Is the Church sometimes influenced by the philosophies of men?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Why? Because you basically feel the other culture (and the associated "race") are inferior? Otherwise, how on earth could you justify this statement?

What rot gut. No one but PUT and you have argued that other marriages are inferior. PUT, now you have put forth a lie.

It's nice to see that racism/ bias against "non-white" cultures still exists in some members of the church.

Do you always make it a habit of lying about others beliefs?

[Daniel Peterson]

I missed this toxic little post when it appeared.

So, basically, if a return[ed] missionary who served in South America wanted to marry a girl outside of his culture, you would consider "good" advice that he should marry a girl from the U.S. instead?

I would consider it appropriate to for him to reflect upon the potential of cultural differences to create additional friction in a marital relationship (which will always be accompanied by frictions in any case), and, if asked for advice, would point that out.

Why? Because you basically feel the other culture (and the associated "race") are inferior?

Absolutely not.

How insulting.

Otherwise, how on earth could you justify this statement?

Ever heard of the concept of "divorce"? Ever heard the justifying phrase "irreconcilable differences"?

Do you think, on balance, that more differences between marriage partners tend to create a stronger marriage, or a weaker one?

It's nice to see that racism/ bias against "non-white" cultures still exists in some members of the church.

It's reassuring to see that critics still need to manufacture grievances against the Church in order to justify their dislike for it.

[phaedrus ut]

What rot gut. No one but PUT and you have argued that other marriages are inferior. PUT, now you have put forth a lie.

That's a pretty strong accusation. Since I posted both a direct quotation from and a link to the Aaronic Priesthood Manual in question I'm curious what I was lying about?

Phaedrus

[Calm]

That's a pretty strong accusation. Since I posted both a direct quotation from and a link to the Aaronic Priesthood Manual in question I'm curious what I was lying about?

Phaedrus

HInt: "inferior"

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That's a pretty strong accusation. Since I posted both a direct quotation from and a link to the Aaronic Priesthood Manual in question I'm curious what I was lying about?

Phaedrus

You darn well know what I object too. There is nothing in the manual about interacial marragies being "inferior" to a white on white marriage. You made that up out of whole cloth.

And you are correct, it is a pretty strong accusation. I stand by it.

[Pahoran]

You darn well know what I object too. There is nothing in the manual about interacial marragies being "inferior" to a white on white marriage. You made that up out of whole cloth.

And you are correct, it is a pretty strong accusation. I stand by it.

The delicious irony here is that every so often, Phaedrus tells us why he thinks it's time for what he coyly refers to as "an apostle of color." So-called "Affirmative Action" is par excellence an example of a popular "philosophy of men," and Phaedrus thinks the Church is at fault for not falling in line with it.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Senator]

You darn well know what I object too. There is nothing in the manual about interacial marragies being "inferior" to a white on white marriage.

But it does set one type of marriage up as, recommended or preferred, does it not?

By default this puts types that are absent of, or contrary to the preferred type, as....well....less preferred,......or inferior.(generally )

I realize the word inferior carries more perjorative overtones. Nevertheless it is a valid use of the word.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I realize the word inferior carries more perjorative overtones. Nevertheless it is a valid use of the word.

No, it does not.

[Senator]

No, it does not.

Oh

Ok

[phaedrus ut]

You darn well know what I object too. There is nothing in the manual about interacial marragies being "inferior" to a white on white marriage. You made that up out of whole cloth.

And you are correct, it is a pretty strong accusation. I stand by it.

Mola,

I don't know where you live so I won't assume that English is your first language. The quote from the manual said:

"We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background...not an absolute necessity, but preferred"

The church is stating not only their recommendation but which choice is preferable. Synonyms for preferable are "better, choice, desirable, excellent, preferred, superior." When examining options and one is "recommended" or "preferred" that option is by definition the superior choice. The other options become by definition inferior(the antonym) choices. By explicitly stating a preferred choice the other remaining options are not equal to the preference.

I could have used better/worse, desirable/undesirable, recommend/discourage.

Phaedrus

//edit I see that Senator made the same observation.

[phaedrus ut]

The delicious irony here is that every so often, Phaedrus tells us why he thinks it's time for what he coyly refers to as "an apostle of color." So-called "Affirmative Action" is par excellence an example of a popular "philosophy of men," and Phaedrus thinks the Church is at fault for not falling in line with it.

Regards,

Pahoran

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about Pahoran. I must be suffering from the early stages of dementia I can't ever recall asking for "an apostle of color" or anything related to affirmative action ever. I suspect you have me confused with someone else.

Phaedrus

[Deborah]

When examining options and one is "recommended" or "preferred" that option is by definition the superior choice. The other options become by definition inferior(the antonym) choices.

Oh, my gosh. And you are suggesting someone else might have English as a second language. The choice to marry in the same race is preferred, not the marriage. You clearly have difficulty with reading comprehension. There is a world of difference in suggesting someone stay within one's own race to make marriage easier and saying that if one marries another race they are marrying someone inferior. How you come up with that is truly as Mola says making it up out of whole cloth.

[Calm]

But it does set one type of marriage up as, recommended or preferred, does it not?

By default this puts types that are absent of, or contrary to the preferred type, as....well....less preferred,......or inferior.(generally )

That would depend on why it was being recommended.

If due to the statistics of success, then a successful interracial marriage would be seen as superior to an unsuccessful intraracial marriage, correct?

[Calm]

The church is stating not only their recommendation but which choice is preferable. Synonyms for preferable are "better, choice, desirable, excellent, preferred, superior."

And "synonyms" are defined as "having the same or nearly the same". Anyone who thinks they can pick up a Thesaurus and randomly use any listed synonym of a word in place of the word and not end up looking like an idiot from time to time needs a refresher course in English Composition.

A thesaurus can be a great tool to spice up your writing, but only if it is used properly. Using a thesaurus involves a bit more than looking up a word and choosing a synonym at random. Instead, the true benefit in using a thesaurus involves finding the word which will say precisely what you intend.

While synonyms may have similar meanings, the connotations to each word can be very different. Word choice is often a matter of nuance. "Hoisting" oneself onto a platform brings up a slightly different image than "pulling" oneself up. By using precise wording, your writing can be more descriptive and concise.

http://www.helium.com/items/1534153-tips-on-using-a-thesaurus-to-spice-up-your-writing

Again, judging what marriages are and are not "superior" would require looking at why a particular recommendation was being made as the recommendation may not be directly related to what makes a marriage superior, but rather is a correlation.

Another example is the recommendation to hold FHE in order to promote successful families. Does this mean that a family that holds FHE is automatically superior to a family that doesn't....it would be laughable to draw that conclusion if it was known that the FHE family had abusive parents while the nonFHE family not only had loving, gentle parents but did many activities together as a family.

The recommendation for intraracial marriages is a recognition of the correlation of success with the incidence of higher similarities existing between spouses, not a comment on the marriage itself.

If it was stated or even implied that an interracial marriage could not be successful, that would be different; but there is nothing in any of the quotes or teachings that demonstrates that as an opinion or belief of Church leadership.

[Calm]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about Pahoran. I must be suffering from the early stages of dementia I can't ever recall asking for "an apostle of color" or anything related to affirmative action ever. I suspect you have me confused with someone else.

Phaedrus

Moksha was the one to use the phrase:

[Pahoran]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about Pahoran. I must be suffering from the early stages of dementia I can't ever recall asking for "an apostle of color" or anything related to affirmative action ever. I suspect you have me confused with someone else.

Phaedrus

You're right; it was Moksha. I apologise for blaming you for someone else's absurdities.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Senator]

That would depend on why it was being recommended.

If due to the statistics of success, then a successful interracial marriage would be seen as superior to an unsuccessful intraracial marriage, correct?

Look, I'm not arguing against the fact that racial and cultural diversity in a marriage carries a potenial friction risk. This can be a very real issue, and I have no problem with such advice to be included among the several other gotcha points to be aware of when choosing a mate.

I do, however, believe it unesessary to take it to the next level and make a recommendation to even the persuit of one racial or cultural marriage type over another; especially in this day and age. It is a relic a of past era, where I have no doubt that the then cultural stigmas attached to interracial marriage was a factor in its conception.

[evangelist]

While I believe the church has been steadfast in its mission of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, it seems that it has a history of adopting philosophies and ideas from other peoples in society. For Example:

-The the adoption of the popular idea that all black people are descended from Cain through Ham.

- The priesthood being given to blacks conveniently following the civil rights movement.

- Anti-scientific ideas from the Young Earth Creationist movement perpetuated by Bruce R. McKonkie and Joseph Fielding Smith.

-The idea that all native americans descended from lost tribes of Israel (A popular belief in the 19th century).

It makes me wonder if they'll ever give in and let women have the priesthood or allow gays to marry. Maybe. Maybe not.

Very good thread Studdley and good observations facts!

one love

[Deborah]

Very good thread Studdley and good observations facts!

And misleading in that it doesn't give any context. Oh, and the thing about Priesthood being "conveniently" given is an absolute falsehood as discussed on multiple threads.

[Pahoran]

And misleading in that it doesn't give any context. Oh, and the thing about Priesthood being "conveniently" given is an absolute falsehood as discussed on multiple threads.

I wouldn't worry about it, Deborah. "Evangelist's" endorsement doesn't count for much. He was enthusiastically gushing over Jack Chick tracts not long ago.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Deborah]

I wouldn't worry about it, Deborah. "Evangelist's" endorsement doesn't count for much.

[LDSGuy]

I don't think the priesthood was conveniently extended to all worthy male members after the civil rights movement. The Civil Rights bill was signed into law in the mid 1960's. The Church extended the priesthood about 13 years after the Civil Rights movement.