What spiritual experiences are exclusive to LDS?

[Jeff K.]

whoops double post

[semlogo]

There are no spiritual experiences exclusive to members of the LDS Church. Anyone can see angels, speak in tongues, receive inspiration, etc.

There are some specific gifts, authority, and covenants exclusive to the LDS, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost is one of them.

Agreed.

[mfbukowski]

This all seems to be referring to things after this life, I am talking about experiences, gifts, etc. in this life.

No, the OP talks about "spiritual experiences".

Now you are opening it up to "expereinces, gifts, etc."????

That's very different!!

The blessings of temple attendance and how it brings you closer to the knowledge of Godliness, the experiences contained therein- the idea of testimony as being a guiding principle ALL these and many many more are unique to the LDS experience. Th difference between a temple marriage in which you know you will be together forever, and one in which you vow only for this life- the effect the understanding of the possibility of exaltation- all of those are unique.

But that is no what your OP asked for.

Are you changing the question now?

[stYro]

...what experiences, feelings, abilities etc are only available to LDS members with the Gift of the Holy Ghost?

So, if LDS do have access to something unique, what is it?

Remember in the Wizard of Oz when the wizard gives the scarecrow a diploma? The scarecrow didn't suddenly become more intelligent; rather, his trust in the intelligence he'd had all along was greatly increased because now his intelligence had been officially validated.

The LDS don't have greater access to inspiration or guidance or whatever we may call it than others; rather, what they have is a ceremony that very emphatically says. "pay attention to the still, small voice, cultivate your ability to feel it, learn to differentiate it from all other inner voices, honor and follow what it says, because its source is divine". This is imho the greatest ceremony in all of Mormonism, because it validates and teaches them to honor that inner voice.

Joseph Smith put his finger on something real and something critical, and made it central to the religion. Whether you agree or disagree with the rest of what he did, he got that one right.

stYro

[Jeff K.]

I would agree that LDS are not necessarily more spiritual than anyone else. However access to spiritual experiences, guidance, and other gifts of the spirit is higher, much higher. It is hard to imagine Moses did not have more access to spiritual guidance than Pharoah, of Abraham than his father, or President Monson than President Obama. I believe that virtue of membership, including the covenant of baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost as a companion all increase that access (as we live our covenants) to that guidance. And if you listen closely to the initiatory and endowment sessions in the temple you will see that we are specifically given access to greater spiritual access.

The effect is that non members or those less worthy receive glimpses through the crystal windows of a closed door, for those who live the covenants they promise in the temple, the door is thrown open and we are invited to enter.

[Senator]

It's all one life, really, and the Holy Spirit of Promise can be experienced in mortality by those who have the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't think anyone other than LDS would lay claim to experiencing such a thing.

I would be very interested to hear a response to that statement from some of our born-again evangelical friends.

I would bet that their rebirth experience, couple with the teaching that such an indwelling of the spirit is a promise of unconditional salvation, would lay claim to exactly such a thing.

[Senator]

The effect is that non members or those less worthy receive glimpses through the crystal windows of a closed door, for those who live the covenants they promise in the temple, the door is thrown open and we are invited to enter.

I would suggest that their are many nonLDS-members of other faiths that take their respective covenants/promises with God very seriously, and do reap the attending spiritual blessing therein.

The question then becomes one of quantity or quality, which, either way, becomes a very subjective measurement.

[maupayman]

No, the OP talks about "spiritual experiences".

Now you are opening it up to "expereinces, gifts, etc."????

That's very different!!

Since you clearly didn't read the OP very closely, I will cut and paste for you:

"The question is straightforward: Given the LDS claim, of exclusive access to the Gift of the Holy Ghost, what experiences, feelings, abilities etc are only available to LDS members with the Gift of the Holy Ghost?"

I did not just limit the discussion to spiritual experiences.

The blessings of temple attendance and how it brings you closer to the knowledge of Godliness, the experiences contained therein- the idea of testimony as being a guiding principle ALL these and many many more are unique to the LDS experience. Th difference between a temple marriage in which you know you will be together forever, and one in which you vow only for this life- the effect the understanding of the possibility of exaltation- all of those are unique.

But that is no what your OP asked for.

Are you changing the question now?

Not at all, I would argue that those are only unique because others aren't allowed inside, or don't believe what is being said. In other words, if a sincere believer, who had not been baptized in the LDS church, were allowed to go through the temple ceremony, I think they could have the same types of experiences that LDS do; they could be brought closer to the knowledge of Godliness etc. I'm looking for a way the Holy Ghost manifests itself exclusively to mormons. I think the exclusivity you are talking about is simply a result of others being barred entrance.

[maupayman]

It is certainly more difficult to develop such gifts spiritually than physically. But I can give you my own experience on the matter. Prayer and righteousness help us develop the gift along with its use, but only as we attempt to use it according to the will of God. I knew a man who had the gift for healing, and whenever called upon as a hometeacher or as a quorum leader he would, if he had time, fast and pray to understand the blessing which the Lord has prepared for the other member. Could I count the number of times he was successful? Not really, but I do know the comforter often manifested Himself during the prayer and not only the person receiving the blessing, but all felt the joy of the gospel. I saw one blessing that was especially touching. The woman asked to be healed and said she had faith, he had fasted the day prior and that day took the day off because he really wanted the woman healed. When he placed his hands on her head and sealed the annointing, ready to give the blessing of life, I suddenly felt and saw him deflate. He blessed her that she would be comforted and that her remaining time upon the earth would be a blessing to all that knew her and that the pain would not last very long. Both of them were shaken by the experience (and frankly so was I). He apologized and said that was all he felt he could say, she herself was resigned to it. She called her family in and shared her love and testimony over the next several days, made amends in some cases, and forgave others. Roughly a month later she was dead, the doctors were suprised at her ability to keep the pain at bay.

That man had the gift of communication with God, and the gift to know Gods will, and the gift to heal. These gifts he developed as he exercised the priesthood and was of service to others. He was a spiritual man with deep insight and honesty and humility.

Eyring

So, are you arguing that only LDS, with the gift of the Holy Ghost can develop this type of gift of healing?

[CV75]

I would be very interested to hear a response to that statement from some of our born-again evangelical friends.

I would bet that their rebirth experience, couple with the teaching that such an indwelling of the spirit is a promise of unconditional salvation, would lay claim to exactly such a thing.

It has been 20 hours; the response must include a point-for-point comment on the promises listed in the scriptures I provided.

[maupayman]

Remember in the Wizard of Oz when the wizard gives the scarecrow a diploma? The scarecrow didn't suddenly become more intelligent; rather, his trust in the intelligence he'd had all along was greatly increased because now his intelligence had been officially validated.

The LDS don't have greater access to inspiration or guidance or whatever we may call it than others; rather, what they have is a ceremony that very emphatically says. "pay attention to the still, small voice, cultivate your ability to feel it, learn to differentiate it from all other inner voices, honor and follow what it says, because its source is divine". This is imho the greatest ceremony in all of Mormonism, because it validates and teaches them to honor that inner voice.

Joseph Smith put his finger on something real and something critical, and made it central to the religion. Whether you agree or disagree with the rest of what he did, he got that one right.

stYro

So, you are saying that there is no unique way the Holy ghost is manifest within mormonism, but that you guys have the best ceremony?

[maupayman]

I would agree that LDS are not necessarily more spiritual than anyone else. However access to spiritual experiences, guidance, and other gifts of the spirit is higher, much higher. It is hard to imagine Moses did not have more access to spiritual guidance than Pharoah, of Abraham than his father, or President Monson than President Obama. I believe that virtue of membership, including the covenant of baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost as a companion all increase that access (as we live our covenants) to that guidance. And if you listen closely to the initiatory and endowment sessions in the temple you will see that we are specifically given access to greater spiritual access.

The effect is that non members or those less worthy receive glimpses through the crystal windows of a closed door, for those who live the covenants they promise in the temple, the door is thrown open and we are invited to enter.

Can this be shown in any meaningful way, other than your subjective apples-to-oranges comparison of Monson to Obama etc. These people believe completely different things. Why not compare Monson to a sincere religious leader of another faith. Something actually comparable.

[Hughes]

CV75, on 25 January 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

It's all one life, really, and the Holy Spirit of Promise can be experienced in mortality by those who have the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't think anyone other than LDS would lay claim to experiencing such a thing.

I would be very interested to hear a response to that statement from some of our born-again evangelical friends.

I would bet that their rebirth experience, couple with the teaching that such an indwelling of the spirit is a promise of unconditional salvation, would lay claim to exactly such a thing.

It is a subjective topic, one in which no one can say for sure what another actually feels or experiences, and in that vain I will only say that I do experience the indwelling of the Spirit of God everyday, as a born again believer.

[mfbukowski]

Since you clearly didn't read the OP very closely, I will cut and paste for you:

"The question is straightforward: Given the LDS claim, of exclusive access to the Gift of the Holy Ghost, what experiences, feelings, abilities etc are only available to LDS members with the Gift of the Holy Ghost?"

I did not just limit the discussion to spiritual experiences.

Not at all, I would argue that those are only unique because others aren't allowed inside, or don't believe what is being said. In other words, if a sincere believer, who had not been baptized in the LDS church, were allowed to go through the temple ceremony, I think they could have the same types of experiences that LDS do; they could be brought closer to the knowledge of Godliness etc. I'm looking for a way the Holy Ghost manifests itself exclusively to mormons. I think the exclusivity you are talking about is simply a result of others being barred entrance.

Nope.

It's available on the internet - see what kind of understanding you get from it. I promise it will be "nothing". 90% of all anti Mormon literature is based on ridiculing the endowment- I don't think those folks quite "get it".

And just for the sake of correcting your ambiguous style:

"The question is straightforward: Given the LDS claim, of exclusive access to the Gift of the Holy Ghost, what experiences, feelings, abilities etc are only available to LDS members with the Gift of the Holy Ghost?"

The direct answer to the question is "none" because NO experiences are available "by means" of the gift of the HG. There is no reason to mention the HG if you were asking about what special experiences are available to MEMBERS.

"With" can be understood to mean "by means of"- like "I can see it with binoculars, but not without".

If you wanted to know what special experiences were available to MEMBERS that is another question.

If you want an answer, you have to ask the right question.

[mfbukowski]

It is a subjective topic, one in which no one can say for sure what another actually feels or experiences, and in that vain I will only say that I do experience the indwelling of the Spirit of God everyday, as a born again believer.

Of course it is subjective. What is your point?

I am glad that you acknowledge that we feel the spirit just as you do.

[Jeff K.]

So, are you arguing that only LDS, with the gift of the Holy Ghost can develop this type of gift of healing?

Yes on a consistent basis. That doesn't mean others cannot. As I have mentioned the temple covenants say as much.

[Jeff K.]

Can this be shown in any meaningful way, other than your subjective apples-to-oranges comparison of Monson to Obama etc. These people believe completely different things. Why not compare Monson to a sincere religious leader of another faith. Something actually comparable.

I do not know of other religious leaders who have the same covenants with God that we do and under the authority of Christ. Sincerity does not equal authority.

[Jeff K.]

Jeff K., on 26 January 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

The effect is that non members or those less worthy receive glimpses through the crystal windows of a closed door, for those who live the covenants they promise in the temple, the door is thrown open and we are invited to enter.

I would suggest that their are many nonLDS-members of other faiths that take their respective covenants/promises with God very seriously, and do reap the attending spiritual blessing therein.

The question then becomes one of quantity or quality, which, either way, becomes a very subjective measurement.

As my eleven year old would say "well duh"... of course faith and things of the spirit are naturally subjective. Now senator I realize that if perhaps you believe that the LDS church has no real authority beyond other churches, you point is well taken, and that may indeed be your position. Shrug, many non members feel that way and I respect that since they cannot know without a testimony. Absent of a testimony it is impossible to respond in an objective way to the question. But for Mormons who believe that their commitment is being made to an authoritative line and that going through the temple entails covenants to that authority which when combined with the covenants makes it unique, it is entirely different and distinct. Of course if one has no testimony, and has never gone through the temple, or made such a covenant with the testimony that the authority is true, then all religions are the same and its just the sincerity alone that matters. Martin Luther felt that way, but Mormon prophets (and Old and New Testament prophets) would beg to differ.

I hope this helps give you some more insight into the Mormon view of things.

[Walden]

I do not know of other religious leaders who have the same covenants with God that we do and under the authority of Christ. Sincerity does not equal authority.

I think that those who believe in the authority of the Pope may argue with you on this one.

Again, truth is a matter of perspective.

[Jeff K.]

I think that those who believe in the authority of the Pope may argue with you on this one.

Again, truth is a matter of perspective.

I agree that it is a matter of perspective and faith in existing authority. I am speaking of the Mormon perspective regarding spiritual gifts.

[Senator]

I hope this helps give you some more insight into the Mormon view of things.

No need to go into patronize mode Jeff. I'm born and bred LDS and have remained such all my life, immeshed in the Mormon view of things every bit as much as you.

Of course no one can know the experience of a certain religion, until they actually experience it themselve. Obvious every religion has its unique tenents, offerings, liturgy, forms of worship and convenant making and spiritual conviction. I don't think that was the intent of the OP's question.

[CV75]

It is a subjective topic, one in which no one can say for sure what another actually feels or experiences, and in that vain I will only say that I do experience the indwelling of the Spirit of God everyday, as a born again believer.

But you do not experience the specific manifestations of the Holy Spirit of Promise as described in the scriptures I provided; these experiences are exclusive to LDS, which in addition are dependent upon receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, by the laying on of hands, by one having authority.

There are undeniably manifestations of the Holy Spirit to all of God's children who will receive them, but not of the unique variety that I refer to as the ministering of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

[Jeff K.]

No need to go into patronize mode Jeff. I'm born and bred LDS and have remained such all my life, immeshed in the Mormon view of things every bit as much as you.

Of course no one can know the experience of a certain religion, until they actually experience it themselve. Obvious every religion has its unique tenents, offerings, liturgy, forms of worship and convenant making and spiritual conviction. I don't think that was the intent of the OP's question.

My bad, I should have remembered you were a member. It isn't exactly clear to me that you were.

[stYro]

So, you are saying that there is no unique way the Holy ghost is manifest within mormonism, but that you guys have the best ceremony?

Yes to the first part, no to the second. I'm saying that's the best ceremony within mormonism. Every mormon gets it, so every mormon has direct access to a higher authority than their ecclesiastical leaders. Of course they do anyway, and so does everyone else, but the ceremony puts emphasis on it... which imho is as it should be.

stYro

[Senator]

It isn't exactly clear to me that you were.

It's that sheep in wolf's clothing thing and all....