Exaltaion requirements

[jimg]

James.....Indeed the bible is clear about the first requirements of individual "salvation". Peter gave a pretty good overview to the men who were convinced by the preaching of the apostles on the day of Pentecost. They ask what they should do to be saved and Peter said, in effect, to repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and to receive the Holy Ghost. These things would put them on the road to individual salvation. Although it's not recorded that Peter said it at this time, there is another requirement........endure to the end.

I think, however, that you are asking about exaltation, not just salvation. To qualify for the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom one must be sealed by the power of the Priesthood to one's spouse. Only families dwell there, not single individuals. If I and my spouse make it there some day, I will be happy. I see it as a worthy goal.

If others are there with multiple spouses, I will have no complaint for it will be with my Heavenly Father's approval and consent. I am open to it. I am not one to tell God how to run His house. I only concern myself with what pertains to me. If other things present themselves in the future, I will consider them at that point. Right now my spouse and I have been sealed to each other, and our three children have been sealed to us as a sealed couple. I leave others to do as they think best for themselves.

Jim in Texas

I just reread my post above and it comes off pretty "stuck up". Sorry, I didn't intend it to be. I was just trying to explain some stuff that can be confusing to some not familiar with LDS teachings.

[Flyonthewall]

Just as a thought to the OP, if Moses or Aaron or Joshua stated that one must obey the Law of Moses to be "saved", would they be proven false prophets now that the Law of Moses has been fulfilled and no longer practiced?

[rjohnson7]

I thought I had made that clear.. Richard says a person must be a polygamist if not in pratice they must be a Polygamist of the heart. That is why I worded the question as I did.. IHS jim

James is misquoting me again, I only stated that James got it wrong by quoting out of context, and failed to give the full context of what Brigham actually stated, which I believe James intentionally MISREPRESENTED our doctrine.

I believe that we obey all of Gods commandments, and when Joseph was required to take more then one wife, that it was a commandment from God.

[Doctor Steuss]

Start a thread and share so I can piggy-back!

I wouldn

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am sorry that you have taken this a your doctrine concerning this book of scripture.. I always use the Bible to help understand the Bible.. I call this the Biblical approach.. Here there are many NT references to the entire Book of Isaiah that he was the author of the WHOLE book.. (Matt. 3:3, 8:17, 12:18; John 1:23, 12:38; Rom. 10:16, 10:26). I won't bend to liberal thinking in this matter.. If you really trust the words of Jesus I don't see how you could do so either... IHS jim

James, I thank you for the respectful dialogue that we have had thus far. It really was one of the more pleasurable exchanges I have had. I hope that you have learned something. At least in how I look at certain passage. If not, it is no skin off of my nose. I will still participate in this thread but I won't be headlining it any more.

[SearchDog]

I understand your views and welcome your input.. I disagree with you of course.. The Bible is clear that salvation come faith in Jesus plus nothing.. That will be a huge separator between us.. IHS jim

Yes, I agree. Salvation and exaltation are what separates Mormons from Christians. Salvation is one glory and exaltation is another. The first brings you into the kingdom of heaven as a child of God, the second progresses an individual in the priesthood and further into eternal marriage as an eternal pair made in the image of God.

Salvation in Christ is the promise given to all as a remedy for the fall of Adam. Exaltation is the fulfillment of the promise God gave to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his posterity. We in the LDS church are Jacob's posterity. The LDS hold the covenant given to Israel. Those in the covenant of salvation are the sons of Abraham, not the sons of Israel.

Mormons are generationally separated from Christians. Those LDS who receive a patriarchal blessing are most often named as the descendants of Ephraim or Manasseh. Our children are the fifth generation (spiritually speaking) from Abraham. Believers are made the sons of Abraham, one generation from the father of monotheism.

Acceptance into Israel is the same as acceptance into the LDS church. It is a progression that requires a proper baptism unto repentance by the authority of Christ's priesthood. It requires humility and submission to the lesser priesthood of Aaron, even as Christ submitted to being baptized by John.

There is so much more I could say, but for now I will end by clarifying that many Christians seem to equate exaltation with resurrection. This is not the case. All will be resurrected, some to glory, but others will be resurrected unto their own wickedness and eternal damnation. This has been made known by modern revelation from the BOM.

Exaltation is resurrection unto the covenant of eternal progression in Israel, while salvation is resurrection unto the removal of your sins through the Atonement of Christ.

One cannot be resurrected beyond their faith. If your faith is not unto eternal progression in eternal marriage toward obtaining His Godliness in the priesthood than you cannot obtain it, you cannot be exalted as a priest without entering into the covenant that establishes it. In the same way, if ones faith does not bring them to Christ, they cannot be saved.

If one thinks about it, prays about it, and reads about it in all of the scriptures with the faith that God speaks to those who believe, the Spirit will progress your faith and you too shall know, even as I do.

[James Banta]

Is James Banta's theology really a bible believing church? Only as far as it agrees with the teachings and doctrines of what James Banta understands..

Please stop with these kind of rhetorical talking points. They serve no purpose.

Just show me how I deny the Bible and you support it.. I have shown you where I do and you don't IHS jim

[James Banta]

40. Frank Moore Cross, Jr., "The Council of Yahweh in Second Isaiah," Journal of Near Eastern Studies, (12) 1953

41. Michael S. Heiser, "Introduction to the Divine Council," IVP Dictionary Article Draft, 2008

But if I know James and the other CARMites, these two will be dismissed as "liberal scholars." Nevermind that Heiser has a Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible & Semitic Languages, while Cross is the Hancock Professor Emeritus of Hebrew and Other Oriental Languages at Harvard.

You start from an inaccurate idea.. I am NOT a member of CARM.. I do post on Walter Martin but not on CARM.. I am willing to trust the Bible over the doctrines of men.. I believe that any believing Latter Day Saint would do the same.. So I reject them because they do not aspire to the orthodox doctrine of the Bible.. You don't accept what I say.. It's the say thing as asking me to believe your scholars.. IHS jim

[WalkerW]

You start from an inaccurate idea.. I am NOT a member of CARM.. I do post on Walter Martin but not on CARM.

Confused you with someone else. My bad.

I am willing to trust the Bible over the doctrines of men.

But they quote the Bible and analyze it. You need to deal with their analysis.

So I reject them because they do not aspire to the orthodox doctrine of the Bible.

They do not aspire to your theology. And if you are more worried about saving face with traditional orthodoxy, then you aren't really interested in research or discussion.

It's the say thing as asking me to believe your scholars.

I'm asking you to look at what experts in the field have concluded based on an analysis of the text, language, and so forth. Until you can give a good reason for rejecting their conclusions, your posts are beyond worthless.

[James Banta]

I know I

[James Banta]

Heiser and Cross did stick with the scriptures: Cross explained the Hebrew in the specific chapter and drew parallels between Isaiah 40 and Isaiah 6. Heiser pointed out that Babylon uses the same phrasing as the Lord elsewhere in Isaiah.

And I don't particularly care what your terms are for debate. If you have nothing except your personal interpretation of scripture, that is your problem, not mine.

If you see it as a problem that's fine.. If your sources are Biblical then quote them and show where their position is supported.. I will check it out but I won't take the time to read their books.. You do that.. I have enough to try to keep up with.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

James.....Indeed the bible is clear about the first requirements of individual "salvation". Peter gave a pretty good overview to the men who were convinced by the preaching of the apostles on the day of Pentecost. They ask what they should do to be saved and Peter said, in effect, to repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and to receive the Holy Ghost. These things would put them on the road to individual salvation. Although it's not recorded that Peter said it at this time, there is another requirement........endure to the end.

I think, however, that you are asking about exaltation, not just salvation. To qualify for the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom one must be sealed by the power of the Priesthood to one's spouse. Only families dwell there, not single individuals. If I and my spouse make it there some day, I will be happy. I see it as a worthy goal.

If others are there with multiple spouses, I will have no complaint for it will be with my Heavenly Father's approval and consent. I am open to it. I am not one to tell God how to run His house. I only concern myself with what pertains to me. If other things present themselves in the future, I will consider them at that point. Right now my spouse and I have been sealed to each other, and our three children have been sealed to us as a sealed couple. I leave others to do as they think best for themselves.

Jim in Texas

This this really what Peter said? To " in effect, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and to receive the Holy Ghost."? Lets look

Acts 10:43

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 11:17

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

These are the the words and testimony of Peter. That all who believe have their sin forgiven, and that we should not stand in the way of God when He has made His salvation clear.. No of this came as a result of any works or ordinance just by faith in Jesus.. That is the testimony of the Gospel of Jesus..

In the Bible salvation is exaltation.. Salvation is the highest gift of God.. Paul was not married. He had strong feelings about marriage. He didn't believe it was the best estate for any believer.. Are you telling me that Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, will not enter exaltation? Jesus didn't teach of such a condition over salvation.. Eternal life and salvation as taught in the Bible are the same thing.. There is life, being with God eternally and there is death, the Lake of Fire.. There is no in between. Priesthood is a whole different issue.. If you want to discuss it That would be fine I am at jbanta_utah@yahoo.com.. The same would have to go for temples.. I will discuss it but not here.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Just as a thought to the OP, if Moses or Aaron or Joshua stated that one must obey the Law of Moses to be "saved", would they be proven false prophets now that the Law of Moses has been fulfilled and no longer practiced?

Jesus told us that we are still subject to the Law..

Matt 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If you haven't been keeping it perfectly then you are in sin and the wages of sin is death.. You need Jesus and the salvation from sin and death He offers by faith in Him (Rom 6:23).. IHS jim

[James Banta]

James is misquoting me again, I only stated that James got it wrong by quoting out of context, and failed to give the full context of what Brigham actually stated, which I believe James intentionally MISREPRESENTED our doctrine.

I believe that we obey all of Gods commandments, and when Joseph was required to take more then one wife, that it was a commandment from God.

You told me that you believed Young and a person must be a polygamist at least of the heart in order to gain exaltation.. That is what you said Young meant.. I disagreed but sweet wonderful man that you are decided that if I don't agree with you I am a liar.. This is your board Richard have at me... IHS jim

[James Banta]

I wouldn

[James Banta]

Yes, I agree. Salvation and exaltation are what separates Mormons from Christians. Salvation is one glory and exaltation is another. The first brings you into the kingdom of heaven as a child of God, the second progresses an individual in the priesthood and further into eternal marriage as an eternal pair made in the image of God.

Salvation in Christ is the promise given to all as a remedy for the fall of Adam. Exaltation is the fulfillment of the promise God gave to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his posterity. We in the LDS church are Jacob's posterity. The LDS hold the covenant given to Israel. Those in the covenant of salvation are the sons of Abraham, not the sons of Israel.

Mormons are generationally separated from Christians. Those LDS who receive a patriarchal blessing are most often named as the descendants of Ephraim or Manasseh. Our children are the fifth generation (spiritually speaking) from Abraham. Believers are made the sons of Abraham, one generation from the father of monotheism.

Acceptance into Israel is the same as acceptance into the LDS church. It is a progression that requires a proper baptism unto repentance by the authority of Christ's priesthood. It requires humility and submission to the lesser priesthood of Aaron, even as Christ submitted to being baptized by John.

There is so much more I could say, but for now I will end by clarifying that many Christians seem to equate exaltation with resurrection. This is not the case. All will be resurrected, some to glory, but others will be resurrected unto their own wickedness and eternal damnation. This has been made known by modern revelation from the BOM.

Exaltation is resurrection unto the covenant of eternal progression in Israel, while salvation is resurrection unto the removal of your sins through the Atonement of Christ.

One cannot be resurrected beyond their faith. If your faith is not unto eternal progression in eternal marriage toward obtaining His Godliness in the priesthood than you cannot obtain it, you cannot be exalted as a priest without entering into the covenant that establishes it. In the same way, if ones faith does not bring them to Christ, they cannot be saved.

If one thinks about it, prays about it, and reads about it in all of the scriptures with the faith that God speaks to those who believe, the Spirit will progress your faith and you too shall know, even as I do.

You said:

"Salvation in Christ is the promise given to all as a remedy for the fall of Adam"

Can you tell me if it is for ALL why is it that All have faith? For isn't that what the scripture say is the requirement?

Eph 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Saved then requires faith.. That doesn't sound like all to me.. Many refuse faith in Jesus..

This statement is really confusing..

"We in the LDS church are Jacob's posterity. The LDS hold the covenant given to Israel. Those in the covenant of salvation are the sons of Abraham, not the sons of Israel.

What does that mean you are the posterity of Jacob, but not children of Israel? IT'S THE SAME MAN! That is the kind of statement I face everyday when I share Jesus with LDS people I know.. It leaves me wondering if they know anything about the Bible at all.. But they say it's the word of God except when it isn't but have no idea where it isn't..

Five generations from Abraham? You are closer to him genealogically that Jesus is.. How can that be? This must be a spiritual belief given to you from a man again.. The Bible make no big deal to make.. Christians are all be children of the promise. Jesus is the Promise God gave to Abraham. You know that.. He is what the entire OT is about.. Well so is the NT.. All scripture centers in Jesus and on Jesus..

The Aaronic priesthood is not open to all.. It is reserved for Aaron and his son alone..If anyone says he holds that priesthood and can't prove His right to it by genealogy is considered unclean and it excluded from it.. I don't know of any man that can do this today.. There is no more Aaronic priesthood until God tells us who the High Priest and priests are.. Just as well because today there is no lawful Temple.. Tell me what was the duty of a priest.. I real priest a son of Aaron, not an LDS priest.. I can tell you in a word SACRIFICE. The priest stood between a sinner and God with the blood of a sacrifice to atone for the sin.. That is what Jesus did for us as out Melchizedek High Priest, that is what Aaron and his sons did for all Israel.. This is NOT what mormon priest and high priest do. They have changes the priesthood into an authority office and forgotten the blood!!

Christian in no way confess salvation with resurrection.. The Bible is clear

1 Cor 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But salvation requires faith

John 3:15-16

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That is a mighty difference.. One because Adam sinned throwing life away. Jesus gives resurrection to all men without satisfying any requirements, not of the Law, and not of Faith.. But to receive salvation faith is a requirement.. Surely you can see this.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Confused you with someone else. My bad.

But they quote the Bible and analyze it. You need to deal with their analysis.

They do not aspire to your theology. And if you are more worried about saving face with traditional orthodoxy, then you aren't really interested in research or discussion.

I'm asking you to look at what experts in the field have concluded based on an analysis of the text, language, and so forth. Until you can give a good reason for rejecting their conclusions, your posts are beyond worthless.

I do not need to deal with anyone interpretation unless I am talking to them.. I am NOT!.. But if they want to chat send them over and we can get into it... I do look at what the experts in the field say.. I listen to Matthew, Peter, and John.. Can't get much better experts than that.. I have given you reasons for not addressing their conclusions.. I have not read what they have to teach.. I haven't the time to do so.. IHS jim

[SearchDog]

You said: "Salvation in Christ is the promise given to all as a remedy for the fall of Adam" Can you tell me if it is for ALL why is it that All have faith? For isn't that what the scripture say is the requirement? Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Saved then requires faith.. That doesn't sound like all to me.. Many refuse faith in Jesus..

The key word is promise. Salvation is the promise given to all, not the surety of receiving it. Of course, faith is required.

[SearchDog]

This statement is really confusing.. "We in the LDS church are Jacob's posterity. The LDS hold the covenant given to Israel. Those in the covenant of salvation are the sons of Abraham, not the sons of Israel. What does that mean you are the posterity of Jacob, but not children of Israel?

[Please re-read my post because that is not what I said.]

If you don

[SearchDog]

Five generations from Abraham? You are closer to him genealogically that Jesus is.. How can that be? This must be a spiritual belief given to you from a man again.. The Bible make no big deal to make.. Christians are all be children of the promise. Jesus is the Promise God gave to Abraham. You know that.. He is what the entire OT is about.. Well so is the NT.. All scripture centers in Jesus and on Jesus..

Yes, spiritually speaking those in the LDS church are (for the most part) the descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. That means we are descendants of Abraham, through Isaac (1), through Jacob (2), through Joseph (3), through the sons of Joseph (4), unto a new generation in Christ (5). These are my spiritual fathers in Christ.

Who are your spiritual fathers? Where to you fit into Israel?

[SearchDog]

The Aaronic priesthood is not open to all.. It is reserved for Aaron and his son alone..If anyone says he holds that priesthood and can't prove His right to it by genealogy is considered unclean and it excluded from it.. I don't know of any man that can do this today.. There is no more Aaronic priesthood until God tells us who the High Priest and priests are.. Just as well because today there is no lawful Temple..

The Aaronic priesthood is open to all who take the oath and covenants of the priesthood.

Your statements are based in the Law of the OT. Christ fulfilled the Law. My claim on the Aaronic priesthood is based on revelation; my claim is a spiritual claim which is greater than a genealogical claim.

It is greater because if someone claims a genealogical link to Aaron they are entitled to the priesthood but they still have to accept the spiritual attributes of this priesthood in Christ.

[James Banta]

James is misquoting me again, I only stated that James got it wrong by quoting out of context, and failed to give the full context of what Brigham actually stated, which I believe James intentionally MISREPRESENTED our doctrine.

I believe that we obey all of Gods commandments, and when Joseph was required to take more then one wife, that it was a commandment from God.

Then quote it yourself I am NOT going to do your work for you.. There is no way I can stop you from saying what ever you want to say.. Just so everyone knows Richard has been calling me a liar for weeks.. Intentionally MISREPRESENTATION is lying.. Richard these are your people they know and understand LDS doctrine.. If I don't say it the way it is they will call me on it.. You keep trying but from the votes on this poll I see that most of the don't believe polygamy was, is, or ever will be a requirement for exaltation.. Not even being a polygamist of the heart only.. If that isn't your point please tell me again because that is what I have heard you saying since the first time you called me a liar... IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Please re-read my post because that is not what I said.]

If you don

[James Banta]

The Aaronic priesthood is open to all who take the oath and covenants of the priesthood.

Your statements are based in the Law of the OT. Christ fulfilled the Law. My claim on the Aaronic priesthood is based on revelation; my claim is a spiritual claim which is greater than a genealogical claim.

It is greater because if someone claims a genealogical link to Aaron they are entitled to the priesthood but they still have to accept the spiritual attributes of this priesthood in Christ.

If the Aaronic priesthood is open to all why did Ezra demand genealogy showing the proper linage. He said without that linage people were put from the priesthood as unclean?

Ezra 2:62

These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

The Priesthood of Aaron was a priesthood of the Old Testament.. In Hebrews we learn that it has been changed.. It is gone replaced by the Priesthood of Jesus.. He is taught by the writer to be the High Priest of the Melchizedek priesthood, believers are the priests offering the sacrifice of praise.. (Heb 7:12, Heb 3:1,Heb 13:15, Rev 5:10).. Yes you would have to claim revelation to bring back a OT priesthood and assign it to the church because the Bible is not quiet on the subject it is down right antagonistic. It would be saying just the opposite of what Hebrews teaches on the subject of priesthood..

Hey if you want to hold such doctrines as these, ok I would never say you have no right to do so but be honest about it and just say that the Bible is as corrupt as your historic leaders said it is and stop saying it's part of the standard works..

Orson Pratt said:

Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution. So as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original? (Orson Pratt's Works, 1891, page 218)

This is what I see mormons still saying in adding all the 'revelations' that are 180 degrees out of agreement with the Bible..

IHS jim

[James Banta]

I just reread my post above and it comes off pretty "stuck up". Sorry, I didn't intend it to be. I was just trying to explain some stuff that can be confusing to some not familiar with LDS teachings.

I know you really believe that the church is the real thing and you want ti support it.. The problem is that you MUST use modern revelation to do so.. It is NOT supportable from the Bible... IHS jim