Jesus Really is Anti-War

[Jeff K.]

I suspect I've read the OT a few more times than the average person. I've already stated that I discount those portions that promote racial genocide as a commandment from God. I don't believe God supports such atrocities.

Well then you choose to edit quite a bit. But I have found nothing inconsistent between the Old and New Testament other than your opinion regarding required redaction based on, well, your opinion.

[Jeff K.]

Does that nullify any truth or value in his words?

In the context of the entire song and the man's life, yes.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff k.:

Be careful lest you thrust your petard in your own heroes.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]I have found nothing inconsistent between the Old and New Testament [...]

[volgadon]

Fighting for national pride is something very different than "fighting for Hitler". Certainly it's different from "fighting to exterminate all the Jews".

Look into what 'national pride' consisted of in Nazi Germany.

[handys003]

In a recent, albeit now closed thread, several Latter-day Saint posters took offense to the suggestion that Jesus, the

[volgadon]

I assert imo that the "sword" is not only as you described, but the mouths of the righteous who proclaim such truths brought by Christ and the prophets. The Gospel is the sharpening stone that makes the sword sharper in its proclamation.

Rabbi Handy! Psalm 149:6.

[handys003]

Rabbi Handy! Psalm 149:6.

Brah I did not know that scripture. Mahalo ala nui. I wish I had that for ammo when I was teaching that lesson to a bunch of HP's who were in the Vietnam war.

[3DOP]

Let's see what this statement that Jesus really is anti-war "really means". My son is serving in the United States Marine Corps and I am proud of him. His parish priest suggested that we need good Christians and Catholics in the military when he conferred with him about whether his enlistment might be the will of God? Do we not need good LDS among the Christians in the United States Armed Forces?

Jesus is against war in the same way as He is against influenza. We may avoid it when we can but it eventually comes to us all. Sometimes we have to fight, right? My first LDS contact was a former 20 year miltary man who served in Vietnam in the U.S. Army. I worked with him at the local school district. I can remember being so impressed when one of his high school age daughters called across a crowded cafeteria to him one time expressing to the whole school her love for Daddy. He was a good man. I wonder what he would have said about the proposition of this thread.

Jesus healed the Roman centurion's daughter without one word against his military service and while commending the centurion for his speech about having men under his authority. Not a hint that it was wrong to serve in your nation's military.

[Jeff K.]

Jeff k.:

Be careful lest you thrust your petard in your own heroes.

Imagine

by John Lennon

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

As I said, not a big fan of the song, nor do I consider the context to be desireable.

[Jeff K.]

Where Jehovah or Christ is concerned, no. But that may be because I have given what appeared to be inconsistencies some great thought as to why I consider them such.

[Chris Smith]

War is only a "racket" to those who prescribe nefarious means to everyone who believes in war as an important and necessary thing at times. But guess what, those of us that believe in war for the sake of good, don't look at it "your" foolish way, we believe in it because it is simply THE RIGHT THING TO DO for our brother.

It's not about "money", it's not about "oil", it's not about anything so petty. So, believe your degrading negative fantasies all you want, because you can't understand any other way, but the rest of us know what it's actually all about. It's about LOVE.

Democracies are very good at rationalizing their actions so as to make questionably-motivated violence seem justified. The Spanish "atrocities" that led to the Spanish-American War were largely manufactured by muckraking journalists. We vilified the Germans in World War I. When the WMD justification for the Iraq war fell apart, it was very successfully repackaged as "Operation Iraqi Freedom." Undoubtedly the general public accepted and really believed the moral justifications provided for all of these wars, but that only illustrates the perils of Just War Theory. It's very difficult to know whether a war is really "just" at the time it occurs. During the period leading up to war, there is usually a flurry of salesmanship designed to mobilize popular support on moral grounds. Because most of us are not very good at critically sifting through these arguments, we are rarely able to tell that we've been sold a bill of goods until long after the fact. And by then, we've convinced ourselves that "things have changed, that could never happen to me today."

I do think there are just and necessary wars. World War 2 was one. But I think that they are much rarer than most people are inclined to believe, and that we should be more careful and critical about the arguments that are used to convince us of the justice of a particular war.

Peace,

-Chris

[BCSpace]

I do think there are just and necessary wars. World War 2 was one. But I think that they are much rarer than most people are inclined to believe, and that we should be more careful and critical about the arguments that are used to convince us of the justice of a particular war.

Sure, but we need to be equally as careful about those who oppose a war merely because they hate the leader in question and who try to convince the ignorant public of made-up reasons for going to war or making up nonapplicable standards for war such as was the case in the resumption of the just and necessary Iraq war.

[Facsimile 3]

Democracies are very good at rationalizing their actions so as to make questionably-motivated violence seem justified. The Spanish "atrocities" that led to the Spanish-American War were largely manufactured by muckraking journalists. We vilified the Germans in World War I. When the WMD justification for the Iraq war fell apart, it was very successfully repackaged as "Operation Iraqi Freedom." Undoubtedly the general public accepted and really believed the moral justifications provided for all of these wars, but that only illustrates the perils of Just War Theory. It's very difficult to know whether a war is really "just" at the time it occurs. During the period leading up to war, there is usually a flurry of salesmanship designed to mobilize popular support on moral grounds. Because most of us are not very good at critically sifting through these arguments, we are rarely able to tell that we've been sold a bill of goods until long after the fact. And by then, we've convinced ourselves that "things have changed, that could never happen to me today."

I do think there are just and necessary wars. World War 2 was one. But I think that they are much rarer than most people are inclined to believe, and that we should be more careful and critical about the arguments that are used to convince us of the justice of a particular war.

Peace,

-Chris

I think World War I was pretty necessary for the United States and beneficial for our nation (the only nation the war did benefit, well that's not true, some 3rd world nations that grew a lot of food benefited as well). If Britain fell to the Germans how would they pay back their huge amount of debt to the United States? I miss the days where America could afford to just sit back and loan out boat loads of money.

I know this is being nit picky, but it was actually the English who made the bulk of our anti German propaganda during The Great War (not to mention those white feathers of theirs).