randy Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Recently I have become more aquainted with a co-worker and we've become quite good friends. It could be said that he's a "traditional Christian" and as we got to know each other a bit better he shared with me that he is also a former member of the Church (he can share his experience in the Church in his own words). Needless to say...in the last week or so, we've had some fun discourse.However, in the last day or so we both felt the prompting to focus our discussions on a certain topic. So, I told my good friend "Josh" to choose a topic that he felt deserving of our attention! hahaha. He chose as our first topic of discussion..."Why do we need a living, mortal, human prophet on the earth today?I told him that I felt this was an EXCELLENT choice to start our serious discussions. We also agreed that in addition to our face to face discussions on this topic, that we would also benefit from starting a parallel discussion on the forum. So my good friend and I look forward to any and all thoughts from all of you concerning this particular subject.I believe my friend will be joining this board ASAP and will introduce himself..and lay out in his own words his argument that Latter-day Prophets are not needed in our day. Once he lays out his argument...then let the "fair and balanced" discussions begin!Again..I appreciate everyone's input and we both thank you in advance!! Randy
Kevin Christensen Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 My two cents.http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/prophettestsfv5.pdfNibley's two bits:http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=54Kevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA
rpn Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Because we can't physically see a God or the Holy Ghost and so we need a human form to keep us (and more importantly the church) focused on Jesus. Because we don't listen as good as we should to Him, and He can talk to one man who He commissions to spread the news.Because mortals, left to themselves, become either fanatical or lazy when it comes to understanding or living gospel principles and both of those stop individual human progress, and can hijack the church. (A missionary told me of finding a deacon in tears after church in a remote congregation because he was too full to eat all the left over sacrament bread and he couldn't throw it away. Traditions creep into groups and reminding us of the important things twice a year (not to mention the oversight of stake high councils or others who are supposed to be on the lookout for anomalies before they take route and do worse than give a 12 year old a tummy ache).
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 When you think of the word "prophet", what comes immediately to mind is someone that makes prophecies. Yet the current prophets of the church don't seem to do a whole lot of Prophesying. In fact they don't seem to do much of the things that we associate with prophets that really set them apart from ordinary men like translating, healing, providing specific revelation, etc.The modern day church functions much more like a corporation run by businessmen than a religion run by real prophets.Since the prophets after Joseph Smith have done little more than run the church like a business (except for undoing some of the things Joseph started like polygamy), I have to basically agree with your friend when he says 'why do we need prophets?
Vance Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 When you think of the word "prophet", what comes immediately to mind is someone that makes prophecies.What?I thought prophets were called more to warn the people than to make predictions.
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What?I thought prophets were called more to warn the people than to make predictions.OK, so have the LDS prophets warned us of anything that other people wouldn't know?
Kiviuq Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I seem to remember President Hinckley in an interview saying
Jason Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 OK, so have the LDS prophets warned us of anything that other people wouldn't know?That's not the role of a prophet either. It's to say what the Lord tells them to say. In many cases what the Lord has to say is not surprising, because He has said it before.
Vance Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 OK, so have the LDS prophets warned us of anything that other people wouldn't know?Who said anything about "other people wouldn't know"?Does a warning have to be exclusive to be prophetic?
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Who said anything about "other people wouldn't know"?Does a warning have to be exclusive to be prophetic?Well it would help if the prophets could do something extraordinary like say produce the Book of Mormon to help validate that they are indeed who they say they are. Otherwise they appear to be just oridnary men with their own opinions.
Nathair/|\ Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I would have done that on DAY ONE if I was the prophet of the church. To me this seems 148 years too late. How much of a prophet do you really have to be to grant equality to African Americans? Since when do Prophets act on their own?
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Well it would help if the prophets could do something extraordinary like say produce the Book of Mormon to help validate that they are indeed who they say they are. Otherwise they appear to be just oridnary men with their own opinions.By all accounts... the Greatest Prophet who has ever lived was describes as.... ordinary... having his own opinions as well.Isaiah 5214 Just as there were many who were appalled at him[b]
thesometimesaint Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 LDS Truthseeker:Let me introduce you to Elijah Able http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_AbelThe Lord is NOT going to force us to do anything, he works with what he's got.
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Since when do Prophets act on their own?Do you think that Jesus instructed the prophet to tell girls not to have more than one earing?Do you think Jesus told Joseph Smith to trick Emma by having a mock second marriage to the Partridge sisters so she wouldn't find out that he was already married to them?Do you think that Jesus told the prophet to build a $3Billion+ mall with a $500 retractable roof?Do you think that Jesus told the prophet to buy a forged mark Hofman manuscript?I think that the prophets act on their own way more than most LDS believe.
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 LDS Truthseeker:Let me introduce you to Elijah Able http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_AbelThe Lord is NOT going to force us to do anything, he works with what he's got.So who was wrong here - Joseph Smith for ordaining a black man to the priesthood or all the prophets after him until 1978 that denied blacks the priesthood?
randy Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 Wow! Thanks everybody for your responses so far! My friend is still at work right now....but I trust that he will be able to see his way here soon.I would ask though..that we all try to keep our responses focused on the WHY or WHY NOT of "are Prophets necessary in our day?"Kevin...thanks so much for those two links. Those types of resources were exactly what we were looking for as well! Thanks so much!Keep the responses coming! Randy
Nathair/|\ Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Do you think that Jesus instructed the prophet to tell girls not to have more than one earing?Do you think Jesus told Joseph Smith to trick Emma by having a mock second marriage to the Partridge sisters so she wouldn't find out that he was already married to them?Do you think that Jesus told the prophet to build a $3Billion+ mall with a $500 retractable roof?Do you think that Jesus told the prophet to buy a forged mark Hofman manuscript?I think that the prophets act on their own way more than most LDS believe.So because of that, you would, on your own, do a way with a prohibition that was instituted by God?
Nathair/|\ Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 So who was wrong here - Joseph Smith for ordaining a black man to the priesthood or all the prophets after him until 1978 that denied blacks the priesthood?Neither. Those cases took place before the command was given to restrict the Priesthood.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Do you think that Jesus instructed the prophet to tell girls not to have more than one earing?Yes as a matter of fact I do... President Hinkley was just reminding the women of something the Lord had already made pretty clear.Isaiah 316
SilverKnight Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 OK, so have the LDS prophets warned us of anything that other people wouldn't know?Yes.
LifeOnaPlate Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 One would think a "Truthseeker" would do less asserting and more seeking. Less preaching and more hearkening. A truth seeker probably wouldn't ask loaded questions as an effort to disguise a solid opinion. But the avatar selected by our own LDS Truthseeker is interesting. It has completely ossified...
LDS Truthseeker Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 So because of that, you would, on your own, do a way with a prohibition that was instituted by God?Regarding discrimination based on skin color, well yes unless I was absolutely convinced that this was God's will - for example, if God specifically appeared to me and told me to discriminate against them and told me why. But GBH was asked why the church discrimated against blacks, he said "he didn't know the reason". So apparently God didn't tell the prophets why and all the prophets after Brigham just blindly did what their predecessors did until several factors like opening the Brazil temple and mounting public pressure practically forced them to change this prohibition. The same is true of polygamy. There doesn't appear to be any specific, direct revelation to end polygamy but rather a logical response that the church is going to be bankrupt if it doesn't change the practice.
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