ taught.

[Mordecai]

They should also have the history of people with foot fetishes.

[Jaybear]

This clause is also troubling. =( That may mean no eagle scout projects at schools perhaps. Among other things.

No, this is not the right law to pass at all =/.

Do eagle scout projects promote discrimination?

Is that really the best example you can come up with to rationalize your objection?

[Doctor Ninja]

You have no proof of that and it's simply not true. I know what organization you're talking about, and it's very fringy.

I hope by "fringy" you mean evil.

All you have to do is read their own charter and who they are "inspired" by.

The Dutch have the same political alliance. My link

[Jaybear]

I hope by "fringy" you mean evil.

All you have to do is read their own charter and who they are "inspired" by.

The Dutch have the same political alliance. My link

And this is relevant ... how?

[cdowis]

Do eagle scout projects promote discrimination?

Is that really the best example you can come up with to rationalize your objection?

The people of California passed an initiative that basically turned over the running of the school systems to the state, rather than to the local school boards. They then elected legislators and a governor who decided to use their power for social engineering.

My objection is that the parents have lost control over the social values taught in the schools -- e.g. the principles taught in scouting are bad, while sexual deviance is praiseworthy.

Schools are not allowed to teach religious values, but they are forced to teach the religion of "tolerance". Not just tolerance, but advocacy of a certain set of values.

As I remember, a court case decision in MA now allows the schools to teach such classes without allowing the parents to opt out.

Jaybear, do you know understand our objection now? We don't want to have these values to be forced upon our children. Where does this stop == educational films, workshops, school projects, field trips......

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/landmark-gay-history-bill-goes-calif-governor-222837028.html

The crucial part:

They are effectively eliminating our right to protest, by forcing the education upon schools. The downward slide has begun.

This is the sorta thing we need a petition to remove, don't you think?

Sorrowful Wishes,

TAO =(

It would appear it is time for the Mormons (any believer) to leave Sodom and Gomorrah.