Definition of "anti-Mormon"

[rhinomelon]

Okay, a spinoff of another thread. I've been thinking for a while that it would be nice to have a normative definition of "anti-Mormon" that we could use around the boards here. That way, if someone called me an "anti-Mormon" I could say, "Well, according to the board definition you are absolutely right/wrong!" And we could all go about our business.

So for this poll, please share any additional thoughts you may have. And remember, this is YOUR definition, not what you think most other people would say. How do you define it, personally? What kinds of images does the term evoke?

Perhaps we could all agree on a working definition, if only for the boards here. It would help me sleep better at night knowing I had been placed in a nice, cozy box (whatever that box happens to be, I'm not picky!)

Take care, everyone

[structurecop]

I think a lot of the use of the term "anti-Mormon" comes from the common membership who is unused to engaging in dialogue about sensitive issues. Thus, when they are challenged with information they aren't familiar with or with something that sounds antagonistic towards "the Church," they label it anti-Mormon. Thus people like myself are often accused of being "antis." I think generally, more seasoned posters here are less likely to superfluously label others as anti-Mormons.

[RalphHolb]

To me, an anti-Mormon is someone who outright mocks the LDS church beliefs, practices and history without any care as to how it is perceived by a member of TCoJCoLDS.

Someone who simply disagrees with me (a Mormon) is not considered an anti-Mormon by my standards. Those who are condescending or outright vicious in their attacks does meet my qualifications for the label of anti-Mormon.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I choose first definition (or longest definition) Ed Decker and those who mock. BTW, I have never seen anyone here refer to you as anti. Billy, no doubt, Hoops, dancing on the edge.

[LeSellers]

please share any additional thoughts you may have. And remember, this is YOUR definition, not what you think most other people would say. How do you define it, personally? What kinds of images does the term evoke?

it's obvious that #1 would be an anti-Mormon, but that is too restrictive in my view. I chose #3, which includes #1.

I had to choose "Other" in the second part because I would include #1. #3, & #4. Not because the minister would be proselyting LDSs for his own congregation, but because, in my experience, those who do typically spend a lot of time being #1 in the first part. They often lie (or, at a minimum, repeat lies, distortions, and fabrications gleaned from sources like The Godmakers and other dastardly publications) and misrepresent LDS teachings by presenting them without any context.

I chose mocking LDS beliefs, targeting LDSs for proselyting, and teaching others about LDS beliefs while not a Saint himself. They are so intertwined that I find them inseparable in most "Ministries to Mormons". I have so rarely seen any non-LDS missionary talk about LDS beliefs, practices, etc., without mocking and distorting them, and using that false representation as the key to their attack.

Lehi

[SilverKnight]

First off Rhino, I don't think anyone around here would call you an anti-mormon.

Second, anti-mormon is not so hard to define, I was thinking of creating an antimormon 'matrix' as you get further down the list of questions, the more 'anti-mormon' you get. This set of questions is more for Christian critics than secular critics.

NOT ANTIMORMON

1. Do you reject the claim that the LDS church is the restored gospel of Jesus Christ?

2. Do you believe LDS members falsely call themselves Christians?

3. Do you believe the LDS Church falsely calls itself a Christian church?

4. Do you believe the LDS church leads people away from '"the real" gospel of Jesus Christ?

5. Do you spend more time refuting the claims of the LDS church than you do other "false" religions?

6. Do you spend more time attacking/exposing mormonism than you do worshipping at your own church?

7. Do you receive income from your efforts in attacking/exposing the LDS church?

8. Do you believe good people who follow LDS theology will go to hell?

9. Do you believe the LDS church is an evil organization, perhaps even a Satanic one?

10. Do you wish for the destruction of the LDS church?

DEFINITELY ANTIMORMON

I would say 5 or more 'Yes' answers means you are an antimormon.

[structurecop]

2. Do you consider LDS members Christians?

DEFINITELY ANTIMORMON

I would say 5 or more 'Yes' answers means you are an antimormon.

So a Yes to this means you are on the path to extreme anti-Mormonism?

[SilverKnight]

So a Yes to this means you are on the path to extreme anti-Mormonism?

EDITED

Thanks for catching that SC.

[BCSpace]

I typically define an antiMormon as one who lies, uses yellow journalism, or negatively sensationalizes about the Church. I have expanded that to include members of the Church in any standing who are in opposition to significant doctrines or policies of the Church and use their "good standing" or TR as justification for their "rightness" of being in opposition.

[Bsix]

I get the sense that we are defining "antiMormon" by means of its perjorative value...not as an expression of opposition to the LDS Church on any level.

Take two people...both are completely opposed to Mormonism., They consider Mormonism to be false and unChristian. They have a desire to target and proslyte to Mormons and bring them out of the Church. They participate in LDS message boards in opposition to Mormonism.They tend to support the use of debunking witnessing approaches as a reasonable approach to bringing Mormons out of the faith.

One uses opposes Mormonism in a manner that is laid back, non-confrontational, very pleasant, and non insulting.

The other is aggressive, confrontational, abrasive, and mocking.

Which one is antiMormon? Both oppose the Church to the same degree. The only thing that seperates them is the style and approach.

This is why I take the position (a minority view) that oppostion to the LDS Church is antiMormonism. The manner and spirit with which the opposition is done is simply style.

I love Rhino. As nice and gentle as the day is long. He is a pleasure to exchange ideas with. However, based on his many posts on this MORMON message board...I know that he is opposed to Mormonism. He witnesses his faith to Mormons and hopes to convert them. He is supportive of apologetic approaches that attempt to counter and debunk LDS teachings. Rhino is not a typical Evangelical, he has some degree of focus on the subject of Mormonism. As such, I would put him in the 'antiMormon' category.

Now, because of some of the truely offensive antiMormons out there...calling Rhino an antiMormon has an unintended negative and perjorative effect. Rhino is not in the same crassness league as the offensive antiMormons in regards to style. He is in the same camp in terms of his philosophical opposition to Mormonism.

I think we are better served by identifying those who work in opposition to Mormonism as antiMormons...and do more to recognize the differences between the degrees of style of antiMormonism.

When I sugest that someone like Rhino is 'antiMormon' I am categorizing his opposition to Mormonism...not making a statement about his personality or his approach.

Regards,

Six

[structurecop]

I have expanded that to include members of the Church in any standing who are in opposition to significant doctrines or policies of the Church and use their "good standing" or TR as justification for their "rightness" of being in opposition.

Does that include George Romney and Lester Bush?

[blueadept]

I chose mocking LDS beliefs, targeting LDSs for proselyting, and teaching others about LDS beliefs while not a Saint himself. They are so intertwined that I find them inseparable in most "Ministries to Mormons". I have so rarely seen any non-LDS missionary talk about LDS beliefs, practices, etc., without mocking and distorting them, and using that false representation as the key to their attack.

Thanks for the insight. Even though I'm not a member, I seem to always correcting other non-members about my wife's faith. I had a good Catholic friend suggest I read the Godmakers and I pointed out how the author had a major axe-to-grind with the LDS faith and I prefered not using this type of source. He then checked it out and said I had a valid point. I admit that I don't go out of my way to glorify the LDS faith but I try to use reasonable LDS sources to explain it while agreeing to disagree with LDS viewpoint.

[BCSpace]

I have expanded that to include members of the Church in any standing who are in opposition to significant doctrines or policies of the Church and use their "good standing" or TR as justification for their "rightness" of being in opposition.

Does that include George Romney and Lester Bush?

What significant doctrines or policies are they in opposition to?

[oats]

What behavior makes one an "anti-Mormon"? (Choose as many as you think apply)

I chose Mocking LDS belief/practice. But I think there is an important option left out. I think you know, rhino, that the LDS get perturbed more at distortions meant to turn people away from Mormonism. Most of the noticeable 'antis' fall under the category that is '... related activities which promote intolerance against the restored Church of Jesus Christ or its leadership and members.'

None of last options, save mocking, seek to elaborate on the promotion of intolerance.

'Antis' typically flaunt and distort to their agenda's advantage any historical event related to the church that will close the minds of a culture and prevent them from listening. This could be called agenda driven misrepresentation or manipulation. And I would not ever attempt to sugarcoat those as:

Publicly disagreeing with LDS doctrine/practice

Teaching others about LDS doctrine/practice even though one is not a member

Specifically targeting LDS people for missionary efforts

[Ray Agostini]

One uses opposes Mormonism in a manner that is laid back, non-confrontational, very pleasant, and non insulting.

The other is aggressive, confrontational, abrasive, and mocking.

Which one is antiMormon? Both oppose the Church to the same degree. The only thing that seperates them is the style and approach.

This is why I take the position (a minority view) that oppostion to the LDS Church is antiMormonism. The manner and spirit with which the opposition is done is simply style.

Your black and white thinking has never surprised me once I discovered it.

Criticism of Mormonism = Anti-Mormon.

[structurecop]

What significant doctrines or policies are they in opposition to?

They were in opposition to the Priesthood Ban. Which, by your logic, would have made them anti-Mormons prior to 1978.

[Ray Agostini]

They were in opposition to the Priesthood Ban. Which, by your logic, would have made them anti-Mormons prior to 1978.

So was Hugh B. Brown, but he comes under BSix's "polite anti-Mormons".

[BCSpace]

What significant doctrines or policies are they in opposition to?

They were in opposition to the Priesthood Ban. Which, by your logic, would have made them anti-Mormons prior to 1978.

That is correct. I stand by my statement.

[T-Shirt]

There is a difference between being opposed to something and disagreeing with something. Anyone who opposes the Church is Anti-Mormon, but those who disagree, are not. For example, I am opposed to abortion (except in very rare circumstances), which makes me anti-abortion. However, I only disagree with many protestant doctrines, I do not oppose them.

To oppose means:

1. to act against or provide resistance to; combat.

2. to stand in the way of; hinder; obstruct.

3. to set as an opponent or adversary.

4. to be hostile or adverse to, as in opinion: to oppose a resolution in a debate.

5. to set as an obstacle or hindrance.

One can proselyte Mormons, debate Mormons, disagree with Mormons and, possibly, even dislike Mormons without being anti-Mormon, but if they oppose them, as defined above, then I would consider them anti-Mormon.

Best,

T-Shirt

[BCSpace]

There is a difference between being opposed to something and disagreeing with something. Anyone who opposes the Church is Anti-Mormon, but those who disagree, are not.

I like this distinction. However, I quantify it with action. So for example, if one were to vote against the recent CA Prop 8, one is actively opposing the Church as opposed to merely disagreeing with it.

[jwhitlock]

Good luck getting all the members of the Church to agree on the definition. It's not going to happen.

I, for one, use the term anti-Mormon in a purely pejorative sense. From my viewpoint, it's reserved for those who really deserve it.

[Hoops22]

Hoops, dancing on the edge.

But, oh so graceful, so fluid.

[mysteryman]

Okay, a spinoff of another thread. I've been thinking for a while that it would be nice to have a normative definition of "anti-Mormon" that we could use around the boards here. That way, if someone called me an "anti-Mormon" I could say, "Well, according to the board definition you are absolutely right/wrong!" And we could all go about our business.

So for this poll, please share any additional thoughts you may have. And remember, this is YOUR definition, not what you think most other people would say. How do you define it, personally? What kinds of images does the term evoke?

Perhaps we could all agree on a working definition, if only for the boards here. It would help me sleep better at night knowing I had been placed in a nice, cozy box (whatever that box happens to be, I'm not picky!)

Take care, everyone

Always an interesting subject. But we will never reach a normative definition. Several years ago at Sunstone this was discussed and I believe Van Hale gave the best definition, that it is someone who is actively trying to destroy the church and convert members away from it. Certainly someone could fine issues with this definition, but it is the best I have heard. Simply disagreeing privately or publicly and even publishing criticisms of the church I do not believe makes you anti-Mormon any more than publicly criticizing American politicians or the U.S. government and policy automatically make a person anti-American. But actively trying to bring the country down would qualify one as anti-American.

[Chris Smith]

Mocking LDS doctrine/practice

Quite a few voted for this, but I wonder how many really thought about it. I know a number of Mormons who find things about LDS doctrine and practice sufficiently funny to make fun of them. (And I'm not just talking about green jello.) I also know quite a few non-Mormons who in appropriate company would make fun of Mormonism, but whom I wouldn't consider anti-Mormon. Does cracking Mormon jokes really "make one anti-Mormon"?

Food for thought.

Best,

-Chris

[LifeOnaPlate]

Here are a few discussions on the topic from around the Bloggernacle:

Dave Banack, "Defining 'Anti-Mormon'," Dave's Mormon Inquiry, January 5, 2006.

J. Nelson-Seawright, "Six Anti-Mormonisms," By Common Consent, November 29, 2006.

Kent Larsen, "The Anti-Mormon Label," Times & Seasons, March 17, 2009.