Why Have A Temple Recommend Process?

[thesometimesaint]

QB:

The TR questions are yes or no, and they are designed as a self reflection tool. It is probably not very wise to see how close we can come to skirting the actual doctrines of the Church.

A trucking company needed a new driver for one of its mountain routes. It interveiwed 3 candidates. The first one claimed he was so good a driver that he able to drive within a foot of the edge of the mountain clff and not sweat. The next applicant claimed to be such a good driver that he was able to drive 6 inches from the edge and not sweat. The last applicant said that he was conscientious enough that he avoided going near the edge altogether. Which one do you suppose got the job?

[KevinG]

Since I started this...

The process for me is an opportunity for self evaluation where some important covenants are concerned. It is also an opportunity for counsel and blessings from my priesthood authority if I am in need.

I have been more nervous in callings where I was responsible for giving the interviews (and discerning what support and counsel I should give) than I have ever been in receiving an interview.

It is most definately an honor system. I never checked up on a member when they declared tithing, chastity, adherance to the word of wisdom, attendance, etc. There is no part of the instuctions given to the interviewer that even hints that this would be appropriate. The instructions for interviewers are very clear and prohibit any follow-up questions or asking for details.

[daz2]

In the sociology of religion, the temple recommend process would be considered a method of social control by the religious institution. Other methods of social control include confession in the the Roman Catholic Church (of which a form exists in our church). Home teaching and visiting teaching are also considered means of social control.

[Deborah]

I pass the physical requirements swimmingly, so there is no difficulty in getting a recommend....

You must be so proud as you go home grinning that you fooled them again.

[Darth_Bill]

>Tithing has nothing to do with money. God has all He needs and other provisions could be made for the support of the Church if He chose to go that route.

Of course tithing is about money. It is statements like this that makes me frequent the board less. If it wasn't about money, then money wouldn't be involved. The church needs money. It always has, it always will. If the church didn't need money, then it wouldn't ask for it, command it, whatever. As with all things, what value is received is subjective. At some point, money was a chicken. Whatever. Money is what we lowly humans use to move wealth, goods and food around. As long as God deals with humans, money, in whatever form, will be involved.

At any point in the church's history, from the first sacrifice of Adam to the building of a ward house, is money not involved?

[KevinG]

In the sociology of religion, the temple recommend process would be considered a method of social control by the religious institution. Other methods of social control include confession in the the Roman Catholic Church (of which a form exists in our church). Home teaching and visiting teaching are also considered means of social control.

As long as those controls depend on the honor and agency of the individual and do not become coercive they are a positive thing IMO. A sociaty with no social conrols devolves into anarchy and division.

[Darth_Bill]

And by the way, tithing is checked. How it is handled by the bishop or otherwise is another matter. As far as I know, there isn't a report in the system that links up temple recommends vs. tithing, but the bishop does look at your contribution at tithing settlement, if you are there or not. He declares to the church if you are a full tithe payer or not, even if you don't meet with him. Again, what he does with that knowledge is his business. As a financial clerk, I don't care one way or the other except to print it out, but the Bishop does see it.

[KevinG]

At any point in the church's history, from the first sacrifice of Adam to the building of a ward house, is money not involved?

My Scout troop budget came very close.

[KevinG]

And by the way, tithing is checked. How it is handled by the bishop or otherwise is another matter. As far as I know, there isn't a report in the system that links up temple recommends vs. tithing, but the bishop does look at your contribution at tithing settlement, if you are there or not. He declares to the church if you are a full tithe payer or not, even if you don't meet with him. Again, what he does with that knowledge is his business. As a financial clerk, I don't care one way or the other except to print it out, but the Bishop does see it.

Yes- but I have never had a Bishop tie the two (tithing settlement and temple recommend) together. There is a reason the two meetings are separate- they have two separate purposes. Even those years where I skipped tithing settlement I still got a temple recommend interview.

I suppose there are Bishops who "keep track" but that is reaching above the mark (or below it).

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You must be so proud as you go home grinning that you fooled them again.

lol.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

In light of some critical statements about the temple recommend process on other threads...

What do you think the purpose(s) of the temple recommend process are? Critics, faithful, faithful critics and critically faithful are all welcome to share and respond.

(I should add - in your own words and experience... Links to authoritative talks on the subject are welcome but please add those as support for your thoughts not in lieu of them.)

A chance to stop and glimpse into one’s soul. Also to hold those accountable in righteous judgment. The second interview is when the participant is warned against entering unworthily during the endowment” And the books were opened”.

[Darth_Bill]

>Yes- but I have never had a Bishop tie the two (tithing settlement and temple recommend) together.

I agree. I haven't seen it either. I don't know what other processing a Bishop would do though. Just saying. Nothing formal but a bishop might remember if his High Priest group leader has a recommend and his tithing payment is 0. It all goes into the "Bozo-puter" in the head. Like I said, I haven't seen a report that does tie the two, but it isn't right to say that there isn't a common element. It isn't right to say that no-one takes a look at it, as in name and total. He does. When I was clerk, I did my utmost to not look at it, because it isn't my business, but it is his.

[KevinG]

>Yes- but I have never had a Bishop tie the two (tithing settlement and temple recommend) together.

I agree. I haven't seen it either. I don't know what other processing a Bishop would do though. Just saying. Nothing formal but a bishop might remember if his High Priest group leader has a recommend and his tithing payment is 0. It all goes into the "Bozo-puter" in the head. Like I said, I haven't seen a report that does tie the two, but it isn't right to say that there isn't a common element. It isn't right to say that no-one takes a look at it, as in name and total. He does. When I was clerk, I did my utmost to not look at it, because it isn't my business, but it is his.

Yup. I took great pains to forget what I saw as a counselor when the deposit bag was zipped up and dropped in the bank window each Sunday. There could be exceptions but in my LDS experience the Bishop would be more likely to ask if we needed help than question our temple recommend if our tithing was little or none.

[bookofmormontruth]

The Bishop represents the Lord. He is authorized to act in His stead.

In that light, we are being interviewed by the Lord. A preparation for the final interview.

[bookofmormontruth]

You must be so proud as you go home grinning that you fooled them again.

Thank you for saying what I would have been banned for saying.

One of the first questions "Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the Gospel in these latter days?" would disqualify these people if they were really honest.

[Duncan]

I agree with the idea that it is a self assesment more then anything else but I wonder about this idea though about Bishops are, in the recommend setting at least, representing God. I say that because you can go to two different Bishops and get different things happening, so does God think differently from one Bishop to the next? This idea was picked up by Elder Cecil O. Samuelson of the Seventy

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/Volume%209%20Number%202%2C%202008/holy-habits-and-righteous-routines

"At least two of you in attendance have mentioned to me the frustration that occurs when you have felt it necessary to deny a temple recommend to one of these young people only to see them a few weeks later in the temple with a recommend issued from another unit. This ought not to be. We know that you who work with this highly mobile group of young people carry a tremendous load. We also know, and hope you know as well, that we have policies and procedures established for our use that would not make such an unfortunate occurrence possible. Please make the necessary calls and follow the essential procedures to see that we avoid these kinds of errors".

of course it is a mistake but if God is represented by these men then what does that say about God?

[Nathair/|\]

I wonder if I am the jester , or more poignantly, if someone else knows they are jesting.

"Jest the facts ma'am.

Well, you made me laugh.

[KevinG]

of course it is a mistake but if God is represented by these men then what does that say about God?

It says he respects our agency and our callings are more about us learning to be more Christlike in our judgements than they are about us "running" His church.

There was a plan proposed by one of His children that would have skipped over the messy agency part.

[Duncan]

It says he respects our agency and our callings are more about us learning to be more Christlike in our judgements than they are about us "running" His church.

There was a plan proposed by one of His children that would have skipped over the messy agency part.

I can see that but is the Temple the place to learn that just as a mission isn't the place to get a testimony but to share your testimony. Shouldn't we be undefiled before going to the Temple rather then not. It seems that God changes his mind from one Bishop to the next as evidenced by Elder Samuelson

[KevinG]

There is no place were our agency is suspended. Sometimes Bishops are mistaken or bamboozled. But I would think the greater part of responsibility for entering the Temple undefiled lies with the person who signs the recommend last. The individual who's recommend it is.

If we are being completely honest with ourselves and our priesthood authority there really isn't a lot of grey area on receiving a recommend. Elder Samualsens councel to the Bishiops to follow up and be consistent makes sense if you look at the recommend process as a tool to help members attend the Temple when worthy.

[ERMD]

I agree with the idea that it is a self assesment more then anything else but I wonder about this idea though about Bishops are, in the recommend setting at least, representing God. I say that because you can go to two different Bishops and get different things happening, so does God think differently from one Bishop to the next? This idea was picked up by Elder Cecil O. Samuelson of the Seventy

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/Volume%209%20Number%202%2C%202008/holy-habits-and-righteous-routines

"At least two of you in attendance have mentioned to me the frustration that occurs when you have felt it necessary to deny a temple recommend to one of these young people only to see them a few weeks later in the temple with a recommend issued from another unit. This ought not to be. We know that you who work with this highly mobile group of young people carry a tremendous load. We also know, and hope you know as well, that we have policies and procedures established for our use that would not make such an unfortunate occurrence possible. Please make the necessary calls and follow the essential procedures to see that we avoid these kinds of errors".

of course it is a mistake but if God is represented by these men then what does that say about God?

It says nothing about God. It says that the men performing the interviews can make mistakes, hence his statement, "..follow the essential procedures to see that we avoid these kinds of errors."

All who perform these interviews--stake presidents, bishops, branch presidents, and their counselors, and mission presidents do represent the Lord when fulfilling this role. As such, the responsibility must be approached humbly and with great care.

[Duncan]

It says nothing about God. It says that the men performing the interviews can make mistakes, hence his statement, "..follow the essential procedures to see that we avoid these kinds of errors."

All who perform these interviews--stake presidents, bishops, branch presidents, and their counselors, and mission presidents do represent the Lord when fulfilling this role. As such, the responsibility must be approached humbly and with great care.

but it seems that God makes mistakes though if his representatives do, because they are a reflection of him and if they make mistakes then something went screwy somwhere I don't want to believe that or have to believe that!

[KevinG]

God delegates authority to imperfect servants. If we seek to fool those servants the sin is on our head and not a condemnation of the servant or reflection on God's perfection.

If a servant of God makes a mistake and we obey them the error is upon their head and we will be accounted as though we obeyed God.

This places a great responsibility on us to sustain our leaders and do our best to support them in making the right decisions. This involves honest counseling and ultimately trusting the decisions of those authorities. This is not to say that we obey blindly or do things we know to be wrong because an authority says so.

The pairing of personal revelation, authoritative revelation within its sphere of influence and the established laws of the Gospel is a safeguard to insure that honest mistakes are few and dishonesty is eventually held accountable.

[Duncan]

In the real lived experience I have gone to two different leaders with the same issue and both have told me different things, so I learned not to stress about it because if they have differing opinions then how am I supposed to know what God thinks and if there are differing opinions then obviously it didn't matter to God to settle it.

[KevinG]

An analogy:

I go on a date with my childrens mother.

I tell their older brother to feed them a nutricious meal.

I tell them to eat what their brother serves.

Their brother serves them ice cream and cake.

They obey their brother and get sick.

That doesn't negate my instructions or authority as a father even though my eldest was my representative with my authority at the time.