Evangelizing At Lds Sites

[Libs]

No. There are two churches only and only LDS are part of the body of Christ.

I think there must be some differences of opinion on this' date=' as my Bishop told us (in a GD class) that there were many others, than just LDS, who belonged to the Body of Christ, and potentially some LDS who did [i']not belong to the Body of Christ. (Totally another subject, but interesting)

[AddamS]

Expositor:

Keep your front door. Who knows it may even stop something from getting in that you don't want. We have the right to speak, you have the right not to listen.

"I disagree with what you say but, I would defend to the death, your right to say it".

Attributed to Voltair.

I was the thinking of plastering over it and just going in through the garage. Not seriously, but I'm wondering what is so magical about a front door that it automatically assumes you want people knocking on it.

I know you have a right to speak, I just don't want to hear it on my private property. If we're on the sidewalk, sure.

[Doctor Ninja]

Perhaps I should make mine clear:

No Solicitation of goods, services, or Gods.

If you're here for these puposes you have been advised to leave the property.

If you do not leave, you are trespassing and will be reported to the police and charges filed.

Would that work?

I'm going to need a bigger door!

Hypothetically that would work. But then you get those rascals like me who knocked on doors that said: "No Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses" with a dog/gun symbol or a cross out of "NO CULTS" like that is going to stop anyone.

Or you could decided, "you know what, these are some mom's kids who are trying to do a good thing, I might not agree with them, but I can be a true Christian and let them in my home from the hot sun and offer them a drink".

I guarantee you, that if you told the missionaries you weren't interested in speaking of God or any message they would respect your wishes and they would respect you for the nice cold drink. You would also see that they aren't that "scary" and would even be friendly enough to offer to mow your lawn.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Doctor Ninja

[thesometimesaint]

Libs:

The Body of Christ is the members of his Church. However there are many many good people that are not members of his Church. They lead Christ like lives. The Lord will judge them fairly, and no one will be denied the opportunity to hear and fully understand the Restored Gospel. Whether they accept or reject it is totally up to them.

[blueadept]

I always thought the missionaries should carry a 2nd badge that said 'free help.' I will admit to taking advantage of that when I was temporarily disabled. Good stuff.

[AddamS]

Hypothetically that would work. But then you get those rascals like me who knocked on doors that said: "No Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses" with a dog/gun symbol or a cross out of "NO CULTS" like that is going to stop anyone.

Wow, how inconsiderate of you.

Or you could decided, "you know what, these are some mom's kids who are trying to do a good thing, I might not agree with them, but I can be a true Christian and let them in my home from the hot sun and offer them a drink".

I guarantee you, that if you told the missionaries you weren't interested in speaking of God or any message they would respect your wishes and they would respect you for the nice cold drink. You would also see that they aren't that "scary" and would even be friendly enough to offer to mow your lawn.

I'm always friendly and politely ask them to leave and wish them good luck. If they persist I stay cool and just keep saying good luck to them. If they really persist I keep saying it as I slowly shut the door. I don't think any of these actions are out of line. I used to get rude, but grew out of that a few years back.

I have, when it's really hot, offered a cold bottle of water or a pop to take with them but sent them on their way just the same.

I don't know what this behavior has to do with being a true Christian as I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (or a "God" for that matter). I don't find them scary and I have gardener already, I just don't want to be bothered.

[Libs]

Libs:

The Body of Christ is the members of his Church. However there are many many good people that are not members of his Church. They lead Christ like lives. The Lord will judge them fairly, and no one will be denied the opportunity to hear and fully understand the Restored Gospel. Whether they accept or reject it is totally up to them.

Right. So, surely, those who would go to Christ's Kingdom (the Terrestrial), those who believe in Christ and believe they are following him, would be considered a part of the Body of Christ, whether they were LDS are not...right?

[thesometimesaint]

Libs:

They don't neccessarily have to be LDS, or even Christian in this life. The Hindu who is a good person will be judged on what he did with what he knew, including the intents of his heart. The same as a LDS.

[Libs]

Libs:

They don't neccessarily have to be LDS, or even Christian in this life. The Hindu who is a good person will be judged on what he did with what he knew, including the intents of his heart. The same as a LDS.

Cool. Thanks, SS.

[Doctor Ninja]

Wow, how inconsiderate of you.

I used to get rude, but grew out of that a few years back.

And of course "being rude" is never inconsiderate.

[Yirgacheffe]

Perhaps I should make mine clear:

No Solicitation of goods, services, or Gods.

If you're here for these puposes you have been advised to leave the property.

If you do not leave, you are trespassing and will be reported to the police and charges filed.

Would that work?

I'm going to need a bigger door!

In my community and the surrounding ones a simple No Solicitor sign covers all good, services and Gods plus politics.

[cdowis]

In my community and the surrounding ones a simple No Solicitor sign covers all good, services and Gods plus politics.

I think that the Constitution covers freedom of speech, including religion and politics. I would be interested if a simple sign would hold up in court to stop missionary work in a general neighborhood. I seem to remember that the JW's took it to court and won.

Edited July 1, 2011 by cdowis

[BCSpace]

No. There are two churches only and only LDS are part of the body of Christ.

I think there must be some differences of opinion on this, as my Bishop told us (in a GD class) that there were many others, than just LDS, who belonged to the Body of Christ, and potentially some LDS who did not belong to the Body of Christ. (Totally another subject, but interesting)

Yes, a very interesting topic. I might begin defending my position in two ways before I headed to the BoM:

1. D&C 76 implies that the Celestial and Terrestial kingdoms are inhabited only by LDS (or ancient equivalent). Also, I don't believe any christians other than LDS have the testimony of Christ which I feel is necessary to be part of the body.

2. JS-H 1:19 puts the doctrines of other christian churches in the category of "abominable".

etc.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I'd be interested in what that ruling was.

I could be mistaken, but I think I remember my mission president saying that the original case had been pursued by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Again, I believe this is why they stopped charging for their publications but will take 'donations.'

Maybe I need to get rid of my front door?

Or maybe just add a note about not wanting religious visitors? That would work for me. I'm quite happy to respect people's agency.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Hypothetically that would work. But then you get those rascals like me who knocked on doors that said: "No Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses" with a dog/gun symbol or a cross out of "NO CULTS" like that is going to stop anyone.

I've never in my life seen anything like that, but it would easily stop me. I'm keen to give people the opportunity to hear about the Best Thing in the Universe, but I'm equally willing to respect their requests not to.

Or you could decided, "you know what, these are some mom's kids who are trying to do a good thing, I might not agree with them, but I can be a true Christian and let them in my home from the hot sun and offer them a drink".

That sounds like my mission. People nearly fell over themselves being kind and generous. They would apologise repeatedly for not being interested in our message and then offer us cold or hot drinks according to the season. I genuinely feel sorry for missionaries who serve in areas like I live in now, where people regularly savage them on their doorsteps.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Wow, how inconsiderate of you.

I agree.

I don't find them scary and I have gardener already, I just don't want to be bothered.

I understand. But it's a bit like how the Do Not Call list in the country where I live blocks commercial telemarketers but still allows non-profit organisations like the Red Cross, the WWF, and political polling agencies to ring anyone. I assume it's the same in America.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Hamba Tuhan

[TAO]

Right. So, surely, those who would go to Christ's Kingdom (the Terrestrial), those who believe in Christ and believe they are following him, would be considered a part of the Body of Christ, whether they were LDS are not...right?

You don't have to be LDS to obtain the Celestial =).

Edited July 2, 2011 by TAO

[blueadept]

You don't have to be LDS to obtain the Celestial =).

I've never had the opinion that this is a common belief amongst the LDS membership. Perhaps that would be a good poll question for the LDS board members. If nothing else, I believe it would show a misconception that non-members definitely have about Mormonism IMHO.

Just a thought

[Yirgacheffe]

I think that the Constitution covers freedom of speech, including religion and politics. I would be interested if a simple sign would hold up in court to stop missionary work in a general neighborhood. I seem to remember that the JW's took it to court and won.

Why shouldn't a sign hold up. Why should one persons right to practice their religion supersede the property owners right to say who is not allowed on their property?

It's my understanding that they won on "gated communities" putting up signs for the whole neighborhood or subdivision and that cities can not require licensing of proselytizers. For individual property owners though a no soliciting sign ordinances can include proselytizers.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Yirgacheffe

[cdowis]

Why shouldn't a sign hold up. Why should one persons right to practice their religion supersede the property owners right to say who is not allowed on their property?

According to wiki, "the term solicitation implies some part of commercial element, consideration, or payment".

Missionary work is not soliciting. If the owner puts a "no trespassing" sign on his property -- denying entry to anyone, then it would apply to them.

A city may prohibit solicitation on public property, such as an airport, but the courts have made it clear that religious groups are exempt from those rules.

Once the missionaries have entered a private property, the owner is free to ask them to leave, which protects his property rights.

Edited July 2, 2011 by cdowis

[TAO]

I've never had the opinion that this is a common belief amongst the LDS membership. Perhaps that would be a good poll question for the LDS board members. If nothing else, I believe it would show a misconception that non-members definitely have about Mormonism IMHO.

Just a thought

I'm not sure I'd be able to support it with scripture. It's just something I know... weird like that =).

I believe it because I know the justice of God, I guess. He loves us all, and will give us all the opportunity, at this time, or another, I hope.

But others may disagree with my opinion on the issue... so don't take me on it. It is what i think.

Edited July 2, 2011 by TAO

[Doctor Ninja]

I agree.

Okay, okay. It was inconsiderate.

I am sure the people of Ammonihah thought the same of Alma when he returned after they blatantly rejected him. Today, "signs" will not have a chance to testify against those who reject the Gospel for whatever reason, it is up to the missionaries (and us) to warn everyone including those who are "inconvenienced" or have signs. That's what we did, but that is just me and they still had the "choice" to reject us (the Lord).

[Yirgacheffe]

According to wiki, "the term solicitation implies some part of commercial element, consideration, or payment".

Missionary work is not soliciting. If the owner puts a "no trespassing" sign on his property -- denying entry to anyone, then it would apply to them.

A city may prohibit solicitation on public property, such as an airport, but the courts have made it clear that religious groups are exempt from those rules.

Once the missionaries have entered a private property, the owner is free to ask them to leave, which protects his property rights.

No it does not a property owner has the right to refuse to allow solicitors on his property a posted sign protects his rights.

Solicitation is not limited to commercial elements according to MW on line

1

a : to make petition to : entreat b : to approach with a request or plea <solicited Congress for funding>

2

: to urge (as one's cause) strongly

3

a : to entice or lure especially into evil b : to proposition (someone) especially as or in the character of a prostitute

4

: to try to obtain by usually urgent requests or pleas <solicited donations>

Missionary activities fall in these definitions and cities can (and do) include religious proselytizing in their "no soliciting" sign ordinances.

[Sleeper Cell]

... But knocking on someone's door unannounced to push whatever product is being pushed is plain rude. I'm not singling out the LDS Missionaries here. I'm a big fan of Heinz 57 Ketchup, but I don't go around my neighborhood disturbing my neighbors to tell them how great it is. …

And they are FREE to not knock on my door. I have a No Solicitation sign up, that applies to Goods and Gods. Is it that unreasonable to expect to be left alone in the privacy of one's own home?

I presume that Halloween is not your favorite time of year.

Volunteers going door to door is not only legal, it is a long established American tradition. When I was growing up, doing so on behalf of a candidate or a political issue (e.g., circulating a petition) was almost universally considered a civic virtue. Times may be changing; however, volunteers going door to door is still an established American tradition. As such , it seem to me that the onus is not on the volunteers, but on those who wish to opt out. Especially since this can easily be done by posting a simple unambiguous sign to that effect.

BTW, it seems to me that there is a strong correlation between the decline in civility in our political dialog and the shift to relying more on mass media campaign messages and less on “door-to-door” volunteerism.

[Jeff K.]

Here is a good take, in fact it intrigues me.

Here's what Catholic blogger Joe Heschmeyer suggests his fellow believers do when Mormon missionaries knock on their doors: listen, appreciate the good things their church does, find some areas of commonality, then point out, ever so gently, where they get theology and history terribly wrong.

Heschmeyer, who writes for a blog called Shameless Popery, understands the social appeal of Mormonism, especially for less-then-ardent Catholics.

“You have someone, maybe they go to Mass every Sunday and slip out after without talking to anyone. Despite going there for years, they're relatively anonymous, and, in any case, don't see the other parishioners except on Sunday morning,” the D.C. Catholic writes. “Then a couple of Mormons meet with them, and simply act Christian towards them. They don't persuade them (at first), they simply witness through their conduct. Perhaps they'll do a few meals together and get to know one another, and one day, the missionaries will probably invite this person to their church, where the same thing happens: They find a welcoming community.”

Salt Lake Tribune