The coming of the Islamic Messiah

[PacMan]

There was an interesting article on Drudge, found HERE. Essentially, it says that Iran is pushing the notion of the coming Islamic Messiah - Mahdi - who is to come and defeat non-Muslims, etc. First, is the article accurate in its understanding of the Mahdi? Second, and assuming it is, do the Islamic and Judeo/Christian prophecies necessarily come to a head; i.e. Armageddon, the battle of Gog and Magog, etc.? Does anyone have anything to say about whether these battles may be self-fulfilling, in that they purport diametriacally opposed goals? Is the Middle-East fundamentally an unstopable ticking time-bomb?

PacMan

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

There was an interesting article on Drudge, found HERE. Essentially, it says that Iran is pushing the notion of the coming Islamic Messiah - Mahdi - who is to come and defeat non-Muslims, etc. First, is the article accurate in its understanding of the Mahdi? Second, and assuming it is, do the Islamic and Judeo/Christian prophecies necessarily come to a head; i.e. Armageddon, the battle of Gog and Magog, etc.? Does anyone have anything to say about whether these battles may be self-fulfilling, in that they purport diametriacally opposed goals? Is the Middle-East fundamentally an unstopable ticking time-bomb?

PacMan

Time to get Dr Peterson in here. The only thing I have looked at has been the reliable Wikipedia. It seems to confirm most of these ideas about the Mahdi and the 12 Imam. There also seems to be a split in how the Shia and the Sunni view the Mahdi. I think there are some very interesting things to consider when you view our scripture in light of their doctrine.

[PacMan]

Time to get Dr Peterson in here. The only thing I have looked at has been the reliable Wikipedia. It seems to confirm most of these ideas about the Mahdi and the 12 Imam. There also seems to be a split in how the Shia and the Sunni view the Mahdi. I think there are some very interesting things to consider when you view our scripture in light of their doctrine.

"Calling Dr. Peterson. Dr. Peterson. Please report to the labotomy lab..."

[volgadon]

Just my two cents in, but the Yemenite Jews were influenced by Mahdism, and, interestingly enough, Muslims followed some of the Jewish messianic movements.

[Bill Hamblin]

"Calling Dr. Peterson. Dr. Peterson. Please report to the labotomy lab..."

Doctor P is in Deutchland, spreching a little Deutch for the the FAIR Europe group.

[Bill Hamblin]

Technically speaking, the Mahdi is not the Messiah, since Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah. The Mahdi could be considered messianic in the sense of an expected divinely sent eschatological agent, but this is in addition to Jesus the Messiah.

[SkepticTheist]

Forgive my conspiratorial-ness, but I must chime in on this.

There are reports that George Soros is behind all the uprisings in the middle east.

Ahmadinajad has repeatedly said that he wants a New World Order.

The favored religious movement of the United Nations is known as Theosophy.

The theosophists in the Globalist movement are trying to establish their their "World Teacher" as not only the Christ, but also the Mahdi.

This man is called the Maitreya.

They have been building this thing up for decades, and their organization is called "Share International"

The "prophet" of Maitreya that delivers his messages is known as Benjamin Creme.

Share International is an official United Nations NGO (Non-Governmental Organization), as is the Elders organization. These groups work closely together with the Lucis Trust.

See these websites:

http://www.shareintl.org/

http://www.theelders.org/

http://www.lucistrust.org

Nelson Mandela is a follower of the Maitreya, and he formed the "Elders" organization, headed by Kofi Anan, Jimmy Carter, himself, and many others. These constitute the "Masters of Wisdom" referred to by Benjamin Creme, essentially the Maitreya's "disciples." Look on the Elders site and you will see them all lined up.

These people are seriously setting up the Maitreya as the Mahdi, and all the Islamists in the world are being primed to follow him once the Maitreya has his day of declaration.

Mark my words. This is for real. Maitreya's day of declaration is near, and he will lead Islam eventually against Jerusalem because the UN Security Council will condemn Jerusalem for something.

There was an interesting article on Drudge, found HERE. Essentially, it says that Iran is pushing the notion of the coming Islamic Messiah - Mahdi - who is to come and defeat non-Muslims, etc. First, is the article accurate in its understanding of the Mahdi? Second, and assuming it is, do the Islamic and Judeo/Christian prophecies necessarily come to a head; i.e. Armageddon, the battle of Gog and Magog, etc.? Does anyone have anything to say about whether these battles may be self-fulfilling, in that they purport diametriacally opposed goals? Is the Middle-East fundamentally an unstopable ticking time-bomb?

PacMan

[The Nehor]

Forgive my conspiratorial-ness, but I must chime in on this.

I think you overestimate how many muslims will buy this man being a Messiah.

This guy needs a lot more publicity if he is vying to be the Second Beast of Revelation (the False Prophet).

[SkepticTheist]

I think you underestimate the amount of behind the scenes work that has been done on this thing already.

I think you overestimate how many muslims will buy this man being a Messiah.

This guy needs a lot more publicity if he is vying to be the Second Beast of Revelation (the False Prophet).

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Technically speaking, the Mahdi is not the Messiah, since Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah. The Mahdi could be considered messianic in the sense of an expected divinely sent eschatological agent, but this is in addition to Jesus the Messiah.

This is truly disappointing. Are you really tying to convince people that the Mulsims consider Jesus Christ the Messiah? I am honestly dumbfounded by your post.

[bookofmormontruth]

Iranian Video Says Mahdi is 'Near' My link

[WalkerW]

This is truly disappointing. Are you really tying to convince people that the Mulsims consider Jesus Christ the Messiah? I am honestly dumbfounded by your post.

Um, the Quran states that Jesus is the Messiah (al-Maseeh).

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Um, the Quran states that Jesus is the Messiah (al-Maseeh).

Is not the issue with redards to Jesus, is that he is not the Son of God in the Islam faith?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Um, the Quran states that Jesus is the Messiah (al-Maseeh).

I am sure the verse will be forthcoming so it can be xamined in context.

So Islam teaches the Jesus atoned for our sins and we find salvation through faith in His name? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

[WalkerW]

Is not the issue with redards to Jesus, is that he is not the Son of God in the Islam faith?

Son of God and Messiah aren't necessarily the same thing.

[WalkerW]

So Islam teaches the Jesus atoned for our sins and we find salvation through faith in His name? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

No. You are defining Messiah through your own theological lens. A good number of the Jewish faith didn't accept Jesus' version of the Messiah.

See Quran 3: 45, 4:157, 171, 172, 5:17, 72, 75; 9:30, 31.

4:171 is very explicit: "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master."

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Son of God and Messiah aren't necessarily the same thing.

Let me restate, I think that most Christians have an issue with the Islam faith because Jesus is not divine, ie the Son of God.

GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son.To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master."

Looks like you answered my question before I asked it.

Oh well.

I would be more interested in hearing more about the Mahdi and the 12th Imam.

[WalkerW]

Let me restate, I think that most Christians have an issue with the Islam faith because Jesus is not divine, ie the Son of God.

No argument there.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

No. You are defining Messiah through your own theological lens. A good number of the Jewish faith didn't accept Jesus' version of the Messiah.

See Quran 3: 45, 4:157, 171, 172, 5:17, 72, 75; 9:30, 31.

4:171 is very explicit: "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master."

So you, and William Hamblin, were stating a half-truth. For what purpose is the complete truth being avoided? Fear of offending Mulsim sensabilities?

Hamblin attempted to imply that the "12th Imam" plays second fiddle to Jesus because "they believe Jesus is the Messiah"- knowing full well the meaning of "Messiah" within Christianity. I have lost a great deal of respect for him.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So you, and William Hamblin, are stating a half-truth. For what purpose is the complete truth being avoided? Fear of offending Mulsim sensabilities?

Hamblin attempted to imply that the "12th Imam" plays second fiddle to Jesus because "they believe Jesus is the Messiah"- knowing full well the meaning of "Messiah" within Christianity. I have lost a great deal of respect for him.

This is interesting. We are discussing the Islam faith and you get bent out of shape when a few people suggest that you try to understand terms as a muslim would understand them.

Of course the word Messiah would carry a different definition.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This is interesting. We are discussing the Islam faith and you get bent out of shape when a few people suggest that you try to understand terms as a muslim would understand them.

Of course the word Messiah would carry a different definition.

You clearly don't understand my post.

I don't like being lied to. William Hamblin's post was clearly deceptive, because he understands the concept of Messiah from a Christian perspective. He was trying to do the ecumentical "Muslims are OK, they believe Jesus is the Messiah too. Don't worry about that 12th Imam stuff."

I am fine hearing the Muslim perspective, if it is presented clearly that way. How does Jesus figure into the coming of the 12th Imam from a Muslim perspective? Let's examine that, and see if it jives with what Hamblin posted.

[WalkerW]

So you, and William Hamblin, were stating a half-truth.

What was the half-truth? That the Quran states that Jesus is the Messiah? Considering I demonstrated that, you are free to apologize.

For what purpose is the complete truth being avoided?

See above.

Fear of offending Mulsim sensabilities?

What on earth are you raving about?

I have lost a great deal of respect for him.

Not my problem. And not really his. We can't help that you have narrowly defined the term "Messiah."

[WalkerW]

You clearly don't understand my post.

I think we all understood it quite clearly.

I don't like being lied to

You weren't.

William Hamblin's post was clearly deceptive, because he understands the concept of Messiah from a Christian perspective.

William Hamblin is also a historian of the Middle East. Once again, it is your narrow definition that is the problem.

He was trying to do the ecumentical "Muslims are OK, they believe Jesus is the Messiah too. Don't worry about that 12th Imam stuff."

Really?

I am fine hearing the Muslim perspective, if it is presented clearly that way. How does Jesus figure into the coming of the 12th Imam from a Muslim perspective? Let's examine that, and see if it jives with what Hamblin posted.

Dissect Bill's posts so we can see clearly what is actually bugging you. I have a small inkling that you are reading too much into things.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You clearly don't understand my post.

I don't like being lied to. William Hamblin's post was clearly deceptive, because he understands the concept of Messiah from a Christian perspective. He was trying to do the ecumentical "Muslims are OK, they believe Jesus is the Messiah too. Don't worry about that 12th Imam stuff."

I am fine hearing the Muslim perspective, if it is presented clearly that way. How does Jesus figure into the coming of the 12th Imam from a Muslim perspective? Let's examine that, and see if it jives with what Hamblin posted.

It would seem that Jesus is the Messiah and he will accompany the Mahdi.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The disingenuous abounding here astounds and disturbs me. What hold does Islam have on people? It is now no wonder to me that the world will accept th 12th Imam (anti-Christ) as their God.