How many LDS deities?

[JesusLoves]

I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, but Cion already mentioned Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as having god status, per D&C 132. David Bokovoy, Kerry Shirts, and others have done work showing that there is a Heavenly Council of the Gods; so, other than the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost there appear to be others who hold/held status as gods.

I agree.

[nickleus]

mmmcounts:

We are monotheistic in beliefs. Not as strict as Muslims or the modern Jews.

hilarious =) i didnt know there was such a thing as *strict* *mono*-theism =)

as opposed to loose monotheism like "some days we believe ONLY in god X" while other days it's like "we believe ONLY in god Y"? =)

[USU78]

Most Christians with whom I have discussed the point here in Florida would disagree with you on this issue.

You plainly need to get out more.

[thesometimesaint]

nickleus:

Early Hebrews were more in favor of a "Counsel of the Gods", and a female "Consort of God". So I think that would qualify as believing in, but not necessarily worshiping, more than one God. Modern day Jews are strictly monotheistic, NO Son of God, or any other God.

Muslims deny the existence of any God but Allah(God).

Nearly all Christians believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. A Trinity or a Godhead(in the Bible). To paraphrase what Paul says; There are Gods many and Lords many, but to us there is but one God, and one Lord.

To me as the Apostle John says; We are to be made perfect in Christ. Other biblical Scriptures have us as receiving a crown of righteousness, and sitting on Gods' thrown. That seems to mean we too will be Gods.

[todd520]

hilarious =) i didnt know there was such a thing as *strict* *mono*-theism =)

as opposed to loose monotheism like "some days we believe ONLY in god X" while other days it's like "we believe ONLY in god Y"? =)

I expect Henotheism is the right word

[David Bokovoy]

Most Christians with whom I have discussed the point here in Florida would disagree with you on this issue.

Given the FLDS in the news over the last few years and the portrayal of Mormons on Big Love (very popular here), most non-Mormons I have spoken with see the Mormon Church as a cult and definitely not "true" Christian.

Most Christians with whom I have discussed the topic of Islam with in Louisiana have an interesting perspective on the issue.

Given al Qaeda in the news over the last few years and the portrayal of Muslims on 24 (very popular in Louisiana), most non-Muslims I have spoken with see Muslims as a terrorist cult.

Funny how that works. Thank goodness most people are intelligent enough to not use popular portrayals in the media/entertainment arena to determine the truth.

[thesometimesaint]

todd520:

Close. We don't chose which Gods to worship.

[Pahoran]

Most Christians with whom I have discussed the point here in Florida would disagree with you on this issue.

Given the FLDS in the news over the last few years and the portrayal of Mormons on Big Love (very popular here), most non-Mormons I have spoken with see the Mormon Church as a cult and definitely not "true" Christian.

And so the opinions of a bunch of people who think "Big Love" is an accurate representation of the Church of Jesus Christ are supposed to carry some weight, are they?

Do your erudite experts actually know what the word "cult" means?

Tell me, Foxy: if I could find a bunch of hicks who thought physics was something medical practitioners did, would you take their word for it?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

hilarious =) i didnt know there was such a thing as *strict* *mono*-theism =)

as opposed to loose monotheism like "some days we believe ONLY in god X" while other days it's like "we believe ONLY in god Y"? =)

No.

More like the kind of loose monotheism that says something like, "We believe the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God -- they're not the same person, but there's still only one God!"

Regards,

Pahoran

[nickleus]

ran across an interesting word: henotheism

the worshipping of a single god while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities.

[Questing Beast]

I think LDS Guy's point, that "most" of Christianity is polytheist too, is a good one.

In common usage, as he also points out, polytheism implies the worship of the deities believed in. This then becomes paganism, e.g. Hinduism is paganism. Mormonism and "most" of Christianity are also definitely NOT pagan religions. They have differing doctrines on how to define "God" (but not as different as most people in either "camp" seem to assume), but clearly it is the same "God" that they worship; the "El" of the Old Testament; both religions also believe and teach that Jesus Christ is in the express image of the Father, and that he worships the Father and taught men to do the same, etc. Muslims do not assign any "Son" relationship of Christ to Allah, yet believe that Jesus Christ is a prophet second only to Muhammad. Islam is clearly monotheistic; Christianity is less clearly monotheistic. Mormonism is not monotheistic; it only worships one God, unless the Son is present, then "we" worship him too: and I gather that if Adam showed up, alone, "we" would be excused for worshipping him as well, and so forth.

I am absolutely monotheistic. There are no "gods", only advanced sapient beings....

[Calm]

ran across an interesting word: henotheism

Wow, that's a new one to me!

Just teasing, but am wondering how closely you've been reading the thread.

[nickleus]

Wow, that's a new one to me!

Just teasing, but am wondering how closely you've been reading the thread.

yeah sorry, i havent read all 12 pages, sorry if it was mentioned before.. =)

[LDS Guy 1986]

I think LDS Guy's point, that "most" of Christianity is polytheist too, is a good one.

In common usage, as he also points out, polytheism implies the worship of the deities believed in. This then becomes paganism, e.g. Hinduism is paganism. Mormonism and "most" of Christianity are also definitely NOT pagan religions. They have differing doctrines on how to define "God" (but not as different as most people in either "camp" seem to assume), but clearly it is the same "God" that they worship; the "El" of the Old Testament; both religions also believe and teach that Jesus Christ is in the express image of the Father, and that he worships the Father and taught men to do the same, etc. Muslims do not assign any "Son" relationship of Christ to Allah, yet believe that Jesus Christ is a prophet second only to Muhammad. Islam is clearly monotheistic; Christianity is less clearly monotheistic. Mormonism is not monotheistic; it only worships one God, unless the Son is present, then "we" worship him too: and I gather that if Adam showed up, alone, "we" would be excused for worshipping him as well, and so forth.

I am absolutely monotheistic. There are no "gods", only advanced sapient beings....

This has brought up several times now in regards to your comments so hopefully you can clarify.

How is someone less clearly monotheistic? You either believe in one God or many Gods there isn't any grey area. It's one or the other not some in between. Christians are not monotheists, they made up the Trinity to try and appear as monotheists because of Greek philosophy that was popular in the 4th century when Constantine made the Roman Catholic Church, but the Trinity is a fools attempt to take a henotheist faith and make it monotheist.

[Questing Beast]

temple content

Virtually nothing of Joseph Smith's 19th century folksy beliefs survive in the modern church. You know this. Not even the (forbidden) temple content you reference. Christianity's beliefs are occult as well; the occult mirrors religion and visa versa. None of this grew out of a vacuum. You appear to have studied yourself out of the Church via church history....

[LDSGuy]

The scriptures use terms like "God of gods" and "Lord of lords." To me, if these "gods" and "lords" were used in comparison with God, it would weaken the image of God's power and influence. Since, we as humans, create these "gods;" and are ourselves, in a sense, gods to stone, metal, and wood. For surely we can mold them and make them into the images that we desire, and use them according to how we choose. How would it make God great to compare him to images we create. Surely He would obtain more greatness by being compared to other deities that actually exist, and then He would be the greatest among the gods. Hence "God of gods" and "Lord of lords."

[Questing Beast]

This has brought up several times now in regards to your comments so hopefully you can clarify.

How is someone less clearly monotheistic? You either believe in one God or many Gods there isn't any grey area. It's one or the other not some in between. Christians are not monotheists, they made up the Trinity to try and appear as monotheists because of Greek philosophy that was popular in the 4th century when Constantine made the Roman Catholic Church, but the Trinity is a fools attempt to take a henotheist faith and make it monotheist.

The Trinity (orthodox) theology is held to by MOST Christians. So not all Christians are polytheists twisting and turning in order to avoid that appellation. Therefore, Christianity is "less clearly monotheistic" because of the different ways that the Godhead is defined.

I don't know what all the fuss is about; other than to associate Christianity's polytheism with discredited, scorned and damned paganism which is polytheistic to the core. And Christians have been in denial for centuries: "We are not the same as pagans!"

I think that the Trinity concept works very well. My take on it, as I have explained, is that the Trinity is merely an illustration to show that "God" manifests in more than one or two personae. As "God" has elsewhere definitely stated that "he" is beyond human comprehension in all things, it follows that "he" is not limited to merely Three manifestations. So I am trinitarian in the sense that "God" can manifest as "Father", "Son" or "Holy Spirit" to make the point; but the point being made is all that there is to it. "God", being infinite, has infinite manifestations....

[Questing Beast]

temple content

Oh boy. Here come the Mods. "Wait for iiiiiiiit..."

[LDS Guy 1986]

The Trinity (orthodox) theology is held to by MOST Christians. So not all Christians are polytheists twisting and turning in order to avoid that appellation. Therefore, Christianity is "less clearly monotheistic" because of the different ways that the Godhead is defined.

I don't know what all the fuss is about; other than to associate Christianity's polytheism with discredited, scorned and damned paganism which is polytheistic to the core. And Christians have been in denial for centuries: "We are not the same as pagans!"

I think that the Trinity concept works very well. My take on it, as I have explained, is that the Trinity is merely an illustration to show that "God" manifests in more than one or two personae. As "God" has elsewhere definitely stated that "he" is beyond human comprehension in all things, it follows that "he" is not limited to merely Three manifestations. So I am trinitarian in the sense that "God" can manifest as "Father", "Son" or "Holy Spirit" to make the point; but the point being made is all that there is to it. "God", being infinite, has infinite manifestations....

Different definitions of the Godhead doesn't make someone less or more clearly believe that there is only one God.

You either believe in one God or not, there is no clarity involved. It is a yes or no question, there is not third option to choose from.

I do not believe in there being one God so I am not monotheist, I believe that there is many Gods, and I worship Elohim, my heavenly father as the One Supreme God.

You are not a monotheist, you are a self proclaimed trinitarian, trinitarian has 3 persons as 1 God. This is not monotheist either since there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, the Bible clearly shows that these entities are three separate individuals from the Story of the Creation in Genesis to the taking of the book with 7 seals by Christ from the hand of the Father in Revelations.

So this means there is 3 persons as god, which means you do not believe in 1 God but 3 Gods as 1.

This is not monotheist, the "less clearly monotheist" is really a polytheist (one who worships more than one God) in denial imo.

I am happily henotheist, I accept the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as 3 Gods. I know that man can become a God, and that there are other Gods besides the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I will one worship the Father though, he is supreme above all to me and is the only God worthy of my praise.

IMO monotheism is an absolute, you either believe in only 1 God or not, there is not wiggle room or ability to be "less monotheistic" than someone else.

[Hestia]

nickleus needs to take time to review board guidelines, particularly "Do not post temple content or links to temple content."

[Pahoran]

I think LDS Guy's point, that "most" of Christianity is polytheist too, is a good one.

In common usage, as he also points out, polytheism implies the worship of the deities believed in. This then becomes paganism, e.g. Hinduism is paganism. Mormonism and "most" of Christianity are also definitely NOT pagan religions. They have differing doctrines on how to define "God" (but not as different as most people in either "camp" seem to assume), but clearly it is the same "God" that they worship; the "El" of the Old Testament; both religions also believe and teach that Jesus Christ is in the express image of the Father, and that he worships the Father and taught men to do the same, etc. Muslims do not assign any "Son" relationship of Christ to Allah, yet believe that Jesus Christ is a prophet second only to Muhammad. Islam is clearly monotheistic; Christianity is less clearly monotheistic. Mormonism is not monotheistic; it only worships one God, unless the Son is present, then "we" worship him too: and I gather that if Adam showed up, alone, "we" would be excused for worshipping him as well, and so forth.

"Gather" is a rather unusual synonym for "speculate without evidence."

I am absolutely monotheistic. There are no "gods", only advanced sapient beings....

So, after telling us what labels we may or may not apply to ourselves, you apply a label to yourself that does not fit. "Mono" means "one." It does not mean "zero." The assertion, "there are no 'gods'," is not monotheistic, it is atheistic.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

Virtually nothing of Joseph Smith's 19th century folksy beliefs survive in the modern church. You know this.

I know this to be an utter canard that no informed person can credibly claim to hold in good faith.

Last night I read, with my family, a chapter from the Book of Mormon. Like Joseph Smith and his folksy (what a beautifully patronising adjective that is) friends, we believe there was a prophet named Samuel who lived in the last decade of the last century before Christ; that he was literally a Lamanite; that he literally stood upon the literal wall of a literal city called Zarahemla; that he literally called his hostile Nephite audience to repentance; and that he literally prophesied of the coming of Christ.

It seems to me that the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price amount to vastly more than "virtually nothing;" in fact, they are the great bulk of Joseph Smith's doctrinal output. And yet, somehow, all of them have managed to "survive in the modern church."

You know this.

Regards,

Pahoran