Why So Little Scripture Since Joseph?

[stux]

But these works you cite were already in existence, maybe incomplete but in existence. Joseph was working on completing the JST but even without it we still have the Bible and enough to get some of the correct readings of scripture. Furthermore, we already had truths revealed which would put scriptures in correct context even without the clarity of the JST. The Book of Commandments was largely a gathering of the revelations at that time and except for some of the doctrinal revelations, ie on Priesthood, the New and Everlasting Covenant, and the church organizational structure, much of what is there is just additional enlightenment but not essential doctrine. Not only that, but many of our church scholars have had the opportunity to study the ancient languages and societies to give us a great deal more understanding and context for the Bible. We can read or hear their insights.

We do get this additional enlightenment and revelation today from the GA's, for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Look at the controversy those things bring up however, ie the Proclamation on the Family. These things may not be part of regular scripture study but they do give us additional guidance for living our lives.

Right. I can also name a number of other supposed records and scriptures to be in existence that have not been translated.

"even without it we still have the Bible and enough to get some of the correct readings of scripture. Furthermore, we already had truths revealed which would put scriptures in correct context even without the clarity of the JST."

My point exactly, which is why the excuse that all the scripture Joseph produced was needed to restore truth is shallow and lacking. Joseph translated and brought forth scripture not vital to the basic understanding of the restoration, but essential to the doctrine of the restoration itself, which one must wonder why none since his time. Insights and understandings are pretty much all we have received since Joseph. Scripture and pure revelation are at the bottom of the list of things the church has produced since Joseph smith.

"We do get this additional enlightenment and revelation today from the GA's, for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Look at the controversy those things bring up however, ie the Proclamation on the Family. These things may not be part of regular scripture study but they do give us additional guidance for living our lives

."

And as Sargon stated this is the kind of scripture and revelation that is not under observation. The enlightenment and revelation today from GA etc, is not comparable to the revelation and translation of scripture that Joseph received.

My statement is not passing judgement in any way upon the church, it is simply an observation that the kind of revelation and scripture Joseph provided the saints does not resemble the church provides now. The contrast after the death of Joseph is pretty clear. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see

[Sargon]

Your welcome, in future I will try to avoid posting in your threads, although I do not really know why you ask for people's thoughts if you really don't care.

Relax turbo. I care about people's thoughts much more when they are on topic.

[Calm]

It would seem to me pretty clear from the scriptures that not all prophets are called to the same identical calling, there are certain things that are consistent throughout such as calling to repentance, others are more uncommon. Moses was called to bring his people out of bondage, not so Jeremiah or Isaiah (IIRC one of them counseled the opposite, to not resist the overlordship of another nation).

I see no reason why all prophets would be given the work of translation that JS was called to do or the abridgment of records that Mormon was called to undertake or even recordkeeping of a particular type (there is no indication that the Lord condemned all the recordkeepers who wrote so little as not fulfilling that calling appropriately).

If this is the case, then we should patiently and prayerfully wait until the Lord sees fit to open ancient records up to us as a people again. At that time, he will call on the prophet to do so. Until then, we will need to rely on what we have already been given and other things we can learn through study (and that would include academic as well as spirtual) and personal revelation.

[Deborah]

The enlightenment and revelation today from GA etc, is not comparable to the revelation and translation of scripture that Joseph received.

I suppose it depends on what is meant by "comparable." Pres. Hinckley's revelation on the smaller temples has been pretty revolutionary, even though you may not see it that way.

I see no reason why all prophets would be given the work of translation that JS was called to do or the abridgment of records that Mormon was called to undertake or even recordkeeping of a particular type (there is no indication that the Lord condemned all the recordkeepers who wrote so little as not fulfilling that calling appropriately).

I agree, but the anti-Mo's don't get the fact that each prophet has his calling and his particular gifts. Joseph Smith was the prophet of the last dispensation. As such his calling was significantly different from all those who carried on after him. BY did not have the gifts, nor the responsibility of translation, but he led the saints west and founded a great territory and began the establishment of the church in a permanent base, a very significant responsibility. And so on....

[lostindc]

I would love to see the leaders sit down and incorporate all proclaimations as additions to D&C.

I wanted to add that about 11 months ago I had the chance to meet with President Tingey and we spoke on this very subject. He stated that D&C could go on and on with new revelations. He listed a few from President Hinkley such as small Temples and now having the First Presidency and the 12 deliver Stake Conference addresses (and other similar types of meetings) via video and that the spirit would not be hindered.

I thought it was interesting and I think these revelations would have a great impact if they were added to D&C.

[cinepro]

I would guess that the "Proclamation on the Family" will one day replace section 132.

[stux]

It would seem to me pretty clear from the scriptures that not all prophets are called to the same identical calling, there are certain things that are consistent throughout such as calling to repentance, others are more uncommon. Moses was called to bring his people out of bondage, not so Jeremiah or Isaiah (IIRC one of them counseled the opposite, to not resist the overlordship of another nation).

I see no reason why all prophets would be given the work of translation that JS was called to do or the abridgment of records that Mormon was called to undertake or even recordkeeping of a particular type (there is no indication that the Lord condemned all the recordkeepers who wrote so little as not fulfilling that calling appropriately).

If this is the case, then we should patiently and prayerfully wait until the Lord sees fit to open ancient records up to us as a people again. At that time, he will call on the prophet to do so. Until then, we will need to rely on what we have already been given and other things we can learn through study (and that would include academic as well as spirtual) and personal revelation.

I agree that this is a realistic and logical conclusion. What I do not agree with is statements by others that there has been no difference in terms of scripture and revelation after Joseph and that general conferences and ensigns are comparable to the Doctrine and Covenants, revelation etc. Obviously I have noted that there have been cases for "revelation" since Joseph, but in all honesty it is at the very bottom of the list of things the prophets have done since Joseph. I have my own issues that I wont bring up, but I think its clear there is a vast contrast from the type of prophet Joseph was to all the rest and that the chasm grew even greater with time. One could even say thats why we have had almost no new scripture revealed since Joseph.

[O-Brother]

Sometimes LDS members are troubled by the fact that very little scripture has been produced since Joseph. We only have a few instances after Joseph in which a section is added to the D&C or a manifesto is appended and those are few and far between.

Why is that?

Perhaps Jarom (yes, the guy who wrote only one chapter) from the Book of Mormon can provide us with a clue as to why.

Then, in the next book, Omni, more then 200 years pass by with hardly a thing written down! Sometimes there just isn't much to say. Sometimes all the important stuff has already been said.

Your thoughts?

We can barely handle what we have, imagine getting more. What could possibly be said in new scriptures? The world will end in 2012, 2022, or 2052. The economy will collapse, millions will die of mutated swine flu or churches will be persecuted. Gog and Maggog or Armaggedon is coming and Russia and Iran will pair up and attack Israel. Venezuela will fall apart in 3 years. China will turn on us and fight us with an army of millions of men? Marshall law coming. Constitution hanging by a thread, etc. That all sounds Nostradamusish, I mean, I think we have plenty of scriptures to ponder already and the Lord has already revealed what He wants us to be engaged in. We have a Prophet kindly asking us to be nice and to love one another.

I think that personal revelation is on-going at all levels to saints and others all over the world. The Church cannot exist without daily personal revelation. "it occurred to me then that this Church could not function for even one day without the spirit of prophecy and revelation." Elder L. Aldin Porter, Seventy, Ensign, Nov 1996.

I presume that writing scripture must be a special task and gift for someone very special, a Prophet, like Joseph Smith Jr. All scripture that ends with "thus saith the Lord" is critical to our destinies and the entire Church and world. I doubt that we will have any new official scriptures like D&C, Bible, Perl Of Great Price or the Book Of Mormon. There's enough already to cover many generations to come. And they have.

[stux]

We can barely handle what we have, imagine getting more. What could possibly be said in new scriptures? The world will end in 2012, 2022, or 2052. The economy will collapse, millions will die of mutated swine flu or churches will be persecuted. Gog and Maggog or Armaggedon is coming and Russia and Iran will pair up and attack Israel. Venezuela will fall apart in 3 years. China will turn on us and fight us with an army of millions of men? Marshall law coming. Constitution hanging by a thread, etc. That all sounds Nostradamusish, I mean, I think we have plenty of scriptures to ponder already and the Lord has already revealed what He wants us to be engaged in. We have a Prophet kindly asking us to be nice and to love one another.

I think that personal revelation is on-going at all levels to saints and others all over the world. The Church cannot exist without daily personal revelation. "it occurred to me then that this Church could not function for even one day without the spirit of prophecy and revelation." Elder L. Aldin Porter, Seventy, Ensign, Nov 1996.

I presume that writing scripture must be a special task and gift for someone very special, a Prophet, like Joseph Smith Jr. All scripture that ends with "thus saith the Lord" is critical to our destinies and the entire Church and world. I doubt that we will have any new official scriptures like D&C, Bible, Perl Of Great Price or the Book Of Mormon. There's enough already to cover many generations to come. And they have.

If you're thinking that more scripture will just provide prophecy and not eternal truths you're sorely mistaken. "What could possibly be said in new scriptures?" The words a bible a bible, come to mind. If one takes the prophecies and teachings to be true regarding revelation and scripture there are so many more eternal truths and principles to be learned that we can never have enough scripture or revelation.

Joseph Smith's statement regarding heaven and the degrees of glory should be enough to let you realize that we have but a very very small portion of eternal truths. Anyway I will again concede that there has not been a prophet like Joseph and that could be a reason why there has also been so little scripture since.

[O-Brother]

If you're thinking that more scripture will just provide prophecy and not eternal truths you're sorely mistaken. "What could possibly be said in new scriptures?" The words a bible a bible, come to mind. If one takes the prophecies and teachings to be true regarding revelation and scripture there are so many more eternal truths and principles to be learned that we can never have enough scripture or revelation.

Joseph Smith's statement regarding heaven and the degrees of glory should be enough to let you realize that we have but a very very small portion of eternal truths. Anyway I will again concede that there has not been a prophet like Joseph and that could be a reason why there has also been so little scripture since.

I believe I said there is continuing revelation going on all the time but not new scriptures. There have been plenty of teachings through

talks and magazine articles. To my knowledge we haven't had any new official scriptures. There have been many predictions and advice from modern Church leaders. Here's one that I think matches what's been going on in this country.

I wouldn't consider former Prophet Ezra Taft Benson to be making prophecy in this video because his statements reflected the predictions and feelings of many righteous men and women of his time but Elder Benson was so right about the things he had the courage to say back then. He was receiving revelation because everything he mentioned in that talk has been happening. But who can deny that America has changed for the worse, just like he said? Do we have any new scripture that reflects what might be in store for us and the world in the near future? No, but we have plenty of advice from our leaders to be prepared. No new Scripture. Many revelations. Revelations usually come in the form of advice to members as well as what direction the Church should take.

[cinepro]

We can barely handle what we have, imagine getting more. What could possibly be said in new scriptures?

I think that personal revelation is on-going at all levels to saints and others all over the world. The Church cannot exist without daily personal revelation. "it occurred to me then that this Church could not function for even one day without the spirit of prophecy and revelation." Elder L. Aldin Porter, Seventy, Ensign, Nov 1996.

I presume that writing scripture must be a special task and gift for someone very special, a Prophet, like Joseph Smith Jr. All scripture that ends with "thus saith the Lord" is critical to our destinies and the entire Church and world. I doubt that we will have any new official scriptures like D&C, Bible, Perl Of Great Price or the Book Of Mormon. There's enough already to cover many generations to come. And they have.

At least now I can better understand why some Christians are perfectly happy with just the Bible, and are hesitant to accept LDS claims for additional scripture.

[O-Brother]

At least now I can better understand why some Christians are perfectly happy with just the Bible, and are hesitant to accept LDS claims for additional scripture.

We don't have additional scripture ourselves, past D&C, BOM and Perl of Great Price. Are we perfectly content with the standard works? I'd say yes. By this logic, we'd be just like the Christians you're alluding to. The way I see it, they have plenty to read and so do we. We just have more to read. However, all churches have plenty of writings, books and written/spoke advice. Educational programs, seminaries, magazines, ads, etc. Those aren't scriptures, but overall, they contribute to the betterment of the flock. Muslims have no new scriptures. Neither do Catholics. Jews?! Yet, all religions have had revelations and inspiration. Maybe in two generations, when this land and world has changed, The Lord might speak through his Prophet again and provide new, formal scriptures like he did through Joseph Smith. Consider Brigham Young, for example. He has a huge collection of teachings and writings, but which ones can we consider "scripture?" Some of his teaching and personal opinions could be misconstrued if seen as "scripture" and many already have. Scriptures outlive Prophets by generations and scritpures are rare. As you know, the Bible is scripture, the BOM is scripture, PGP, D&C. The Ensign, on the other hand, is not scripture. It's a magazine. It reflects the will of the Lord, provides inspirational stories, information about cultures and testimonies, but it's not formal scripture. Manuals aren't scripture.

Only the Prophet can write scripture for the Church. Others can write about revelations, inspire, edify and promote faith. That's why many leaders write inspiring books. Those books aren't scripture. That's why Joseph Smith is so special, because he actually wrote scripture. A better way to say this is: he was given scripture. I'm amazed at how he translated the BOM. But not only that, D&C alone is amazing.

[stux]

We don't have additional scripture ourselves, past D&C, BOM and Perl of Great Price. Are we perfectly content with the standard works? I'd say yes. By this logic, we'd be just like the Christians you're alluding to. The way I see it, they have plenty to read and so do we. We just have more to read. However, all churches have plenty of writings, books and written/spoke advice. Educational programs, seminaries, magazines, ads, etc. Those aren't scriptures, but overall, they contribute to the betterment of the flock. Muslims have no new scriptures. Neither do Catholics. Jews?! Yet, all religions have had revelations and inspiration. Maybe in two generations, when this land and world has changed, The Lord might speak through his Prophet again and provide new, formal scriptures like he did through Joseph Smith. Consider Brigham Young, for example. He has a huge collection of teachings and writings, but which ones can we consider "scripture?" Some of his teaching and personal opinions could be misconstrued if seen as "scripture" and many already have. Scriptures outlive Prophets by generations and scritpures are rare. As you know, the Bible is scripture, the BOM is scripture, PGP, D&C. The Ensign, on the other hand, is not scripture. It's a magazine. It reflects the will of the Lord, provides inspirational stories, information about cultures and testimonies, but it's not formal scripture. Manuals aren't scripture.

Only the Prophet can write scripture for the Church. Others can write about revelations, inspire, edify and promote faith. That's why many leaders write inspiring books. Those books aren't scripture. That's why Joseph Smith is so special, because he actually wrote scripture. A better way to say this is: he was given scripture. I'm amazed at how he translated the BOM. But not only that, D&C alone is amazing.

As amazing as you think, they also teach of scripture more amazing and richer in eternal truths to come forth. conference addresses, teachings are nice, but they are not canonized scripture nor revelations given in a similar context as were Josephs. Your attitude resembles "we have so much and its so great, we really don't have a need for more." Thats fine, but its certainly not consistent with LDS teachings and expectations. - A bible a bible, we have a bible and we need no more bible - Just sayn

[notHagoth7]

...I doubt that we will have any new official scriptures like D&C, Bible, Perl Of Great Price or the Book Of Mormon. There's enough already to cover many generations to come...

Perhaps I'm reading your meaning wrong. But it would appear that we currently read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and articles of faith from quite different perspectives. Those items all suggest to me that there is much more out there for the taking/asking. Either in the here and now or in the near future.

However, whether any such things will ever become "official" or not, remains to be seen. For a number of reasons, I'm guessing we'll see little if any of such things become canonized - but I'm certainly more than willing to be wrong about that.

[Tchild2]

Sometimes LDS members are troubled by the fact that very little scripture has been produced since Joseph. We only have a few instances after Joseph in which a section is added to the D&C or a manifesto is appended and those are few and far between.

Why is that?

Perhaps Jarom (yes, the guy who wrote only one chapter) from the Book of Mormon can provide us with a clue as to why.

Then, in the next book, Omni, more then 200 years pass by with hardly a thing written down! Sometimes there just isn't much to say. Sometimes all the important stuff has already been said.

Your thoughts?

Are you satisfied with the amount of addtional revelation that is forthcoming Sargon? Why was God interested in certain person serving missions, selling farms and the other inconsequential revelations as found in the Doctrine and Covenants, but is absolutely mute as pertaining to the state of world affairs today?

What does God think about cloning, stem cell research, nuclear proliferation, same sex marriage (besides what 80 year old suits at 50 N. temple opine), overpopulation, resource depletion, global warming, etc etc??

God took the time to tell joe sixpack to sell his farm, but now cannot be bothered to opine on world affairs affecting billions?

[Flyonthewall]

It would seem to me pretty clear from the scriptures that not all prophets are called to the same identical calling, there are certain things that are consistent throughout such as calling to repentance, others are more uncommon. Moses was called to bring his people out of bondage, not so Jeremiah or Isaiah (IIRC one of them counseled the opposite, to not resist the overlordship of another nation).

I see no reason why all prophets would be given the work of translation that JS was called to do or the abridgment of records that Mormon was called to undertake or even recordkeeping of a particular type (there is no indication that the Lord condemned all the recordkeepers who wrote so little as not fulfilling that calling appropriately).

If this is the case, then we should patiently and prayerfully wait until the Lord sees fit to open ancient records up to us as a people again. At that time, he will call on the prophet to do so. Until then, we will need to rely on what we have already been given and other things we can learn through study (and that would include academic as well as spirtual) and personal revelation.

I think this is it...It was Joseph's calling to restore what was lost. Once Joseph's mission was complete, he was taken, and those that followed were to solidify and continue in the restored gospel. I would guess that each prophet afterwards, had their own purpose, or area that they strengthened.

[Deborah]

Why was God interested in certain person serving missions, selling farms and the other inconsequential revelations as found in the Doctrine and Covenants, but is absolutely mute as pertaining to the state of world affairs today?

What makes you think God is mute on world affairs. Was the church mute on Prop 8? Is the church mute on abortion? The church is not mute when it comes to moral issues. Some of the concerns today are political and the Brethern have admonished us time and again to look for good people of integrity to hold office and support such persons so that these issues will dealt be with correctly.

Furthermore, I know that church leadership, at the head and down to our local wards and stakes receive information to help us deal with many of the pressing issues. I think as the church has grown and spread out more and more revelation is given to the local stake presidents to deal with the issues in their area.

What critics don't understand is though we may not have additions to the canon that does not mean that revelation has ceased and it is recorded but not always available to the general membership.