The Terestrial Kingdom

[inquiringmind]

I have a little booklet called "The Plan of Salvation," printed by the LDS Church.

On page 14, it says the Terrestrial Kingdom is for "People who refuse to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives."

Is that LDS doctrine?

If doctrine has to be voted on, are the contents of a booklet like this voted on and approved before it's printed?

And what's meant by "refuse"?

It seems it must (at least) be speaking of those who've heard the LDS Gospel, but what about those who've had this "burning in the bossom," and then refuse?

And what is the "burning in the bossom"?

I've been thinking of an old Protestant hym that goes "I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart," is that what Latter Day Saints mean by a burning in the bossom?

[thesometimesaint]

inquiringmind:

The pamphlet itself of course can not be LDS doctrine. But it does do a good job of summing up LDS doctrine on the Terrestrial Kingdom.

As a general rule yes a proposed doctrine is sustained before it becomes doctrine. Though sometimes that happens at the next General Conference.

When presented with all the pertinent information still don't accept it.

A witness of the Holy Ghost is something else.

It can involve that feeling, but it is much much more.

[BCSpace]

On page 14, it says the Terrestrial Kingdom is for "People who refuse to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives."

Is that LDS doctrine?

Yes. The caveat would be if they refuse it in this life. In D&C 76, we find that the Terrestial is for those who accept the Gospel but are not valiant in it and those who do not accept the Gospel in this life but afterwards accept it.

If doctrine has to be voted on, are the contents of a booklet like this voted on and approved before it's printed?

Doctrine is not voted on.

"With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications."

In other words, if the Church publishes it, it is official doctrine. So TSS above is incorrect. The pamphlet is doctrine.

And what's meant by "refuse"?

It seems it must (at least) be speaking of those who've heard the LDS Gospel, but what about those who've had this "burning in the bossom," and then refuse?

I haven't seen defined anywhere what constitutes an opportunity to refuse. I suspect it's different for everyone and their different circumstances, but ultimately I think for everyone it involves the witness of the Holy Spirit and I would include the burning of the bosom with that.

And what is the "burning in the bossom"?

I've been thinking of an old Protestant hym that goes "I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart," is that what Latter Day Saints mean by a burning in the bossom?

I think it could work like that. It's like a steady flame, a knowledge or a comfirmation that what I'm hearing is right and true. But it is not actual fire or "heartburn". The NT apostles record the experience (Luke 24:32) but don't give any futher description.

[Kingsson]

Yes. The caveat would be if they refuse it in this life. In D&C 76, we find that the Terrestial is for those who accept the Gospel but are not valiant in it and those who do not accept the Gospel in this life but afterwards accept it.

Doctrine is not voted on.

"With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications."

In other words, if the Church publishes it, it is official doctrine. So TSS above is incorrect. The pamphlet is doctrine.

I haven't seen defined anywhere what constitutes an opportunity to refuse. I suspect it's different for everyone and their different circumstances, but ultimately I think for everyone it involves the witness of the Holy Spirit and I would include the burning of the bosom with that.

I think it could work like that. It's like a steady flame, a knowledge or a comfirmation that what I'm hearing is right and true. But it is not actual fire or "heartburn". The NT apostles record the experience (Luke 24:32) but don't give any futher description.

[1] There are only two spiritual Kingdoms acording to the Bible, God's Kingdom and satans kingdom, You are in one or the other, There is no middle groung.

[2]There is no chance after death, You are either born again and go to heaven when you die or you aren't born again and you go to hell,

[3] When a person is baptised in the Holy Ghost & fire, Their hearts burn within them Just like it did in the two in LK 24: 32. Mine does.

And the baptism in the Holy Ghost gives you tongues of fire.

[Alla]

I have a little booklet called "The Plan of Salvation," printed by the LDS Church.

On page 14, it says the Terrestrial Kingdom is for "People who refuse to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives."

And what's meant by "refuse"?

I believe that those who had an opportunity to have discussions with full time missioneries and didn't believe will live in the world with Terrestrial Glory. It makes more sence to me that they are those who felt Spirit during discussions. They believed that it was true at that moment when Spirit, but they still decided to reject Good News - Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If soemone didn't feel Spirit during discussions will have another opportunity in Spirit world. That is what I think. But I am not sure. It only makes sence to me. There are so many things to learn, it is hard to know everything about mormonism right away.

And what is the "burning in the bossom"?

"Burning in the bossom" it is when there is this feeling of something that fills the soul, very warm. it is opposite of fear when it feels like somebody put peice of ice in your bossom.

Burning in the bossom is not the only thing that shows to me that I felt Holy Ghost.

[BCSpace]

[1] There are only two spiritual Kingdoms acording to the Bible, God's Kingdom and satans kingdom, You are in one or the other, There is no middle groung.

That is incorrect.

1) The Bible is not the the only and complete word of God.

2) The Bible does teach in 1 Corinthians 15 that the spiritual realm is divided into at least three glories.

3) The early orthodox Christians taught multiple degrees of salvation/resurrection almost exactly like we LDS do and used 1 Cor 15 as a reference. While we don't look to the ECF (Early Christian Fathers) for doctrine, it does illustrate that any christians who don't accept this doctrine are in a state of apostasy.

[2]There is no chance after death, You are either born again and go to heaven when you die or you aren't born again and you go to hell,

Also incorrect. For example, the Bible teaches that the gospel is preached to the long dead in 1 Peter 3 and 4. The ECF taught the same. There is indeed a seperation at death. Several in fact. But it obviously doesn't end there even according to the Bible.

[3] When a person is baptised in the Holy Ghost & fire, Their hearts burn within them Just like it did in the two in LK 24: 32. Mine does.

And the baptism in the Holy Ghost gives you tongues of fire.

I think most LDS can take what you say here at face value and not have a problem with it.

[Garden Girl]

Hello Kingsson...

Well, you have listed above your view and belief... We, as Latter-Day Saints on a LDS board give our views and beliefs... you are free to reject them outright, or to ponder them and at least consider them.

I find the wham/bam Heaven or Hell approach lacking. For instance, the problem I see is all the fine, wonderful, compassionate people in the world who for whatever reason never had the opportunity to fully hear and understand teachings about the Savior. Yet they are honest, charitable and moral in behavior and in their heart. In your view, these people would be sent to hell with the murderers, whoremongers, thieves and liars. Somehow, to me, that does not denote a just God.

I love the LDS teaching on degrees of Glory... see also 1 Cor 15:39-42...

I had a family member lose a favorite aunt... a truly wonderful woman, but one who did not attend any particular church. The family member went to her pastor for help and comfort in her grief, and the pastor proceeded to tell her that the woman was going to be in hell... hmmmmm. I can't accept that at all.

GG

[zerinus]

I have a little booklet called "The Plan of Salvation," printed by the LDS Church.

On page 14, it says the Terrestrial Kingdom is for "People who refuse to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives."

Is that LDS doctrine?

If doctrine has to be voted on, are the contents of a booklet like this voted on and approved before it's printed?

And what's meant by "refuse"?

It seems it must (at least) be speaking of those who've heard the LDS Gospel, but what about those who've had this "burning in the bossom," and then refuse?

And what is the "burning in the bossom"?

I've been thinking of an old Protestant hym that goes "I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart," is that what Latter Day Saints mean by a burning in the bossom?

All the information about the Terrestrial kingdom are revealed in these verses:

D&C 76

:

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

D&C 88

:

21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

That is all that God has revealed about the Terrestrial kingdom, and who gets there an who won't, and why. Once you have read those, you know as much as any Mormon can tell you.

[frankenstein]

That is incorrect.

1) The Bible is not the the only and complete word of God.

2) The Bible does teach in 1 Corinthians 15 that the spiritual realm is divided into at least three glories.

3) The early orthodox Christians taught multiple degrees of salvation/resurrection almost exactly like we LDS do and used 1 Cor 15 as a reference. While we don't look to the ECF (Early Christian Fathers) for doctrine, it does illustrate that any christians who don't accept this doctrine are in a state of apostasy.

Also incorrect. For example, the Bible teaches that the gospel is preached to the long dead in 1 Peter 3 and 4. The ECF taught the same. There is indeed a seperation at death. Several in fact. But it obviously doesn't end there even according to the Bible.

I think most LDS can take what you say here at face value and not have a problem with it.

Bcspace, would you be interested in making thread on this, with the quotes from the ECF? I would be interested in reading what the ECF wrote.

[Nathair/|\]

Bcspace, would you be interested in making thread on this, with the quotes from the ECF? I would be interested in reading what the ECF wrote.

x2

[frankenstein]

I have a little booklet called "The Plan of Salvation," printed by the LDS Church.

On page 14, it says the Terrestrial Kingdom is for "People who refuse to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives."

Is that LDS doctrine?

the same statement can be found on old.mormon.org also can be found here

also what is the full title to the pamplet? I can not find it online.

[cdowis]

Here is one person's view ==>

The Terrestial Kingdom is commonly known as "heaven", living with Christ through eternity. People will live as single individuals, with no increase. They were given the opportunity to accept and bind themselves to the covenants which leads one to eternal life with the Father, but decided against it.

[Kingsson]

That is incorrect.

1) The Bible is not the the only and complete word of God.

2) The Bible does teach in 1 Corinthians 15 that the spiritual realm is divided into at least three glories.

3) The early orthodox Christians taught multiple degrees of salvation/resurrection almost exactly like we LDS do and used 1 Cor 15 as a reference. While we don't look to the ECF (Early Christian Fathers) for doctrine, it does illustrate that any christians who don't accept this doctrine are in a state of apostasy.

Also incorrect. For example, the Bible teaches that the gospel is preached to the long dead in 1 Peter 3 and 4. The ECF taught the same. There is indeed a seperation at death. Several in fact. But it obviously doesn't end there even according to the Bible.

I think most LDS can take what you say here at face value and not have a problem with it.

Your Wrong on all your points. You should look to the ECF for doctine, You will learn the truth.

[1] The BIble says you can't add to His word, It also says the Bible is enough to make us compete. So the Bible is the complete word of God

[2]There is only the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of the devil.

[3]The early TRUE CHURCH didn't teach degrees of salvation or resurrection.

[4] If you look at 1 Pet 3, In the original Greek text, and the BIble, You'll see it was Jesus that proclaimed the victory over the devil and demons.

And 1 Pet 4, Jesus was preaching to the olt testament saints.

All this is while He was in the underworld at His death on the cross and before He was resurrected.

Now the gospel has been given to men to preach to the people IN THIS LIFETIME... It is to late once a person dies.

[Nathair/|\]

Your Wrong on all your points. You should look to the ECF for doctine, You will learn the truth.

[1] The BIble says you can't add to His word, It also says the Bible is enough to make us compete. So the Bible is the complete word of God

[2]There is only the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of the devil.

[3]The early TRUE CHURCH didn't teach degrees of salvation or resurrection.

[4] If you look at 1 Pet 3, In the original Greek text, and the BIble, You'll see it was Jesus that proclaimed the victory over the devil and demons.

And 1 Pet 4, Jesus was preaching to the olt testament saints.

All this is while He was in the underworld at His death on the cross and before He was resurrected.

Now the gospel has been given to men to preach to the people IN THIS LIFETIME... It is to late once a person dies.

CFR that any passage in the Bible mentions the Bible as a whole.

[LeSellers]

Bcspace, would you be interested in making thread on this, with the quotes from the ECF? I would be interested in reading what the ECF wrote.

BCSpace can do it if he chooses, and I hope he does, but here's the source I use when looking at the Early Church Fathers. (I have it on CD, but it's free online, too.)

Early Church Fathers at Christian Ethereal Library.

Lehi

[BCSpace]

Your Wrong on all your points. You should look to the ECF for doctine, You will learn the truth

Not so. Looking at the ECF only shows that the closer you get to NT times, the more LDS the early Christian Church looks like. After a few hundred years, the doctrines had been changed wholesale which helps to illustrate the Bible(and ECF) predicted universal apostasy.

Bcspace, would you be interested in making thread on this, with the quotes from the ECF? I would be interested in reading what the ECF wrote.

We could probably do it here. Still seems to be on topic.

Regarding the degrees of salvation; some examples:

Our understanding of the passage [1 Corinthians 15:40-42] indeed is, that the Apostle, wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise in glory, i.e., of the saints, barrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, another glory of the stars." Origen, De Principiis 2:10:2, in ANF 4:294

"And some are connected with the Father, being part of Him, and next to these, those whom our argument now brings into clearer light, those who have come to the Saviour and take their stand entirely with him. And third are those of whom we spoke, who reckon the sun and the moon and the stars to be gods, and take their stand by them. And in the fourth and last place those who submit to soulless and dead idols." Origen, Commentary on John 2:3, in ANF 10:324-325

"And having said this, he ascends again to the heaven, saying, "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon." For as in earthly bodies there is a difference, so also in the heavenly; and that difference no ordinary one, but reaching even to the uttermost: there being not only a difference betwen the sun and moon, and stars, but also between stars and stars. For what though they be all in the heaven? yet some have a larger, others a less share of glory. What do we learn from hence? That although they be all in God's kingdom, all shall not enjoy the same reward; and though all sinners be in hell, all shall not endure the same punishment." John Chrysostom, Homilies on 1 Corinthians 41:4, in NPNF Series 1, 12:251

[Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is ...right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of...medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place, he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation. Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6:14, in ANF 2:506, from Bickmore, Restoring the Ancient Church

"Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed... These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred. And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord... To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught." Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6.14 (ANF 2:506).

"This hidden world includes first of all the heavens. Of these, traditional Judaism knew only three: the heaven of meteors, the heaven of stars and the heaven of God, and this is the scheme employed in the older Jewish apocalyptic. It is this system to which Paul alludes." Some Jewish Christians elaborated the three-heaven system into one of seven or more heavens, but in all cases, beings of various degrees of glory were thought to inhabit them." Jean Daniélou, The Theology of Jewish Christianity, trans. John A. Baker (London: Darton, Longman & Todd, 1964), 174.

And preaching the gospel to and salvation for the dead; some examples:

It was for this reason, too, that the Lord descended into the regions beneath the earth, preaching His advent there also, and [declaring] the remission of sins received by those who believe in Him. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2

And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the Apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades...For it was suitable to the divine administration, that those possessed of greater worth in righteousness, and whose life had been pre-eminent, on repenting of their transgressions, though found in another place, yet being confessedly of the number of the people of God Almighty, should be saved, each one according to his individual knowledge...If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other end but to preach the Gospel, as He did descend; it was but to preach the Gospel to all or to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, to all, then all who believe shall be saved, although they may be of the Gentiles, on making their profession there...Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6:6

When He became a soul, without the covering of the body, He dwelt among those souls which were without bodily covering, converting such of them as were willing to Himself, or those whom He saw, for reasons known to Him alone, to be better adapted to such a course. Origen, Against Celsus, 2:43

These Apostles and teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after falling asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached it not only to those who were asleep, but themselves also gave them the seal of preaching. Accordingly they descended with them into the water and again ascended. The Pastor of Hermas, Sim. 9:16

Both this last and the Clement quote show a belief amazingly similar to LDS belief in that Jesus ordained others to preach the gospel to the dead as per D&C 138:30-34

"We ask you first of all to tell us some of the Scriptures which you allege have been completely cancelled." [Justin quotes some passages which the Jews evidently removed from Esdras and Jeremiah.] And again, from the sayings of some of Jeremiah these have been cut out: "The Lord God remembered His dead people of Israel who lay in the graves; and He descended to preach to them His own salvation." Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 71-72

Etc. etc.

As for the first Christians practicing baptism for the dead:

The NIV Study Bible admits that (regarding 1 Corinthians 15:29, "The present tense suggests that at Corinth people were currently being baptized for the dead." The NIV Study Bible, 1757

"....despite dozens of proposed interpretations, with our limited knowledge (hence the need for modern revelation), we cannot discern exactly why the saints were baptising for the dead in Corinth and exactly what the rite entailed."

R.E. DeMaris, "Corinthian Religion and Baptism for the Dead", Journal of Biblical literature 114(1995):661

Both the Pastor of Hermas in The Pastor of Hermas, Sim 9:16 and Jesus in Epistle of the Apostles, in ANT, 494 also refer to the dead being baptised.

Of course you can't baptise a spirit in real water, but Clement of Alexandria alludes to an interesting concept in the aforementioned Stromata 6:6 that is the well-known Jewish concept of the "correspondence and simultaneity for the earthly and heavenly ritual".

Hence, although not LDS doctrine, it may be that such ordinances are performed in the spirit world to effectualize the ordinances performed vicariously in the world of the living. After all, a spirit must accept the ordinances done for him for it to be effective.

Some adaptations from Bickmore, Restoring the Ancient Church, which I link to here and can be read online.

[BCSpace]

BCSpace can do it if he chooses, and I hope he does, but here's the source I use when looking at the Early Church Fathers. (I have it on CD, but it's free online, too.)

Early Church Fathers at Christian Ethereal Library.

Lehi

I highly recommend that library and use it myself.

[BCSpace]

[1] The BIble says you can't add to His word,

Agreed. But by your own logic, Deuteronomy 4:2 is the end of the Bible.

It also says the Bible is enough to make us compete. So the Bible is the complete word of God

No such verse. The Bible itself even refers to other scripture not extant in the Bible and the pattern is continuing revelation. Accoring to Ephesians 4:11-14, the CHurhc must continue to have living prophets and apostles.

[2]There is only the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of the devil.

Depends on what sense you are talking about but such does not preclude the Biblical doctrine of degrees of resurrection/salvation.

[3]The early TRUE CHURCH didn't teach degrees of salvation or resurrection.

I just proved you wrong. See my above (second above) post.

[4] If you look at 1 Pet 3, In the original Greek text, and the BIble, You'll see it was Jesus that proclaimed the victory over the devil and demons.

No such text. However, Lexically, these are the long dead spirits of men.

And 1 Pet 4, Jesus was preaching to the olt testament saints.

Who were dead yes and not necessarily saints (being disobedient).

All this is while He was in the underworld at His death on the cross and before He was resurrected.

And we know what he did between death and the resurrection thanks to modern revelation.

Now the gospel has been given to men to preach to the people IN THIS LIFETIME... It is to late once a person dies.

Not according to scripture. But now you have introduced a conundrum. Do you now claim that God is a respecter of persons? What about those who have never heard of Jesus Christ or the Gospel? Do you condemn them all to hell? 1 Peter 4:6 is clear that the reason the Gospel is preached to the dead is so that we can all be judged by the same Gospel standard.

[LeSellers]

[1] The BIble says you can't add to His word,

While that is true, it never says He can't add to His word.

It also says the Bible is enough to make us compete. So the Bible is the complete word of God

Call for reference on this one.

Moreover, please show us where the Bible even mentions itself. You know, the 66 books you worship.

[2]There is only the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of the devil.

And ... ?

[3]The early TRUE CHURCH didn't teach degrees of salvation or resurrection.

Fortunately, for our position, they did and do. Unfortuntely, for your position, they did and do. It is fortunate for both of us that they did and do.

[4] If you look at 1 Pet 3, In the original Greek text, and the BIble, You'll see it was Jesus that proclaimed the victory over the devil and demons.

I read the Greek sufficiently well to know you're blowing smoke. I suppose next you'll be telling us that Matt 16:13~19 is saying there will never be a falling away, too. But you'd be just as wrong on that one as you are here.

And 1 Pet 4, Jesus was preaching to the olt testament saints.

Not all what it says. Peter tells us that He went to preach to the disobedient spirits of Noah's day. Not to "Old Testament Saints".

All this is while He was in the underworld at His death on the cross and before He was resurrected.

You need to fight with the people who claim that Jesus was in heaven during that three days. After all, if He was in heaven with God the Father, (and the "good thief"), He couldn't have been in Peter's Spirit Prison preaching to Noah's persecutors.

The issue is Why was He there at all?

Now the gospel has been given to men to preach to the people IN THIS LIFETIME... It is to late once a person dies.

Odd—the Bible never says that.

Lehi

[Mark Beesley]

The BIble says you can't add to His word . . .

Where does the Bible say that?

[ERayR]

[1] There are only two spiritual Kingdoms acording to the Bible, God's Kingdom and satans kingdom, You are in one or the other, There is no middle groung.

[2]There is no chance after death, You are either born again and go to heaven when you die or you aren't born again and you go to hell,

[3] When a person is baptised in the Holy Ghost & fire, Their hearts burn within them Just like it did in the two in LK 24: 32. Mine does.

And the baptism in the Holy Ghost gives you tongues of fire.

First I would not call satan's kingdom spiritual. However, if you want to then the Mormon concept still fits quite well. The divisions of glory are all part of

God's kingdom and the the kingdom of no glory is satan's kingdom. All fitting within your parameters and very good Mormon doctrine.

Your point 2: On this I will say I think your interpretations are in error. I am sure you can find proof texts that may be interpreted that way but other can find proof texts that don't. Even your proof texts will be able to be interpreted differently than you interpret them.

Your point 3: I am glad you have received a spiritual experience and would not attempt to diminish it in any way.

[Rob Osborn]

There are two kingdoms- the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. We align ourselves according to the principles of one or the other kingdom. Now of course St. John the Divine records that he saw these two kingdoms at the end of the world and records that all men will be in one kingdom or the other. Those whose names are found written in the Book of Life will have access to the Holy city while those names who are not found in the book will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. So what do we make of the Terrestrial inhabitants?

The terretstrial inhabitants will be all those who live on the earth during the millennium. We may not realize it fully but this earth will be the terrestrial kingdom during the millennium. We may not also realize that part of the plan for our salvation is to progress through both the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms- all kingdoms of God! What we are really after is at the time at the end of the millennium when judgment occurs. At that point all will be resurrected and come to judgment. The books will be opened and those who have done the necessary salvation work will have their names found in the book of life while those who never repented and accepted the gospel wil not be found in the book and thus found on the left hand of God to be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

In the parable of the wheat and the tares it explains this that the tares will be bound and burned. This refers to this last judgment where they are cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. The cultivated wheat on the other hand will be found secured (names secured) to enjoy eternal life with God in his eternal heavenly kingdom.

[Lightbearer]

There are two kingdoms- the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. We align ourselves according to the principles of one or the other kingdom. Now of course St. John the Divine records that he saw these two kingdoms at the end of the world and records that all men will be in one kingdom or the other. Those whose names are found written in the Book of Life will have access to the Holy city while those names who are not found in the book will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. So what do we make of the Terrestrial inhabitants?

The terretstrial inhabitants will be all those who live on the earth during the millennium. We may not realize it fully but this earth will be the terrestrial kingdom during the millennium. We may not also realize that part of the plan for our salvation is to progress through both the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms- all kingdoms of God! What we are really after is at the time at the end of the millennium when judgment occurs. At that point all will be resurrected and come to judgment. The books will be opened and those who have done the necessary salvation work will have their names found in the book of life while those who never repented and accepted the gospel wil not be found in the book and thus found on the left hand of God to be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

In the parable of the wheat and the tares it explains this that the tares will be bound and burned. This refers to this last judgment where they are cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. The cultivated wheat on the other hand will be found secured (names secured) to enjoy eternal life with God in his eternal heavenly kingdom.

That is your unorthodox interpretation of what the Terrestrial Kingdom is, not what the Chruch teaches in their official doctrinal manuals. We have argued over this time and time again so I am not interested in a rehash, but I just wanted to point out to the lurkers this is not the Church's interpretation only yours.

[Rob Osborn]

That is your unorthodox interpretation of what the Terrestrial Kingdom is, not what the Chruch teaches in their official doctrinal manuals. We have argued over this time and time again so I am not interested in a rehash, but I just wanted to point out to the lurkers this is not the Church's interpretation only yours.

Yes it is my interpretation but it is sound and founded upon the very doctrines we uphold and believe in. This explains why those who "died without law" are found in the terrestrial kingdom which BTW, includes little children and others who lived outside of the law (handicapped).

[Eldwynn]

Which Kingdom is the one that they don't sing hymns in? That's the one I want.