Pre-Existence Study: Did we Choose Our Parents?

[O-Brother]

I realize that these questions are impossible to answer with any degree of certainty but do you think we chose our parents before we were born? Our families? The country or even what mission we wanted to have in life? When we made our choices, did we weigh in all the variables or did we make random, generic choices?

Variables:

If we chose our parents, then what happens with abortions and infanticide?

Divorce?

Genetic Makeup?

Poverty?

Wealth?

Royalty?

Ethnicity?

[thesometimesaint]

O-Brother:

We are all given a unique test. One that will try and test us. To see if we will do whatsoever the Lord our God will command us.

[Redefined]

I think we choose everything, and we have a plan B, C and D, too for all the variability that will occur here on earth. For instance, if certain spirit was supposed to come down to be your child, the "pre-ordained" path can change if the pregnancy was aborted.

[thesometimesaint]

Redefined:

That is making a lot assumption.

[Redefined]

thesometimesaint:

Of course. . . thus the point of a hypothetical.

[mercyngrace]

My SIL had a blessing when she was pregnant that referred to a pre-mortal relationship between her and her as-yet-unborn daughter. So I believe that either we chose or more likely HF allowed pre-existing relationships to continue here whether biologically or through circumstance.

[BCSpace]

I believe that to us it looks random but that HF actually has a formula that is used to get you into the proper situation for you. As much as I enjoy Saturday's Warriors, I tend to discount it. Although, perhaps after the formula has been run, we get together with people going to similar places/families. Problem with that is it leaves time for something to happen on earth that changes things in Heaven. That is why I tend to think we go where we go without much prior knowledge.

[mercyngrace]

I believe that to us it looks random but that HF actually has a formula that is used to get you into the proper situation for you. As much as I enjoy Saturday's Warriors, I tend to discount it. Although, perhaps after the formula has been run, we get together with people going to similar places/families. Problem with that is it leaves time for something to happen on earth that changes things in Heaven. That is why I tend to think we go where we go without much prior knowledge.

Funny you mentioned Saturday's Warriors. I almost referenced that and then changed my mind. I always thought it was hokey nonsense until I went on my mission and met someone who knew me - and I knew him. I have no doubt that if I hadn't served my mission, someone else would have taught him and yet, I know and he knew, even before he learned much about the gospel, that we were well acquainted before we met on earth. It was both a strange and profound experience.

[Somebodyz]

I realize that these questions are impossible to answer with any degree of certainty but do you think we chose our parents before we were born?

Not sure chose is the word, perhaps, assigned. I believe some people are meant to be in a particular family..ie Joseph Smith, (not just important people). But mostly it probably doesn't matter, which family we are in.

Our families? The country or even what mission we wanted to have in life? When we made our choices, did we weigh in all the variables or did we make random, generic choices?

Variables:

If we chose our parents, then what happens with abortions and infanticide?

Divorce?

Genetic Makeup?

Poverty?

Wealth?

Royalty?

Ethnicity?

Choices made on earth, effect some choices we may have made as spirits, but as long as everyone gets a body, it probably does not make a whole lot of difference.

[O-Brother]

I believe that to us it looks random but that HF actually has a formula that is used to get you into the proper situation for you. As much as I enjoy Saturday's Warriors, I tend to discount it. Although, perhaps after the formula has been run, we get together with people going to similar places/families. Problem with that is it leaves time for something to happen on earth that changes things in Heaven. That is why I tend to think we go where we go without much prior knowledge.

I think all opinions above yours are valid. We are here to see what we will do. And yes, things are hypothetical. I've read that God also operates using certain laws and principles He does not deviate from. The moment we enter this world we become subject to the laws of the this world, true? I don't know anything for sure but I wonder how we made choices that would affect us here. Not only that, think about it, if you made a choice to be born to a certain pair of parents or a single mother, poor and in Africa, for example, your choice would not only affect you but all those who come out of you, which poses the question: did your choice also affect theirs as your offspring? When your great-grandparents made their choice to come to America - from the pre-existence - did their choices affect yours?

I tend to think that we may have made our choices with familial participation and according to our seed, no?

[hordak]

I have heard this in my youth in primary but I don't think so.

If it was there would be far more Buffy Rockafellers then Cletus smiths.

Plus we would really have to look at this whole adoption thing. Should one give up a gift from God, a spirit that chose them? Now i have heard those who have adopted state their adopted child was "meant" for their family. But this seems like a pretty inefficient way to get souls where they choose to be. Sure it might be great for gaining family but knowing some women who have been on the "losings side" and think it's pretty selfish to think God would put the birth mother through so much emotional agony so they could get a baby.

Add to that the children who are adopted into less then fortunate circumstances, and the complication of free will. (If one is supposed to be adopted into family X,(or even born into) while family x is looking then the birth mother (an unwed 15 year old girl) was really fulfilling part of Gods plan by having drunken unprotected sex with her boyfriend can she really be called a sinner?

I would say no.

[BlueDreams]

I don't know if it was necessarily a choice, but sort of what would fit our ultimate goals/purposes for this life best. I see it in the same light as "choosing" a profession or choosing a college to attend. Not necessarily a free-for-all sort of thing, but a decision of where we are needed based on who we are. I do believe i'm in the family that I was supposed to be a part of. I had an experience that reiterated this point quite definitively, leaving little doubt (to me) that the beginning of my path wasn't one solely of random desires and chance on the part of my parents (which were a mix of very poor desires/chance mixed with a deal of good intent). Unlike most, this started with an earthly posssibility for that perfect mormon family ideal: financially secure, married, sealed in the temple, firmly in/following the gospel, etc. And what I would get, which (at the time, especially) was none of these things. I personally feel that there was a need for me to be with the people I'm with, and the family I'm in.

I don't know how it works for everybody else, but I would assume that where they are is both significant and needed as well. I doubt God would play russian roulette with his children. But it also means that many of us will end up in circumstance that are not always the world's ideal or even in the range of comfortable.

If we chose our parents, then what happens with abortions and infanticide?

Divorce? Genetic Makeup? Poverty? Wealth? Royalty? Ethnicity?

As for these and other things that may effect our lives both positively/negatively, it is the product of living in the world we are in. We cannot choose to have a perfect life. For one, that choice doesn't actually exist. For the other it is one of the subtexts in living in a world where people are free to choose. Good, evil, and the frailties of humanity are not things that stay bound within one individual. They bleed all over the place, having effects and counter-effects on all of us.

That we have genetic disorders speaks of the fact that we are in an imperfect mortal state, that our parents can make detrimental decisions for our lives/familys speaks of the marred and dirty state of our people, that there are categories of extreme wealth and poverty is a symptom of a deeply sick society, that there are things like royalty and ethnicity, with people living completely seperate types of lives shows the deep divisions that leave us seperated from truly zion societies where -ites are removed and the best description for all of us is simply sons and daughters of God. What it says about us born in the middle of it, is that we're in the last days where evil is very pervasive, none of us will be able to fully seperate ourselves from its effects, and that we must be strong in this last chapter prior to the millenium.

Basically, whether we chose everything specically or not, it means that we decided we would do it for better or for worse. That's the choice that matters most.

With luv,

BD

[Thorkyll]

No, we didn't choose. Such claims are dangerous, as they may lead to feudalism and notions of a caste.

The argument might be "God chose some people to be impoverished or enslaved, so poverty and slavery are ordained by God".

That is not good.

I realize that these questions are impossible to answer with any degree of certainty but do you think we chose our parents before we were born? Our families? The country or even what mission we wanted to have in life? When we made our choices, did we weigh in all the variables or did we make random, generic choices?

Variables:

If we chose our parents, then what happens with abortions and infanticide?

Divorce?

Genetic Makeup?

Poverty?

Wealth?

Royalty?

Ethnicity?

[cinepro]

I realize that these questions are impossible to answer with any degree of certainty but do you think we chose our parents before we were born? Our families? The country or even what mission we wanted to have in life? When we made our choices, did we weigh in all the variables or did we make random, generic choices?

I vote for "totally random", with the spirit getting randomly assigned at the last moment, and God making up for inequalities after it is all said and done.

The argument might be "God chose some people to be impoverished or enslaved, so poverty and slavery are ordained by God".

That is not good.

But what if it's true, and that is how God wants it? Even Prophets and Apostles have argued as much, so we can't totally dismiss the possibility...can we?

[BlueDreams]

No, we didn't choose. Such claims are dangerous, as they may lead to feudalism and notions of a caste.

The argument might be "God chose some people to be impoverished or enslaved, so poverty and slavery are ordained by God".

That is not good.

No, it's definitely not. But to choose is not inherently wrong simply because people may choose to twist that to fit their own inequalities/prejudices.

That and idea can be twisted to support falsehoods, does not negate that the initial/pure idea was not true.

With luv,

BD

[O-Brother]

I have heard this in my youth in primary but I don't think so.

If it was there would be far more Buffy Rockafellers then Cletus smiths.

Plus we would really have to look at this whole adoption thing. Should one give up a gift from God, a spirit that chose them? Now i have heard those who have adopted state their adopted child was "meant" for their family. But this seems like a pretty inefficient way to get souls where they choose to be. Sure it might be great for gaining family but knowing some women who have been on the "losings side" and think it's pretty selfish to think God would put the birth mother through so much emotional agony so they could get a baby.

Add to that the children who are adopted into less then fortunate circumstances, and the complication of free will. (If one is supposed to be adopted into family X,(or even born into) while family x is looking then the birth mother (an unwed 15 year old girl) was really fulfilling part of Gods plan by having drunken unprotected sex with her boyfriend can she really be called a sinner?

I would say no.

God works in mysterious ways. I think we made choices that might include some benefits but those choices were probably contingent on many factors such as performance in the pre-existence and spiritual grade. The rest is probably subject to things of this world such as genetic make up, opportunities, countries, family, etc. One thing we know for sure: there is the fortunate, the struggling, the very fortunate, the unfortunate, the lucky, the unlucky, the poor devil, the devil's poor,the great, the good, the bad and the ugly in this world.

I remember comments about people born with disabilities. That they were actually more noble spirits than the rest of us. I am not sure where that idea came from but it could be true. I am familiar with one man, a theoretical astrophysicist by the name of Stephen Hawking,CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA, who is physically disabled and yet he's considered one of the greatest minds of our time. Did he choose his body and circumstances?

[Maya]

I know I chose my parents.... I climbed up in my fathers lap and put my hands around his neck... then he said to my mother: I think we take this girl.... I was around 1 years old witing for adaption

[Somebodyz]

I know I chose my parents.... I climbed up in my fathers lap and put my hands around his neck... then he said to my mother: I think we take this girl.... I was around 1 years old witing for adaption

Cute. I was put in an orphanage at 9mths, adopted at 6 years. As with birth mothers, I think sometimes it's meant to be and other times it's just luck or bad luck.

[BCSpace]

I know I chose my parents....

We took a parenting class run by an LDS person long ago. After that, whenever one of our kids wishes they were in a different family for whatever reason (permissions, money, rules, etc.), we remind them that in the pre-existence, when an opening came up for our family, they straightway lept up out of their seat crying:

"Send me! Send me!....You! Get back! Get out of my way!....Send me!"

I hope we're not instilling too much false doctrine....

[Jason]

I think we may well have chosen, to some extent, but that Heavenly Father had final approval, and ensured that everyone recevied what they would need in this life. Or, alternately, they would receive what they needed and would be able to provide what others needed as well. In some cases what others need is the chance to do wrong.

[Sarcophyton]

I like to think that we were all family in the pre-existence and though we may have had stronger bonds with some than others, we were happy to share our mortal existence with any one of our brothers and sisters. I also like the following very paraphrased quote/idea from Elder Maxwell:

Of the Nativity story, Elder Maxwell says, 'It is not solely about some other time, some other place, and some other people. It is still unfolding and we are in it!' He shares nine points of counsel such as, 'We should be like that Christmas star- in our proper orbit and place, on time, putting our talents to work, doing what we have been asked to do. God has placed us in our proper human orbits with the same precision. He used as He placed that star in a certain trajectory ages before it shone brightly that special night.'

Elder Maxwell suggests that our lives have been situated by god in the same precise manner as the star that announced the birth of Christ. I agree that our place in life is not random. I am not certain of the degree of our choice in the matter.

[handys003]

I realize that these questions are impossible to answer with any degree of certainty but do you think we chose our parents before we were born? Our families? The country or even what mission we wanted to have in life? When we made our choices, did we weigh in all the variables or did we make random, generic choices?

Variables:

If we chose our parents, then what happens with abortions and infanticide?

Divorce?

Genetic Makeup?

Poverty?

Wealth?

Royalty?

Ethnicity?

First, I have to say this one topic is one of your better thought provoking questions I've seen from you.

Second, It has sometimes always been an obvious speculative thought on my own search as I formulate my preponderance on such.

I always ask myself:

Is it a form of incest being born of your mother and father who in Mormon thought are brother and sisters in the premortal world?

Why, these particular two? Did we form an agreement long ago? Why this entire lineage and how through our youth do we stumble upon the right one? Why was I born in to this type of family i.e... such as white and middle class, and not into an African family in Nigeria with poor economic, and war conditions? Did I and my parents choose this way or was it HF decision?

It's like thinking where does the universe begin and end. It can be quite overwhelming sometimes. However I pray about it and the spirit always comes back with the same answer. It will be apparent when you come back to your true home. What matters is to learn and correct our faults to exalt ourselves, and to quit worrying about all those questions. I swear that's what I get everytime, so I guess it's one of the things to learn. Not to sweat the big stuff and learn the small stuff. They add up to the big stuff in the end.

[Lightbearer]

Inasmuch as foreordination is a doctrine of the Church, I would say that there is a strong probability that we choose our parents or more specifically that we made covenants in the pre-mortal life to be in certain families. This much I do know, my son who we adopted, was in the pre-earth life promised that I would raise him as his father. This was revealed to me personally by the power of the Holy Ghost and it has been done. I do understand the problem with agency and how all this could possibly work, I do not fully understand it. I just know what I know. I believe that we also made covenants in the pre-mortal life and that perhaps (this is speculation on my part) we received a Patriarchal blessing under the hands of our heavenly father before we came here. Perhaps we had revealed to us a vision of our life here... not a predestination saved or damned no matter what we do, but rather a blessing of encouragement to show the possibilities of what would be if we made correct choices. Since God has all knowledge and knows the end from the beginning it is not too much of a stretch for me to believe this is true. It would sort of explain some "dejavue" experiences I have had in my life. Since the veil is over our memories it is difficult to say if any of this is accurate or if it applies to all, but sometimes the veil is lifted and we do get a glimpse of eternity, and that has occurred with relationship to my son. Although he was born of other parents, I am his rightful father and he is my rightful heir, my wife and I were sealed to him the day after the adoption was final. So the answer could be "in some cases we did choose" but I do not know if it is generally true in all cases.

[Fiannan]

I studied up on Tibet and its religion before spending some time there last year. They have an interesting take on this issue in their Book of the Dead. It seems they believe when you die, and if you led a good life, you are reincarnated. Your spirit enters a room where people are in the act of procreation. These couples are going to be at a stage you need to advance to in the next life. As you examine the couples you can see what events will take place in your life. You are then able to choose which woman you will give birth to the body with your spirit. Now if you take the reincarnation part out of it maybe that is the way we are given our choice in the pre-existence.

Another thing that hit me strangely last year was that I was reading a book on pre-birth experiences (not near death, more like when a woman knows the spirit she will carry into this life). Without going into a lot of New age sounding stuff the authors contend that spirits in the pre-existence will try to inspire people to get together and have them as a child -- much the same way an audience, even conservative people for that matter, will watch a romance movie and hope the lead couple winds up in the sack and then married. Come on, even middle-aged women watching Twighlight want the sparkly metrosexual vampire to put the bite on the girl. Is this an explaination as to why you might meet someone and have an immediate attraction to them? That would really get weird if we consider Saturday's Warriors and then realize the role of polygamy in an ideal state of things.

[rockslider]

I believe "familiar spirits" go well beyond parent/child relationships, as has been mentioned by others here.