ELF1024 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 You are correct Joseph Smith didn't have anything to do with Numbers, but the idea that the earthly priesthood was eternal. In essence, the priesthood bestowed on all believers fulfills this idea, but it couldn't be both earthly and eternal. IF it's in fact eternal then it's spiritual.CFR the existance of the "Priesthood of all believers" (hint)
Hughes Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Being part of "a royal priesthood" means what exactly?Can you even define that?In 1 peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people"What does Royal Priesthood mean? Which part don't you understand? Royal indicates royalty connected with the king of kings and lord or lords.And priesthood indicating our service to him. Also as Paul stated, "offer your bodies as living sacrifices..." Rom. 12:1
Hughes Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 CFR the existance of the "Priesthood of all believers"1 peter 2:9
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 You are correct Joseph Smith didn't have anything to do with Numbers, but the idea that the earthly priesthood was eternal. In essence, the priesthood bestowed on all believers fulfills this idea, but it couldn't be both earthly and eternal. IF it's in fact eternal then it's spiritual.Ha there is no such thing as an "earthly priesthood" (Nice straw man) The Melchesidic priesthood is God's presithood. And that is eternal.There is no such thing as the priesthood of believers. Another naked assertion by you not found in scripture.
thesometimesaint Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Hughes:Peter says nothing about the priesthood of all believers. Try again.Ps. http://ldsdoctrine.blogspot.com/2007/08/priesthood-of-all-believers.html
Hughes Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 You need to read it again, apparently."2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?"Paul identifies them as BELIEVERS and disciples (see verse 1)!!!!!!"And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."Paul learns here that the person that baptized them didn't have authority because an authorized person would have KNOWN about the Holy Ghost coming after proper baptism."3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 1 peter 2:9Sorry, but this verse speaking snothing about "a priesthood of all believers". Or all you need to do is believe and you have the priesthood.
LeSellers Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 A baptism without priesthood authority may be a noble act, by those who love the Lord, but it is not recognized.Not recognized by whom? God? Sure doesn't say that in the Biblical text.Yes, it does. In Acts 18:24~19:7 we have the account of exactly what cdowis said but that you claim isn't there. Lehi
Zakuska Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry, but this verse speaking snothing about "a priesthood of all believers". Or all you need to do is believe and you have the priesthood.Which would mean that even Demons have the priesthood... Matthew 8:29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Kevin Christensen Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 By the way Kevin..... I just wanted to tell you that your treatise on what makes a "Prophet" per the Bible, contrary to what anti's and other Christians usually say makes a Prophet, is a profound contribution to the truth. Excellent work.Thanks Obiwan. It was meant to provide a way out of the usual well worn grooves that discussions on the topic usually run in. But as it is with horses and water, so it is with people and texts. One can only offer and hope.Kevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA
Obiwan Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 1 peter 2:9There is no "Priesthood of all believers" in that verse. You do understand that that idea is a Protestant construct created to justify their separation from the Catholic Church??? This ideology did not exist at all within Christianity until then. The "royale priesthood" being spoken of is spiritual and adoptive in nature, not an "actual" Priesthood of God which is only given by the laying on of hands. Read the thread referenced above by Elf1024, and another link above by sometimesaint.The Bible is "replete" if what makes the ACTUAL "Priesthood" of God, and a Priesthood of all Believers isn't one of them. (New Testament as well, not just the Old) Think about that fact for a moment. Again, there is no other indication of a priesthood of all believers, while there are tons of what makes the actual priesthood. Also, many in the LDS Church who don't have the Priesthood and potentially even other Christians are of a "royal priesthood" by being believers, not because they have or are given and "actual" Priesthood simply by believing. That has NEVER been the standard of what makes the "Priesthood of God". As someone else said, even the devils believe.... Does that mean they have the priesthood and Gods authority? Heck no!!!Further.... The Catholic Church and history itself is clear evidence that while the Catholic Church may have strayed in certain things and doctrines, their practices on the Priesthood are mostly the same since Christ and the Apostles set established them, and then ours is similar to theirs as well. Thus, I ask again in this thread, who are any of you to create and follow this religions that changed ideologically basically in the 1400's, not after the Catholic pattern? Can you not separate man-made religion with the REAL so-called "traditional christianity"??? If you were really following what the scriptures and traditional christianity taught and did, you would need to be more Catholic than Protestant/Evangelical. Why is it you're not???
selek Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 The "priesthood of all believers" is a Reformation-era heresy invented by desperate Protestants frantic to preserve their authority/legitimacy following their very public apostacy from the Catholic Church.It has no historical or doctrinal precedent or support, and is a 'modern' attempt to wrest the Scriptures and justify their revolt by undermining Catholic authority.The logical outcome of this heresy was anarchy- if everyone is equally authoritative before God (which was the argument used to undermine Catholic authority) then no one interpretation is any better than any other- and there is no law.If your opinion of God's will is as authoritative as any other- you can do whatever you think God wants, which is the raison d'etre of the "If it feels good, do it" and anti-nomianism movements.Attempting to skirt the consequences of their heresy, the frantic Protestants invented the sola scriptura and inerrancy heresies, promoting their own interpretation of Scripture from dogma to idolatry...........but really, what else could they do?
Pahoran Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 The great apologist fall back strategy, the ad hominem attack. Way to go guys. I knew you wouldn
SilverKnight Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 The great polemicist fall-back strategy, the straw man fallacy. Way to go, Sunstoned. I knew someone wouldn't disappoint.Regards,PahoranEpilogue:The earnest Truthseeker I was scolded for insulting turned out to be nothing more than a bomb-tossing troll who has since been banned.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 In 1 peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people"What does Royal Priesthood mean? Which part don't you understand? Royal indicates royalty connected with the king of kings and lord or lords.And priesthood indicating our service to him. Also as Paul stated, "offer your bodies as living sacrifices..." Rom. 12:1Ok, so lets accept at what you state at face value. What you say is true here. How does "Royal indicates royalty connected with the king of kings and lord or lords" and "our service to him" = priesthood of all believers?Oh that is right it does not.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Please show me where the word "authority" is used in that passage. They were re-baptized because now they put their faith in Christ not John's message. Had nothing to do with authority as that isn't even in the text.What was John's message? Geeze this is funny. I will give you a hint that it most likely was not much different than that of the apostles.Also, it seems to be that you are asserting that John's message was false. The word authority does not to be in the text becuase it is obvious that is what the issue is.
Vance Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Please show me where the word "authority" is used in that passage. They were re-baptized because now they put their faith in Christ not John's message.So the baptism that was good enough for Jesus wasn't good enough for Jesus' followers?That is ridiculous. Try again. Had nothing to do with authority as that isn't even in the text.It had everything to do with authority.Edited to add,Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him(meaning John the Baptist).Edited to add MORE!Good question from Jesus.Luke 20:4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? Well Hughes, which is it?
Vance Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 The "priesthood of all believers" or "priesthood of believers" is a concept FABRICATED by Martin Luther.It didn't exist prior to Luther.
ElfLord Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 What was John's message? Geeze this is funny. I will give you a hint that it most likely was not much different than that of the apostles.Also, it seems to be that you are asserting that John's message was false. The word authority does not to be in the text becuase it is obvious that is what the issue is.Why of all the teachers around Jerusalem at the time did Jesus specifically seek out John?Becuase his father was a Priest in the temple after all and he had the Priesthood to perform the cleansing by water. Why was Johns Baptism so important?Acts 1824
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Why of all the teachers around Jerusalem at the time did Jesus specifically seek out John?Becuase his father was a Priest in the temple after all and he had the Priesthood to perform the cleansing by water. Why was Johns Baptism so important?Its intresting that Paul links his ministry with Apollos who was teaching the Baptism of John in this way.Paul planted the gift of the Holy Ghost in the Beleivers. Appolos watered the seed with the Baptism of John. And God caused the plants to grow in his Garden.This is another great point. I think all of this make a reasonable case that one must have the priesthood authority to do certain things. And that not every one has it.
Hughes Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 No longer is the earthly order of Melchisedec applicable. Only the priesthood that is acceptable to God, through Christ in the Spirit.This is what you claimedThis is false, you rebutted with nothing that addresses your assertion.The "earthly order of Melchisedec applicable" no longer being needed is no were taught in the bible.No were does the bible teach that all believers are priests. This appears to be another bald assertion that is no were taught in the bible.And being a preist does not = "direct access to God". That is not what being a priest means. It is true that certain duties of a priest changes after Christ.As Hebrews [7:16-19] states, Jesus "become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
ELF1024 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 As Hebrews [7:16-19] states, Jesus "become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
ElfLord Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 As Hebrews [7:16-19] states, Jesus "become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
Vance Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 As Hebrews [7:16-19] states, Jesus "become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
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