100% Proof Quran is The Word Of God - Talk By Dr Zakir Naik

[mfbukowski]

Oh goodness.

Besides, that guy in the OP was wearing a funny hat!!

[jonq1102]

I have a problem believing that any book claiming to be holy that says "Slay the infidels wherever you may find them" is of God.....

[WalkerW]

For a Jew, this statement makes no sense at all cause they think the the Quran, Bible , and Book of Mormon are all wrong and the Talmud is correct.

I'm with volgadon:

[Bill Hamblin]

I have a problem believing that any book claiming to be holy that says "Slay the infidels wherever you may find them" is of God.....

You mean like DT 20:16-17?

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

[Bill Hamblin]

Oh goodness.

Don't you mean "Good Grief!"

[jonq1102]

You mean like DT 20:16-17?

if you look at the context of that and actually look through the qu'ran I assure you I own both and there's a difference

[WalkerW]

if you look at the context of that and actually look through the qu'ran I assure you I own both and there's a difference

Please expound. I'm not big on people using the word "context" without providing any. It isn't some magic word that automatically declares you victor.

[WalkerW]

And feel free to provide the historical context of the Qu'ran's phrasing as well.

[volgadon]

Don't you mean "Good Grief!"

I mean oh goodness in an entirely ironical fashion.

[jonq1102]

And feel free to provide the historical context of the Qu'ran's phrasing as well.

there's nothing to be victor of man relax, it was a general statement meaning that despite the violence in the bible the qu'ran is openly more violent.

here's a brief explanation : http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

[WalkerW]

it was a general statement meaning that despite the violence in the bible the qu'ran is openly more violent.

So you went from saying the Qu'ran couldn't be inspired because of a particular line to arguing that "context" makes Deuteronomy and the Qu'ran different to the Qu'ran is more violent than the violent Bible?

What exactly is your point then? How does a blog post that admits its "analysis does not consider the extent of the cruelty in the marked passages" provide context for the Qu'ranic phrase you gave and the biblical phrase given by Dr. Hamblin?

[volgadon]

there's nothing to be victor of man relax, it was a general statement meaning that despite the violence in the bible the qu'ran is openly more violent.

here's a brief explanation : http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

As general as soldiers are murderers?

That link you provide is somewhat flawed, look at the first two verses compared. Apples and oranges.

[jonq1102]

So you went from saying the Qu'ran couldn't be inspired because of a particular line to arguing that "context" makes Deuteronomy and the Qu'ran different to the Qu'ran is more violent than the violent Bible?

What exactly is your point then? How does a blog post that admits its "analysis does not consider the extent of the cruelty in the marked passages" provide context for the Qu'ranic phrase you gave and the biblical phrase given by Dr. Hamblin?

I guess I didn't phrase my opinion properly in my original post. I just think that after what I've read thus far in my copy islam is not of God.

[volgadon]

For the record, I don't hold that soldiers are necessarily murderers, and I served in the army myself. I just wanted to provide an example of a general statement which means little.

[cksalmon]

there's nothing to be victor of man relax, it was a general statement meaning that despite the violence in the bible the qu'ran is openly more violent.

here's a brief explanation : http://dwindlinginun...e-or-quran.html

Thank you for that, jonq1102. Nearly as I can tell, that was the most inane bit of irrelevant legerdemain I've yet witnessed in apologetic discussions of Islam vs. "Bible" I've yet encountered in 2011.

Truth be told, that's not saying much, as this is actually the first such instance. But, it's some sort of watermark to be sure.

P.S. Now, don't get me wrong. I actually track with Spencer via Jihad Watch regularly. But, this purported objective analysis you've linked to... that's something else.

[jonq1102]

Thank you for that, jonq1102. Nearly as I can tell, that was the most inane bit of irrelevant legerdemain I've yet witnessed in apologetic discussions of Islam vs. "Bible" I've yet encountered in 2011.

Truth be told, that's not saying much, as this is actually the first such instance. But, it's some sort of watermark to be sure.

it was just an interesting link I found. you are taking this way too seriously.... this is just another forum in the sea that is the internet. nothing discussed here is going to really have any impact on the world so stop acting like this is the freakin presidential debates. we're just people shooting words words around on a website.

[cksalmon]

it was just an interesting link I found. you are taking this way too seriously.... this is just another forum in the sea that is the internet. nothing discussed here is going to really have any impact on the world so stop acting like this is the freakin presidential debates. we're just people shooting words words around on a website.

As a bit of counter-advice: Stop treating this forum (and all such fora) so cavalierly. That is, don't post, as reasoned analysis, links you're unwilling to defend. Some (not you, admittedly) of us are not "just people shooting words words around on a website," but actually take significant interest in the intended effects of "words words [shot] around on a website."

That is, one should always be thinking. An internet connection is no excuse for being stupid.

That's lagniappe for you. Following my advice, you might distinguish yourself from most folks both here and at, say, CARM.

[jonq1102]

As a bit of counter-advice: Stop treating this forum (and all such fora) so cavalierly. That is, don't post, as reasoned analysis, links you're unwilling to defend. Some (not you, admittedly) of us are not "just people shooting words words around on a website," but actually take significant interest in the intended effects of "words words [shot] around on a website."

That is, one should always be thinking. An internet connection is no excuse for being stupid.

That's lagniappe for you. Following my advice, you might distinguish yourself from most folks both here and at, say, CARM.

so because i made a mistake in my point and have an opinion different from yours that admittedly I poorly defended for lack of interest, that makes me stupid? Why act so juvenile and resort to insult?

Edit: also the words don't really have any effect, but to get people like you all riled up. again like I said nothing that happens on this site or many many others truly have an effect on anything in the grand scheme of things. why give so much credence to the words of people you barely know? why devote this much argumentative passion here when you could divert it to another place that will have more effect. if you care so much why not spend your time elsewhere in a more impactful environment?

[cksalmon]

so because i made a mistake in my point and have an opinion different from yours that admittedly I poorly defended for lack of interest, that makes me stupid?

Absolutely not, jonq1102.

My point--"One should always be thinking. An internet connection is no excuse for being stupid"--is a bit of general advice that I believe all should aspire to. Most especially me.

I might respond: "you are taking this way too seriously." But, I don't think you are. Rather, we should both take it even more seriously.

Why act so juvenile and resort to insult?

It's only an insult if it's true. Just make sure that it's not true and then the purported "insult" has no sting.

[volgadon]

so because i made a mistake in my point and have an opinion different from yours that admittedly I poorly defended for lack of interest, that makes me stupid? Why act so juvenile and resort to insult?

Edit: also the words don't really have any effect, but to get people like you all riled up. again like I said nothing that happens on this site or many many others truly have an effect on anything in the grand scheme of things. why give so much credence to the words of people you barely know? why devote this much argumentative passion here when you could divert it to another place that will have more effect. if you care so much why not spend your time elsewhere in a more impactful environment?

I think what people are objecting to is that you come in, make some sort of statement, which when asked to explain or backup, fall back on its just words, and then start talking down to us. But then again, maybe we are just wierd that way.

[jonq1102]

Absolutely not, jonq1102.

My point--"One should always be thinking. An internet connection is no excuse for being stupid"--is a bit of general advice that I believe all should aspire to. Most especially me.

I might respond: "you are taking this way too seriously." But, I don't think you are. Rather, we should both take it even more seriously.

It's only an insult if it's true. Just make sure that it's not true and then the purported "insult" has no sting.

an insult doesn't have to be true, i can call my sister a whore but she isn't, it doesn't change the fact that i just insulted her.

[jonq1102]

I think what people are objecting to is that you come in, make some sort of statement, which when asked to explain or backup, fall back on its just words, and then start talking down to us. But then again, maybe we are just wierd that way.

i wasn't talking down to anyone in fact I am the one being insulted by the other guy. i fail to see how i was talking down to anyone. explain please and I would gladly apologize.

[cksalmon]

an insult doesn't have to be true, i can call my sister a whore but she isn't, it doesn't change the fact that i just insulted her.

True enough, jonq1102. I hereby retract any specific insult you felt I made against you. I do not have any intention of insulting you, personally, and where I have seemed to have done so, I was wrong, and I request to take such an insult back.

You are not stupid. Simple as that.

[WalkerW]

also the words don't really have any effect

What?

Language is how humans conceptualize and communicate ideas. It is how they shape their thinking. I'm currently reading economist Deirdre McCloskey's Bourgeois Dignity, which argues that the rhetoric surrounding innovators shifted to a more positive light, thus leading to the social and political changes that allowed for the Industrial Revolution.

I'm afraid that I have to strongly disagree with "words don't really have any effect."

[jonq1102]

What?

Language is how humans conceptualize and communicate ideas. It is how they shape their thinking. I'm currently reading economist Deirdre McCloskey's Bourgeois Dignity, which argues that the rhetoric surrounding innovators shifted to a more positive light, thus leading to the social and political changes that allowed for the Industrial Revolution.

I'm afraid that I have to strongly disagree with "words don't really have any effect."

im not talking about words in general but what we talk about here, read my post again.