mnn727 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 This is the context of His statements.You try again. I've addressed this.No you didn't, certainly not to my satisfaction- you make things up based on your preconceived notions of what you want scripture to mean, rather than reading what it actually says
ttribe Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I don't need to fill any blanks. This is what He said. This is to whom it was said. This is the context of His statements.Seem to be some translation issues "age" vs. "world"...you most definitely filled some meaning and interpretation there; but feel free to tell me you didn't all you want. And yet I'm the only one who has offered up an explanation of what the phrase really means.No, actually, you aren't. But you did offer up what you think it really means. And we've offered up what we think it really means.
Luigi Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Are there two Unforgivable Sins?It all depends on who's doing the forgiving. If it were me I can think of several things that I would consider unforgivable but denying invisible beings whose existence is unsupported by concrete evidence is definitely not one of them. However, in Mormonism I believe denying the Holy Ghost is both unforgiveable and unpardonable while murder and denying Christ (if I recall correctly) can be unforgiveable under certain circumstances. Denying the Holy Ghost was always taught to me as essentially apostatizing from the truth once one had an absolute sure witness of the Spirit. This is not particularly surprising, most organizations hold being a 'traitor' among their highest crimes since insiders who go against a group are almost always the best equipped to oppose it.
PrettyNewMommy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 Oh I'm sure it was BY.It was probably this:http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Did_Brigham_Yo..._a_Javelin.htmlYes, that is the one. Am I reading it wrong. Why say that? Why not follow our Savior, Jesus Christ, and forgive an adultress(Why not mention Jesus Christ..and following his teachings and perfect example-in something like this)?..Did he believe it was really justified, and his hands would be clean..Or was he using it as an example of some sort?..
randall Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I am pretty sure that not forgiving others is an unpardonable sin.Matthew 6:15 says"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
ttribe Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Yes, that is the one. Am I reading it wrong. Why say that? Why not follow our Savior, Jesus Christ, and forgive an adultress(Why not mention Jesus Christ..and following his teachings and perfect example-in something like this)?..Did he believe it was really justified, and his hands would be clean..Or was he using it as an example of some sort?..Example; and BY was prone to blustery hyperbole.
SilverKnight Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Yes, that is the one. Am I reading it wrong. Why say that? Why not follow our Savior, Jesus Christ, and forgive an adultress(Why not mention Jesus Christ..and following his teachings and perfect example-in something like this)?..Did he believe it was really justified, and his hands would be clean..Or was he using it as an example of some sort?..Brigham Young said great many bombastic, hyperbolic, misogynistic, sexist, racist, crude and generally frightening things. He was not so different than most other fiery 19th century pulpit-pounding preachers, except he was mormon.150 years of kinder, gentler statements from subsequent LDS presidents hopefully has tempered BY's firebreathing a bit.
Hoops22 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Seem to be some translation issues "age" vs. "world"...you most definitely filled some meaning and interpretation there; but feel free to tell me you didn't all you want. No, actually, you aren't. But you did offer up what you think it really means. And we've offered up what we think it really means.I'm taking the text as plainly as possible. Should I not? I see no counter to what the text is telling us, so should I assume that lds really have no answer?All I've got so far are statements like:I am pretty sure that not forgiving others is an unpardonable sin.Matthew 6:15 says"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."an act which presumably few people on earth are even capable of committing.'The shedding of innocent blood' and the 'sin against the Holy Ghost' are both unforgivable, but they are only one sin.As for denying the Holy Ghost others have covered that. It's very hard to do. Not impossible but hard. You have to be determined, not do it accidentally or carelessly.Two sins that are not forgivable is first- denying the absolute truth in the face of open revelation on the matter. Basically this means utterly turning away from Christ after knowing him personally. This is what puts Satan and his angels in this class.Second- is to murder after entering into the new and everlasting covenant. Both David and Judas fall into this category. They have both sinned unto death
Koneko Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Yes, that is the one. Am I reading it wrong. Why say that? Why not follow our Savior, Jesus Christ, and forgive an adultress(Why not mention Jesus Christ..and following his teachings and perfect example-in something like this)?..Did he believe it was really justified, and his hands would be clean..Or was he using it as an example of some sort?..I wanted to share a good response (in a mostly terrible thread) on this topic that was discussed a few month's back. I think the poster explains the context of the javelin quote, and explains the symbolism and intent beautifully.http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...mp;p=1208526596
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