God was a man?

[staccato]

But you cannot be Exalted without first obtaining Salvation. I would recommend you growing in your understanding of that basic requirement. You cannot be Sanctified until you are Justified. You have placed the cart in front of the horse.

- SlackTime

According to you, I don't have to do anything to get saved. It is a gift already bestowed on me. Nor do I want to be sanctified or justified, especially if there are horses involved.

(Exaltation, santification and justification are places I no longer aspire to)

[De Groote]

Here is President Hinckley, in 1997, on being quoted, misquoted and misunderstood.

"The media have been kind and generous to us. This past year of pioneer celebrations has resulted in very extensive, favorable press coverage. There have been a few things we wish might have been different. I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that

[thesometimesaint]

staccato:

Be careful of what you wish for. You just might get it.

[Pahoran]

It amazes me why so many apologists pretend to be surprised that critics would continue to

[juliann]

Amen! But I'll bet there are still some LDS who will claim that this is not our doctrine, even though it's published in one of the Church's own manuals.

Find one.

[Hestia]

And when we hold you accountable for it, we get accused of being pigs ("oh it's because he didn't want to throw pearls out to you"). And then you want respect?

Nemox, your offensive misinterpretations of what a prophet says and what LDS say is getting tiresome. Clean up your act.

[Deborah]

Here is President Hinckley, in 1997, on being quoted, misquoted and misunderstood.

Unfortunately the critics don't care about the facts. They want to nitpick every word and try to twist it to fit their preconceived notions.

[cksalmon]

No! No! Please, no!

The critics need to milk this one for another two or three decades at least.

Well, truth be told, there's really not much left to milk when even the Internet Mormons have "imprimatured" the belief that faithful LDS can become "creator" gods with "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge."

Romans 1 comes to mind, of course.

Sheesh! Just when one thinks he has the lay of the cyberland, here come the historically orthodox Internet Mormons.

Thanks, Bernard, for having the courage of your convictions: God was once a man; you can become a creator god like him with "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge."

The erstwhile anti-Mormon canard blossoms before our eyes into a doctrinal carnation.

cks

[Markk]

Unfortunately the critics don't care about the facts. They want to nitpick every word and try to twist it to fit their preconceived notions.

Hi Deborah,

So...what is the teaching of the church on this subject? What I'm getting at what do you believe...?

*Does every man, through obedience to the eternal laws of the gospel, have the chance or opportunity to become a god through progression.

*Will a man the acheives godhood have a wife/wives and eternally procreate (continuation of seeds D&C 132) and populate their own worlds without end.

*In relationship with eternal progression, and that Elohim had a father and so on and so on, is it safe to assume that every man that achives Godhood will have the same attributes as Elohim...ie. all knowing and all powerful?

These are questions that are typically uncomfortable for LDS members to acknowlage, for I suppose different reasons, each of these subjects have been taught as LDS doctrines by past leaders and now that it is once again being taught openly, do you agree with these points I have pointed out?

Mark

[SeattleGhostWriter]

Ahh? So the god makers was correct then, your going to spend eternity populating planets, DP was right though, at least three decades. I suggest some posters here hit the archives and start editing.

Mark

No, the God Makers is not correct.

Why?

Because nowhere in LDS doctrine on Eternal Progression and Exaltation will you find the teaching that Mankind will have sexual gratification in the eternities where their wife (or wives) will be eternally pregnant and birthing billions of spirit children.

Why?

Because when you look at the doctrine in its pure form, you will find that God "fashioned" the spirits from the intelligences that existed. There is nothing about sexual intercourse and conception.

[Markk]

Find one.

LDS Teaching Manual as follows:

Page 277. "These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:...2. They

will become gods...5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and

Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge."

Jeff Lindsey:

Knowing who Christ is makes me very suspicious of anyone who says that we will become EXACTLY like Him. The Bible teaches that we can become "joint heirs" (Rom. 8:14-18) and can become "like him" (I John 3:2) and indeed, need to become like him (Matt. 5:48) and be one with him (John 17:21-23). Stronger still, Paul in Philippians 2: 5-7 seems to urge us to pursue that goal, not through puffery, but through humble service:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...."

However, I sense a world of difference between the "small g" gods that Christ mentioned (John 10:34) in speaking of the potential of humans (my view) and God the Eternal Father, who is the one and only everlasting God (see also I Cor. 8:5,6). The reference to humans as potential "gods" is clearly meant in a limited sense, but the word God uses nevertheless is "gods." Obviously, we know too little to explain anything in depth about the next life and about "the glory that shall be revealed in us" (Romans 8:18). We are like microbes looking up through the microscope and speculating about the Scientist who observes us. We are children, following after our very wise and mature Father, knowing little more than a young child does of the things of God. This we know: the glory is to the Father (and Christ) forever. May we return to their presence.

Remember the LDS Church now clearly teaches what was taught by past GA's, that man can become a god with ..." ALL power, glory, dominion, and knowledge." and have..." EVERTHING that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have..." And,..." These are [just] "SOME" of the blessings given to exalted people..."

Mark

[bizabra]

And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife

[Markk]

No, the God Makers is not correct.

Why?

Because nowhere in LDS doctrine on Eternal Progression and Exaltation will you find the teaching that Mankind will have sexual gratification in the eternities where their wife (or wives) will be eternally pregnant and birthing billions of spirit children.

Why?

Because when you look at the doctrine in its pure form, you will find that God "fashioned" the spirits from the intelligences that existed. There is nothing about sexual intercourse and conception.

Ever read Apostle Pratts beliefs on this?

Mark

[LeSellers]

Ever read Apostle Pratts beliefs on this?

Yes.

One wonders if you have read the unanimous rejection of that belief by the First Presidency and the whole of the Quorum of the Twelve of those beliefs. It is interesting that, among those who rejected them was one Parley P. Pratt.

Lehi

[Markk]

Yes.

One wonders if you have read the unanimous rejection of that belief by the First Presidency and the whole of the Quorum of the Twelve of those beliefs. It is interesting that, among those who rejected them was one Parley P. Pratt.

Lehi

What does continuation of seeds mean. If you become a God, how will your children come into existence? Are simply going to fashion them, or will they have a heavenly Mother?

I don't believe Pratts theory was rejected in a general sense, but in his adding his math skills to the teaching.

Mark

John 1:12

[LeSellers]

What does continuation of seeds mean. If you become a God, how will your children come into existence? Are simply going to fashion them, or will they have a heavenly Mother?

We don't know.

And neither do you know what we "ought to" believe, no matter how many seminary lessons you may have slept through.

I don't believe Pratts theory was rejected in a general sense, but in his adding his math skills to the teaching.

You are entitled to believe any fool thing you like, but your belief does not make it so.

The entire book was rejected, as you seem to have conveniently forgotten.

Lehi

[Markk]

We don't know.

And neither do you know what we "ought to" believe, no matter how many seminary lessons you may have slept through.

You are entitled to believe any fool thing you like, but your belief does not make it so.

The entire book was rejected, as you seem to have conveniently forgotten.

Lehi

Hi Lehi,

Do you disagree with these LDS leaders?...why?

BH Roberts quotes Pratt, he obviously approved his teachings:

'How very plain it is when we once learn about our future heaven. We do not have to pray, according to the Methodists, for the Lord to take us to a land beyond time and space, the Saints, secure abode. How inconsistent to look for a heaven beyond space! The heaven of the Saints is something we can look forward to in the confident hope of realizing our inheritances and enjoying them forever, when the earth becomes sanctified and made new. And there, as here, we will spread forth, and multiply our children. How long? For eternity. What, resurrected Saints have children? Yes, the same as our God, who is the Father of our spirits; so you, if you are faithful to the end, will become fathers to your sons and daughters, who will be as innumerable as the sands upon the sea shore; they will be your children, and you will be their heavenly fathers, the same as our heavenly Father is Father to us, and they will belong to your kingdoms through all the vast ages of eternity, the same as we will belong to our father's kingdom.'

Also

JFS wrote:

Parents will have eternal claim upon their posterity and will have the gift of eternal increase, if they obtain the exaltation. This is the crowning glory in the kingdom of God, and they will have no end. When the Lord says they will have no end, he means that all who attain to this glory will have the blessing of the continuation of the "seeds" forever. Those who fail to obtain this blessing come to the "deaths," which means that they will have no increase, forever. All who obtain this exaltation will have the privilege of completing the full measure of their existence, and they will have a posterity that will be as innumerable as the stars of heaven.Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.44:

The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48:

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2:

..."The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all resurrected and perfected mortals become gods (cf. Gen. 3:22; Matt. 5:48). They will dwell again with God the Father, and live and act like him in endless worlds of happiness, power, love, glory, and knowledge; above all, they will have the power of procreating endless lives..."

Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p.708:

Of those who enter the Lord's order of matrimony and who keep their covenants ..., the Lord says: "They shall pass by the angels, and the gods, ...to their exaltation and glory in all things, ...which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever." That is to say, eternal life consists of two things: (1) the continuation of the family unit in eternity, which means a continuation of the seeds or the everlasting begetting of children; and (2) the receipt of the fulness of the glory of the Father, which is all power in heaven and on earth.

[Deborah]

How thankful we should all be that we have Markk to enlighten us on what we believe and to find all the obscure quotes to pound into us our correct beliefs. What would we do without all the critics preaching our true beliefs.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

How thankful we should all be that we have Markk to enlighten us on what we believe and to find all the obscure quotes to pound into us our correct beliefs. What would we do without all the critics preaching our true beliefs.

Yeah, I agree. Markk has shown us the way of the evil mormons. Thank goodness we have Markk. Now I can beleive in the true Jesus.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Maybe I'm late with this information. If so, ignore this.

Many critics say the Church is downplaying the doctrine that God was

once a man like us. Let's put it to rest once and for all.

New Gospel Essentials Manual, the one that will be used by the Relief

Society and Priesthood Quorums for instruction in 2010, and thereafter

by the Gospel Essentials class in Sunday School (the class for investigators

and new converts), chapter 47 "Exaltation"

says,

Page 275. "When we lived with our Heavenly Father, He explained a plan for our

progression. We could become like him, an exalted being...when life ended,

we would be judged and rewarded according to the degree of our faith and obedience...

exaltations is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory.

He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of

spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father..."

Page 277. "These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:...2. They

will become gods...5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and

Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge."

Page 279. "Joseph Smith taught, 'It is the first principle of the Gospel to know

for a certainty the Character of God...He was once a man like us; ...God Himself,

the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did."

Let's put this baby to rest.

Bernard

Well that settles it...its doctrine.

[Markk]

How thankful we should all be that we have Markk to enlighten us on what we believe and to find all the obscure quotes to pound into us our correct beliefs. What would we do without all the critics preaching our true beliefs.

Hi Deborah,

I never said anything about what anybody believes other than the obvious quotes by those I pasted. I have no idea what you believe or who the "we" are. These quotes are not obscure, some of these sources are also quoted in the NEW manual ( see the chapter on exaltation both JFS and BM are quoted)they are just as available and even more so in some cases that the "Joseph had a Gun proof texts, you can't have it both ways, at least logically.

Everyone of these teachings above were understood clearly by LDS members.

Instead of making this about "Markk", why not just address what you believe, that is if you have a belief on what continuation of seeds mean. One poster said that it means to be "fashioned", a cfr explaining that would help.

Eternal Marriage and Temple endowments are a requirement for exaltation to Godhood...why? The LDS church teaches that there is a " Heavenly Mother"...why? In other words do you believe that your Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, are your literal parents, pro created through natural relation, or a creation much like a potter creates a pot, which generally the Biblical context of "fashion". Now that the Church has acknowledged the teaching man can progress to the very same level of God that Elohim and Jehovah are, with "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge."

Anyway, your argument isn't really with me, I've been consistent throughout the years here that what the church now openly teaches in the manual is doctrine, your argument is with the teachings or the church, not the messenger.

Deborah you have a chance here to go on the record of what you believe the church teaches on this matter, but that's a choice...yours?

Mark

[SlackTime]

Taking a different approach to the OP. According to Moses, (at least our Book of Moses) God still is a Man, and his son is the Son of Man...

57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

35 Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel is my name; and Endless and Eternal is my name, also.

Seems like we have a lot of New Testament Scriptures attributing that name to Christ, Son of Man I mean.

- SlackTime

[Lightbearer]

Please explain to me why sexual relations between husband and wife and their conceiving a child is considered evil or wicked or unholy or not godlike? It is not the proper and lawful use of these powers of procreation that are unholy, but the perversion and or unlawful use of it that is an abomination. Please show one verse in the standard works or the writings of the prophets or apostles that condemns the lawful use of this creative power by those who are lawfully wedded? I know some of the leaders of some of the other Churches of Christendom may, but I am talking about those in the LDS Church. I also think there is great impropriety with those Anti-Mormon "shock mongers " who defile both God and His Gospel with such comments about God's sexuality that make LDS retreat into a position where we must rationalize some "artificial means" of God's procreation. It is disgusting and is like someone trying to talk about their earthly parent's sexuality in public. How so-called Christians could bring up such a subject is astonishing, but they play the "mud slinger" to the very hilt and to them nothing is sacred, so why should I be surprised? It seems to be some sort of fetish with these emissaries of the evil one, but I do believe that such discussions are forbidden on this board, so I will for forbear from further comment on the subject but will only add this quote:

(Hebrews 13:4) "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

Not a hint of sin connected with marriage or marital relations there. So when God said "Multiply and replenish the earth" I do not think He had "cloning" in mind.

[Markk]

Taking a different approach to the OP. According to Moses, (at least our Book of Moses) God still is a Man, and his son is the Son of Man...

Seems like we have a lot of New Testament Scriptures attributing that name to Christ, Son of Man I mean.

- SlackTime

I can't speak for Moses, if you believe that God is a man then I would say fine, that's certainly your choice, but I would argue from a LDS perspective that your interpretation flies in the face of LDS teachings and the eternal law of progression.

As far as the NT, Jesus is both the Son of Man and the Son of God, it simply means order of or guild. SoG refers to His divine nature while SoM refers to his human nature...see Phil. 2:5-9, being equal with God Christ emptied Himself by reputation and made Himself a man to die for man kind.

The same would go for the son of perdition,sons of the concubines, sons of thunder...etc

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I can't speak for Moses, if you believe that God is a man then I would say fine, that's certainly your choice, but I would argue from a LDS perspective that your interpretation flies in the face of LDS teachings and the eternal law of progression.

As far as the NT, Jesus is both the Son of Man and the Son of God, it simply means order of or guild. SoG refers to His divine nature while SoM refers to his human nature...see Phil. 2:5-9, being equal with God Christ emptied Himself by reputation and made Himself a man to die for man kind.

The same would go for the son of perdition,sons of the concubines, sons of thunder...etc

Once again Markk is here to tell us what is and what is not LDS doctrine. I am so glad that you can tell me what flies in the face of LDS doctrine. Whew.