PrettyNewMommy Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Are there two Unforgivable Sins?-Murder and denying the Holy Ghost? I'm not sure if that is correct.If so-Have our leaders ever justified Murder in the name of the Lord?-Like Lying in the Name of the Lord?Denying Holy Ghost?-It seems very broad. Does the Church consider members that brake away or leave to have committed an unforgivable sin? What do they mean by denying the Holy Ghost?-I'm new, so if this thread is already going-let me know.
SilverKnight Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Are there two Unforgivable Sins?-Murder and denying the Holy Ghost? I'm not sure if that is correct.If so-Have our leaders ever justified Murder in the name of the Lord?-Like Lying in the Name of the Lord?Denying Holy Ghost?-It seems very broad. Does the Church consider members that brake away or leave to have committed an unforgivable sin? What do they mean by denying the Holy Ghost?-I'm new, so if this thread is already going-let me know.One unforgiveable sin: Denying the holy ghost - an act which presumably few people on earth are even capable of committing. To do so, you must have a perfect knowledge of Christ's divinity then willfully deny it. LDS Theologians speculate that Judas Iscariot wasn't even capable of committing this act.Denying the Holy Ghost is certainly not having some spiritual witness then ignoring it. You'll find this misconception in the church from time to time.Murder in the name of the Lord?I think that's called religion.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 'The shedding of innocent blood' and the 'sin against the Holy Ghost' are both unforgivable, but they are only one sin.This is because the shedding of innocent blood that is being spoken of using that term, is Christ's blood. The Student manual for the Doctrine and Covenants institute class speaks more about this-"D&C 132:27. What Is â??Innocent Bloodâ??Innocent blood has a more specific meaning in thisverse than it does in normal usage. Ultimately, as Elder Bruce R. McConkie pointed out, the only truly innocent blood is that of the Savior: â??The innocent blood is that of Christ; and those who commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is the unpardonable sin (Matt. 12:31â??32), thereby â??crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.â?? (Heb. 6:6.) They are, in other words, people who would have crucified Christ, having the while a perfect knowledge that he was the Son of God.â? (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:345.) Other scriptures teach that those who martyr the Lordâ??s servants are also shedding innocent blood(see Mosiah 17:10; D&C 135:4; see also President Joseph Fielding Smithâ??s statement in Notes andCommentary on D&C 76:35). In other words, thosewho fight against the prophets are in reality fighting against Him whom the prophets serve. Thus, while murder of any kind is an extremely serious sin, not all who murder are guilty of shedding â??innocent blood,â? thereby becoming sons of perdition."Hope that helps a bit.
cjwright Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 There is only one unforgivable sin, that is to deny the Holy Ghost. This isn't a LDS only idea, it is based in scripture:Matthew 12:31+32Mark 3:29Luke 12:10Hebrews 6:4-6Hebrews 10:26 2 Nephi 31:14Alma 39:6 In Matthew B. Brown's book - The Plan of Salvation, he gives a good description of how much you must have accepted the Gospel and performed all the Temple ordinances and then denied everything you said was true.
Jason Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 You can't murder in the name of the Lord. Murder is by definition wrong.Nephi didn't murder Laban, he killed him.
Jeff K. Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I missed my wife's and my anniversary once. I think that came close.
annewandering Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Are there two Unforgivable Sins?-Murder and denying the Holy Ghost? I'm not sure if that is correct.If so-Have our leaders ever justified Murder in the name of the Lord?-Like Lying in the Name of the Lord?Denying Holy Ghost?-It seems very broad. Does the Church consider members that brake away or leave to have committed an unforgivable sin? What do they mean by denying the Holy Ghost?-I'm new, so if this thread is already going-let me know. I would like to know where these are coming from? Your heart or listening to antimormons? No we dont murder in Gods name. No we dont lie in Gods name.As for denying the Holy Ghost others have covered that. It's very hard to do. Not impossible but hard. You have to be determined, not do it accidentally or carelessly.
Rob Osborn Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Two sins that are not forgivable is first- denying the absolute truth in the face of open revelation on the matter. Basically this means utterly turning away from Christ after knowing him personally. This is what puts Satan and his angels in this class.Second- is to murder after entering into the new and everlasting covenant. Both David and Judas fall into this category. They have both sinned unto death.
PrettyNewMommy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 I would like to know where these are coming from? Your heart or listening to antimormons? No we dont murder in Gods name. No we dont lie in Gods name.As for denying the Holy Ghost others have covered that. It's very hard to do. Not impossible but hard. You have to be determined, not do it accidentally or carelessly.No they were not coming from anti-sites. Just me.I saw a quote BY (I think)..about killing. I was wondering if anyone would bring it up. About adultery, I believe.My husband mentioned the other, denying the Holy Ghost, as for example one of the GAs denying the HG then going and trying to take the Church down. Not his exact words. But more so..The question came up b/c I wanted to see if my husband was right. And the question came up in my DH and I's convo...B/C I really didn't know what it meant exactly.Why do anti-mormons have problems with this too?-Is this another subject ..That we have questionable quotes about?-I really don't know. My whole family is non-lds. They ask questions all the time. I try to find out what we really believe...so I don't look like an idiot when people ask me questions. It looks better when a conversation goes like this:Hey, Do Mormons REALLY believe in this?Oh yeah..This is why. And this is what I think about the whole situation. Either I agree or I don't...etc.Instead of:Hey, Do Mormons REALLY believe in this?Umm.. Sorry I have No idea.But this is HUGE..What do you mean ..You have no idea. What did you walk into this with your ears and eyes closed....My family...They are smart..and humorous people...And I don't want to come off as the ignorant Mormon..ThanksI know people should not expect us to have ALL of the answers. BUT..We tell people we are the true church..and that we have a living prophet..and we have the restored gospel. So..People expect more of us. They do, and maybe they always will. The church puts out a certain image-From exactly what we believe down to the way we dress, and the million things in between.
annewandering Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 You are doing great. Don't beat yourself up if you dont know all the answers immediately. As you can see most of us long term members dont know them all either. It seems to me that we live long enough we might figure out the simple ones like how to increase our faith. How to repent sincerely. How to thank God for what He has done for us. And maybe how to not worry about knowing all the answers. One curse of intelligence is wanting to know all the answers when the simple ones are all we really have to have and having faith that the answers are there but maybe not known now.
SilverKnight Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 No they were not coming from anti-sites. Just me.I saw a quote BY (I think)..about killing. I was wondering if anyone would bring it up. About adultery, I believe.This is Blood Atonement, a popular anti-nugget that has been addressed many times:http://en.fairmormon.org/Blood_atonementHey, Do Mormons REALLY believe in this?Welcome to apologetics.Is your nonmember family Christian (or some other religion) or Secular? It makes a big difference in their motivations and intentions when deconverting you.I know people should not expect us to have ALL of the answers. BUT..We tell people we are the true church..and that we have a living prophet..and we have the restored gospel.This is a complete myth. Critics would have you believe that the LDS church is only church that considers itself to be the true church. Every church considers itself to be the true one. Indeed the very existence of a given religion is because it believes it has more truth, the truth, or the best truth when it comes to divine matters. Every church tells people they are the true church.
Hoops22 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Are there two Unforgivable Sins?-Murder and denying the Holy Ghost? I'm not sure if that is correct.If so-Have our leaders ever justified Murder in the name of the Lord?-Like Lying in the Name of the Lord?Denying Holy Ghost?-It seems very broad. Does the Church consider members that brake away or leave to have committed an unforgivable sin? What do they mean by denying the Holy Ghost?-I'm new, so if this thread is already going-let me know.Thank goodness we only have the Bible. In it, there are none that are unforgivable.
annewandering Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 This is Blood Atonement, a popular anti-nugget that has been addressed many times:http://en.fairmormon.org/Blood_atonementWelcome to apologetics.Is your nonmember family Christian (or some other religion) or Secular? It makes a big difference in their motivations and intentions when deconverting you.This is a complete myth. Critics would have you believe that the LDS church is only church that considers itself to be the true church. Every church considers itself to be the true one. Indeed the very existence of a given religion is because it believes it has more truth, the truth, or the best truth when it comes to divine matters. Every church tells people they are the true church.Well maybe not the Unified Unitarian Church which appears to say that you can believe anything and its true. Or is that truth is relative to what you want it to be? Ok it was a little confusing. But they accept even Mormons believing in them. I think. Or they do if they follow through on their creed.
Hoops22 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 There is only one unforgivable sin, that is to deny the Holy Ghost. This isn't a LDS only idea,Uh, yeah, it is.
annewandering Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Thank goodness we only have the Bible. In it, there are none that are unforgivable. If so then that is one of the plain and precious truths taken from the Bible.
Hoops22 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 If so then that is one of the plain and precious truths taken from the Bible.Any proof of that? Or just a guess?
ttribe Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Uh, yeah, it is.The what does this mean:Matthew 12: 31-32"31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."Link Aid
Hoops22 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. - The pharisees and, by extention the nation of Israel.26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? They are accusing Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus says He would not drive out demons if he were of the devil27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Announcing that the "kingdom of God is at hand." The millennial reign of Christ. 29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house. 30"He who is not with me is against me, Either believe or don't. If you don't, despite what the Holy Spirit is telling you through His word, you are condemned. They had fulfillment of prophecy in their midst - just as the Holy Spirit proclaimed through the OT - yet they chose not to believe. and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.Assigning the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. They had all the evidence required from scripture to believe Jesus is the Christ, yet chose to not believe. Even more so, accused Him of being of the devil. THis is a national sin against Israel and they will be judged (Luke 19:41-44) 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. The church age. The kingdom is deferred until after the church age.
ttribe Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. - The pharisees and, by extention the nation of Israel.26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? They are accusing Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus says He would not drive out demons if he were of the devil27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Announcing that the "kingdom of God is at hand." The millennial reign of Christ. 29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house. 30"He who is not with me is against me, Either believe or don't. If you don't, despite what the Holy Spirit is telling you through His word, you are condemned. They had fulfillment of prophecy in their midst - just as the Holy Spirit proclaimed through the OT - yet they chose not to believe. and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.Assigning the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. They had all the evidence required from scripture to believe Jesus is the Christ, yet chose to not believe. Even more so, accused Him of being of the devil. THis is a national sin against Israel and they will be judged (Luke 19:41-44) 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. The church age. The kingdom is deferred until after the church age.So...you are a strict literalist when it comes to the creation, but when it comes to interpreting the words of Christ, you are willing to fill in the blanks?
PrettyNewMommy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 This is Blood Atonement, a popular anti-nugget that has been addressed many times:http://en.fairmormon.org/Blood_atonementWelcome to apologetics.Is your nonmember family Christian (or some other religion) or Secular? It makes a big difference in their motivations and intentions when deconverting you.This is a complete myth. Critics would have you believe that the LDS church is only church that considers itself to be the true church. Every church considers itself to be the true one. Indeed the very existence of a given religion is because it believes it has more truth, the truth, or the best truth when it comes to divine matters. Every church tells people they are the true church.No..It was not Blood At..I'm not even sure if it was BY. It was something about if I walked in and another man was with my wife ..I would Bludger him. idk. But it def. was not the Blood At, thing.Family-Does not practice anything..I know they believe in God and Jesus Christ though..My mom and sisters. Dad is Catholic.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Second- is to murder after entering into the new and everlasting covenant. Both David and Judas fall into this category. They have both sinned unto death.David is promised that his soul will not remain in hell, so what you've said here doesn't match up with the scripture we have on the subject.
SilverKnight Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 No..It was not Blood At..I'm not even sure if it was BY. It was something about if I walked in and another man was with my wife ..I would Bludger him. idk. But it def. was not the Blood At, thing.Family-Does not practice anything..I know they believe in God and Jesus Christ though..My mom and sisters. Dad is Catholic.Oh I'm sure it was BY.It was probably this:http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Did_Brigham_Yo..._a_Javelin.html
annewandering Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 It is in the Bible. Thank you ttribe from previous post. Matthew 12: 31-32"31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
mnn727 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Thank goodness we only have the Bible. In it, there are none that are unforgivable. Try again:Matthew 12:31,32Mark 3:29Luke 12:10Hebrews 6:4-6Hebrews 10:26
Hoops22 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 So...you are a strict literalist when it comes to the creation, but when it comes to interpreting the words of Christ, you are willing to fill in the blanks?I don't need to fill any blanks. This is what He said. This is to whom it was said. This is the context of His statements.Try again:Matthew 12:31,32Mark 3:29Luke 12:10Hebrews 6:4-6Hebrews 10:26You try again. I've addressed this.It is in the Bible. Thank you ttribe from previous post. :DMatthew 12: 31-32"31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."And yet I'm the only one who has offered up an explanation of what the phrase really means.
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