LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I can guarantee you that a muslim, jew, etc. will testify that their "texts" are indeed inspired by god, allah, etc. and that the Book of Mormon is the work of man. I am also sure that there are several million muslims who might vigorously argue that the quran contains "ni inspiration in it." They couldn't care less whether their texts fail the "good fruit test of Matthew,".....that's like saying the Book of Mormon fails the test of some holy muslim cleric.....big deal. The lack of logic in these posts is frightening.Well am I a holy muslim cleric?If you don't care why all the fuss?Logic is based on the prospective of your beliefs in many things, as I said previously. Our views are all logical when you put them in prospective of each of ours beliefs.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Well am I a holy muslim cleric?If you don't care why all the fuss?Logic is based on the prospective of your beliefs in many things, as I said previously. Our views are all logical when you put them in prospective of each of ours beliefs.It does seems Walden is pretty put out that we don't just accept his "logic"- That he can't convince that all religions are the same.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Do you realize that there are people who have done this for which they did not receive a confirmation that the Book of Mormon is true? Is your rebuttal that they must not have done so "with real intent." I can recount to you any number of stories of people who struggled for years to receive confirmation that the BoM is true, following the guidlelines set forth in the scriptures to pray and ask with real intent, only to receive nothing.There is no empirical way to determine if someone has real intent, so your claim is unfalsifiable and has absolutely not weight at all LOGICALLY! It cannot be examined, tested, or refuted because there is nothing to measure so you are only derailing and that is doing nothing for the discussion.
Walden Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 There is no empirical way to determine if someone has real intent, so your claim is unfalsifiable and has absolutely not weight at all LOGICALLY! It cannot be examined, tested, or refuted because there is nothing to measure so you are only derailing and that is doing nothing for the discussion.Yes, and the argument that the Book of Mormon is true just "because it is" adds so much to the discussion.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Yes, and the argument that the Book of Mormon is true just "because it is" adds so much to the discussion.Well, it is.
Walden Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 It does seems Walden is pretty put out that we don't just accept his "logic"- That he can't convince that all religions are the same.The only thing that I am put out by is the "logic" that states that the Book of Mormon is true just "because it is"I am not here to convert people to rationalism. If religion makes you happy, then by all rights, be happy.I just cringe when those who try to add to a discussion use the logic that their absolute truth is true just "because it is."
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 The only thing that I am put out by is the "logic" that states that the Book of Mormon is true just "because it is"I am not here to convert people to rationalism. If religion makes you happy, then by all rights, be happy.I just cringe when those who try to add to a discussion use the logic that their absolute truth is true just "because it is."Well, get used to it. I feel it is a miserable waste of effort to try and convince someone, who already dogmatically opposed to the truth, of the error of their stance.
Walden Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Well, get used to it. I feel it is a miserable waste of effort to try and convince someone, who already dogmatically opposed to the truth, of the error of their stance."I feel it is a miserable waste of effort to try and convince someone, who already dogmatically opposed to the truth, of the error of their stance."......funny, I feel exactly the same way. I'm just not as obnoxious about it as others.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 "I feel it is a miserable waste of effort to try and convince someone, who already dogmatically opposed to the truth, of the error of their stance."......funny, I feel exactly the same way. I'm just not as obnoxious about it as others.You seem to spend quite a bit of time on a specifically religious board trying to convince specifically religious people that they are the just the same as any other religion. BTW, is this the only religious board you visit?
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Yes, and the argument that the Book of Mormon is true just "because it is" adds so much to the discussion.Well I am not the one talking about logic so much. I am talking about the Holy Ghost and the Restored Gospel, you are the one bringing up logic here. Yet you fail to follow the things you preach to everyone else!!! There is a word for this but it slips my mind for the moment!
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I'm just not as obnoxious about it as others.No, your usually more obnoxious and preaching one thing while doing another!
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 <br>Well I am not the one talking about logic so much. <br><br>I am talking about the Holy Ghost and the Restored Gospel, you are the one bringing up logic here. Yet you fail to follow the things you preach to everyone else!!! <img src="http://www.mormondialogue.org/public/style_emoticons/default/shok.gif"><br><br>There is a word for this but it slips my mind for the moment!<br><br><br>It's only "logical" if it follows what he believes. If you don't agree with him you are not being "logical".<div><br></div><div>Why is an image of Spock going through my brain?</div>
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 <br><br>It's only "logical" if it follows what he believes. If you don't agree with him you are not being "logical".<div><br></div><div>Why is an image of Spock going through my brain?</div>Cause you want Spock to come and have a logic battle with Walden and smack him around cause his logic is weak when compared to the SPOCK.
Walden Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 You seem to spend quite a bit of time on a specifically religious board trying to convince specifically religious people that they are the just the same as any other religion. BTW, is this the only religious board you visit?I am doing no such thing. My intent was to expose an argument that uses the rationale that a truth is a truth "just because it is"....my child could say the same thing about santa claus.And this is actually the only relgious board that I visit. Having been raised by devout LDS parents in a Mormon household that traces it's roots to my great-great-great grandfather Parley P. Pratt, the LDS religion is of particluar interest to me. I originally came here to try to get some insights regarding how intelligent people come to their faith in the LDS church. After leaving the church, I thought that you all were brainwashed. However, after spending time here at this board, I have certainly seen many fine examples of intelligent people making very rational, educated and convincing arguments for why the church is true. This board has helped me gain a better understanding of my own parent's beliefs and has generally supplied me with a more favorable view of the LDS membership as a whole.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I am doing no such thing. My intent was to expose an argument that uses the rationale that a truth is a truth "just because it is"....my child could say the same thing about santa claus.And this is actually the only relgious board that I visit. Having been raised by devout LDS parents in a Mormon household that traces it's roots to my great-great-great grandfather Parley P. Pratt, the LDS religion is of particluar interest to me. I originally came here to try to get some insights regarding how intelligent people come to their faith in the LDS church. After leaving the church, I thought that you all were brainwashed. However, after spending time here at this board, I have certainly seen many fine examples of intelligent people making very rational, educated and convincing arguments for why the church is true. This board has helped me gain a better understanding of my own parent's beliefs and has generally supplied me with a more favorable view of the LDS membership as a whole.Fair enough... I will, over the next few days, do a search of your post history and issue a "mea culpa" if a majority of your posts aren't essentially about convincing religious folks of the "irrational"/"illogical" thinking of their points of view.
Walden Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Fair enough... I will, over the next few days, do a search of your post history and issue a "mea culpa" if a majority of your posts aren't essentially about convincing religious folks of the "irrational"/"illogical" thinking of their points of view.No doubt that you will find that I might call people out for being irrational or illogical, but it is not because of their religion. You will see in previous posts that I am quite supportive of everyone following their bliss....if god makes you happy, then by all means, follow god. I do however call people out who claim that they have cornered the market on truth and then rationalize that belief with an argument that their truth is the absolute truth just "because it is." I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense and doesn't provide much to discuss on a discussion board (though we seem to have gotten some mileage out of it haven't we)And you are seriously going to spend the "next few days" reviewing my post history.....you do know that there is an NCAA basketball tournament going on....and BYU is even in it, and favored. You must not be a college basketball fan.
Tapir Whisperer Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 And you are seriously going to spend the "next few days" reviewing my post history.....you do know that there is an NCAA basketball tournament going on....and BYU is even in it, and favored. The alternative for him is to stay at home alone on Friday night drinking Orange Crush, listening to a homemade mix cassette of Rush and playing Asteroids on the Atari.Wait.... I think I just described my teenage years from age 14 through 17.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 The alternative for him is to stay at home alone on Friday night drinking Orange Crush, listening to a homemade mix cassette of Rush and playing Asteroids on the Atari.Wait.... I think I just described my teenage years from age 14 through 17.Fanta Orange, Metallica, and Mario Brothers (the original).Go Cougs!
Cold Steel Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I don't know. He sold me! Who but the manufacturer, the inventor, the creator, producer, could have created something as great as Sharia Law? The thing that really gets me is that according to the Qur'an, everything that happens is the will of Allah! But when the Jews continually kick their collective butts, they continue to escalate the violence. If Allah really wanted the Jews out of their ancient ancestral homelands, then why doesn't He grant the believers some significant victories? If I didn't know better, I'd think Allah was on the side of the Jews.Just sayin'.....
Tapir Whisperer Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Fanta Orange, Metallica, and Mario Brothers (the original).Go Cougs!Amen, brother!
zerinus Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 No doubt that you will find that I might call people out for being irrational or illogical, but it is not because of their religion. You will see in previous posts that I am quite supportive of everyone following their bliss....if god makes you happy, then by all means, follow god. I do however call people out who claim that they have cornered the market on truth and then rationalize that belief with an argument that their truth is the absolute truth just "because it is." I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense and doesn't provide much to discuss on a discussion board (though we seem to have gotten some mileage out of it haven't we)And you are seriously going to spend the "next few days" reviewing my post history.....you do know that there is an NCAA basketball tournament going on....and BYU is even in it, and favored. You must not be a college basketball fan.BOML is not a Mormon, although he claims to still believe in the Book of Mormon; and the answers he gives are not typically Mormon ones. I wouldn't say that the Book of Mormon is true "because it is". I would say that it is true because I have received a spiritual witness that convinces me it is true. If you have not received such a witness, I can't argue with that; but I am not going to deny the spiritual experience that I have had with the Book of Mormon either.
Walden Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 BOML is not a Mormon, although he claims to still believe in the Book of Mormon; and the answers he gives are not typically Mormon ones. I wouldn't say that the Book of Mormon is true "because it is". I would say that it is true because I have received a spiritual witness that convinces me it is true. If you have not received such a witness, I can't argue with that; but I am not going to deny the spiritual experience that I have had with the Book of Mormon either.Agreed, I cannot argue with your spiritual witness. But at least it is a more valid answer than just saying it is true "because it is true."Likewise, I would argue that there are many believers of other religions who would claim that they have had spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of their beliefs, though I think that BOML would likely argue that those confirmations are from teh devil and not god.
volgadon Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 For a Jew, this statement makes no sense at all cause they think the the Quran, Bible , and Book of Mormon are all wrong and the Talmud is correct. Oh goodness.
zerinus Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Agreed, I cannot argue with your spiritual witness. But at least it is a more valid answer than just saying it is true "because it is true."Likewise, I would argue that there are many believers of other religions who would claim that they have had spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of their beliefs, . . .Actually, that is not entirely correct. I don't know of any other religious text or religious tradition that promises a personal revelation from the Holy Ghost as a confirmation of its truth. As far as I know the BOM is the only sacred book that contains such a promise, and the LDS Church is the only Church that promotes that as the primary means of determining its truth. The closest you can come to it in the Bible is the promises found in Matthew 7:7; Luke 11:9; James 1:5; but they do not specifically recommend that as the means of determining its truth; and Christians of other faiths tend to positively discourage such a test as a reaction against Mormonism.
Olavarria Posted March 19, 2011 Author Posted March 19, 2011 Just to be clear, the divinity or non-divinity of the Koran is not on trail here. This was intended to be a thread on apologetic methodology. Thanks.
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