Song of Solomon = "Biblical Trash"?

[Jason]

Ecclesiastes 8:15 "Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun."

Do you know what the phrase "Under the Sun" means in the context of Ecclesiastes?

[David Bokovoy]

As for Ecclessiastes, the point comes at the end: the meaning of life is to fear God and obey his commands. That book is perhaps the best example of narrative preaching in the Bible.

The later editorial insertion at the conclusion of the book is an attempt by a Jewish redactor to spin the book's pessimistic eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die message into a spiritual account. The insertion, however, does not alter the book's fundamental worldly agenda.

[Cold Steel]

When I hear Christian commentators talk about how it represents Jesus' love for the church, I begin choking and have to leave the room. To the pure, all things are pure up to a point. Then it's just plain ridiculous. But if the Bible is the COMPLETE, INERRANT word or God, I guess you really have to use your imagination.

[Ron Beron]

The later editorial insertion at the conclusion of the book is an attempt by a Jewish redactor to spin the book's pessimistic eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die message into a spiritual account. The insertion, however, does not alter the book's fundamental worldly agenda.

I am struck not by the obvious worldliness of Ecclesiastes, but by its cynicism. He describes the futilities of life which one receives through self-gratification. At least this I can appreciate, but later he goes on to disparage any hope of post-existence

"9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward â?? and even the memory of them disappears. 9:6 What they loved, as well as what they hated and envied, perished long ago, and they no longer have a part in anything that happens on earth."

What ultimately saves it for me is the following quote...

9:7 Go, eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, because God has already approved your works.

9:8 Let your clothes always be white, and do not spare precious ointment on your head.

9:9 Enjoy life with your beloved wife during all the days of your fleeting life that God has given you on earth during all your fleeting days; for that is your reward in life and in your burdensome work on earth.

9:10 Whatever you find to do with your hands, do it with all your might,

I love this stuff...Enjoy life, enjoy work that you do well and like and enjoy it all with a woman you love! Much better than the rampant eroticism of SoS.

[Stargazer]

I don't believe the Song of Solomon is an inspired book; and I have my doubts about the book of Ecclesiastes too.

zerinus

Agree on SoS. Not so agreed on Ecclesiastes. After all, it inspired the song "Turn, Turn, Turn" by The Byrds, and that was a good thing.

[kamenraider]

Well, it is Near Eastern pornography.

...

It's kind of funny to think that while the Church is denouncing modern pornography, it's publishing and distributing ancient Near Eastern pornography.

[e=mc2]

Not nearly as depressing as reading about gang rapes and fornication, i.e. the focus of the Song of Solomon. I also agree that the book of Ecclesiastes is not inspired with its theme "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die."

Wait a sec......... that is not THE theme of the Song of Songs........Me thinks you overstate this a bit.....

[volgadon]

Not rape, no, but illicit sexual liasons are.

[zerinus]

Do you know what the phrase "Under the Sun" means in the context of Ecclesiastes?

What do you think it means?

zerinus

[zerinus]

It's kind of funny to think that while the Church is denouncing modern pornography, it's publishing and distributing ancient Near Eastern pornography.

The Song of Solomon is just a love song. It is not about illicit sex. And interestingly, expressions from it has been incorporated into modern scripture:

Song of Solomon 6:4

â??Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely

as Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners

.â?

Song of Solomon 6:10

â??Who is she that looketh forth as the morning,

fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?

â?

D&C 5:14

â??And to none else will I grant this power, to receive this same testimony among this generation, in this the beginning of the rising up and the coming forth of my church out of the wildernessâ??

clear as the moon, and fair as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners

.â?

D&C109:73

â??That thy church may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth

fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;

â?

This, however, does not necessarily lend scriptural legitimacy to the Song of Solomon. Those are merely expressions from ancient classical Hebrew literature. In classical literature, especially of the poetic type, certain expressions gain currency and become commonplace, in good as well as bad literature. Those are probably expressions that had become common in classical Hebrew literature (including scriptural literature); but enough of them has not survived for us to be able to see the pattern of occurrence. The Lord is using them because they were common Hebrew literary expressions; not in order to lend legitimacy to the Song of Solomon as a book of scripture.

zerinus

[volgadon]

It is a love song between two young. unwed lovers engaging in illicit sexual liasions. Were they wed, then they would not have to sneak around vineyards and they would be living together, not making midnight rendezvous in each other's home.

[katherine the great]

It is a love song between two young. unwed lovers engaging in illicit sexual liasions. Were they wed, then they would not have to sneak around vineyards and they would be living together, not making midnight rendezvous in each other's home.

If she was one of many wives, maybe it just wasn't her "night" and they did need to sneak around. Doesn't the text specifically refer to her as his "wife" or is that a mistranslation?

[prisonchaplain]

You use the term fear God. In our theology that actually means respect or revere. We fear God in the sense that we fear and tremble at the thought of facing Him in our unclean or unholy state. What does your church teach?

Amen to what you said. I don't even see a difference in nuance.

[Anijen]

Here is what BRM actually said:

We must be thinking of a two different times he used the same talk then. Because that's not how I remember it. but I'm getting senile....

[Brade]

I don't see what the big deal is. The scriptures are loaded with lots of uninspiring and uninspired things. The SOS may not be inspired but if what some people have said in this thread is right, it's not uninspiring.

[volgadon]

If she was one of many wives, maybe it just wasn't her "night" and they did need to sneak around. Doesn't the text specifically refer to her as his "wife" or is that a mistranslation?

The text also refers to her as his sister. Going with the contextm bride means either just a lover, or a fiancee engaging in sexual relations before the wedding.