The Divine Council

[johnny]

kryoung1983,

You are taking the Bible out of any historic context? What is the historic context of the verses that you are quoting. This has been dealt with so often that it all feels quite redundant.

Please show us how I am "taking the Bible out of any historic context" ... thanks.

The historical context is that God reveals himself overtime, the modern revelation of the New Testament clarifies the Old Testament verses I have presented.

[LDSMusic483]

kryoung1983,

Please show us how I am "taking the Bible out of any historic context" ... thanks.

The historical context is that God reveals himself overtime, the modern revelation of the New Testament clarifies the Old Testament verses I have presented.

Indeed God does reveal himself over time. The modern revaltion of the Doctrine and Covenants clarifies the Old Testament and the New Testament that you have presented.

[johnny]

LDSMusic483

Indeed God does reveal himself over time. The modern revaltion of the Doctrine and Covenants clarifies the Old Testament and the New Testament.

If something clarifies it should also be consistent. The problem with modern Mormon revelation is that it is not consistent with either the Old Testament nor the New Testament.

[LDSMusic483]

LDSMusic483

If something clarifies it should also be consistent. The problem with modern Mormon revelation is that it is not consistent with either the Old Testament nor the New Testament.

And who says the translation of the bible we have today is fully consistent with the original texts?

[Bill Hamblin]

Sargon

That would be great if you could provide a list of Biblical prooftexts that support the Mormon position that â??"the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it."

From my viewpoint neither the OT nor the NT support the Mormon position.

In Prov 8:22-31 Wisdom is with God during creation (cf. 1 Cor 1:24,30).

In Job 38:7 the "Sons of God" are present at Creation.

[kryoung1983]

LDSMusic483

If something clarifies it should also be consistent. The problem with modern Mormon revelation is that it is not consistent with either the Old Testament nor the New Testament.

You mean its not consistent with your interpretation of the Old and New Testament. It is quite consistent with the idea of a divine council. Its all over the place. Hebrew, canaan, mesopotamia, phonecia,etc. I am no biblical scholar but even I, understand that much. Rabbi Nissim Wernick in his dissertation said,

"The Book of Enoch relates that before God created the world, He held a consultation with the souls of the righteous. It speaks of an assembly of the holy and righteous ones in heaven under the wings of the Lord of the spirits with the Elect (the Messiah) in their midst. Enoch especially mentions the "first fathers and the righteous who have dwelt in that place (paradise) from the beginning." In fact, it is a "congregation of the righteous" in heaven that will appear in the Messianic time. It also states that the Elect who had been hidden will be revealed with them. Practically the same sentence is employed in IV Esdras when it states that "the hidden Messiah will be revealed together with all those that are with him."

Jewish literature not only deals with the concept of the pre-mortal existence of souls, but also the concept that these very same pre-mortal souls served an important role in their pre-mortal existence. They were consulted with and did consult God on many vital matters, and especially on the matter of Creation." The idea of a 'coucil' of 'consultation' survived as far as jewish documents in the time of Christ. Your interpretation doesn't really seem to hold water.

[johnny]

Bill Hamblin

In Prov 8:22-31 Wisdom is with God during creation (cf. 1 Cor 1:24,30).

I would agree Wisdom is with God during creation, Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Christ is the Word that was with God and the Word that was God.

In Job 38:7 the "Sons of God" are present at Creation.

The "sons of God" or angels were present when God laid the foundations of the earth because God created the heavens and their hosts first.

The man Job was not around when God laid the foundations of the earth because the man Job became a living soul after the his body was formed from the dust of the ground.

The "sons of God" who make up the divine council did not form the earth and did not form man like Mormon scripture reveals.

[Doctor Steuss]

In Prov 8:22-31 Wisdom is with God during creation (cf. 1 Cor 1:24,30).

[...].

The thing that fascinates me about these verses is that it appears to be Wisdom herself (first person) addressing the sons of man. Then again, perhaps I have read them incorrectly(?)

[emeliza]

The thing that fascinates me about these verses is that it appears to be Wisdom herself (first person) addressing the sons of man. Then again, perhaps I have read them incorrectly(?)

Nope, your right, I was there.

[johnny]

kryoung1983

You mean its not consistent with your interpretation of the Old and New Testament. It is quite consistent with the idea of a divine council. Its all over the place. Hebrew, canaan, mesopotamia, phonecia,etc. I am no biblical scholar but even I, understand that much. Rabbi Nissim Wernick in his dissertation said,

Please give us your understanding of the bolded texts in the following Old Testament passages.

• Mal.2 ([10] Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?)
  
• -
  
• Isa.44 ([6] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. [8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. [24] Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; )
  

"The Book of Enoch ... Jewish literature"

Neither the Book of Enoch or Jewish literature is scripture for me, doctrine comes from inspired scripture.

[Ron Beron]

'johnny' ruminates,

The Jewish Study Bible does not have the modern revelation of the New Testament that reveals that the "us" is "the Word". "the Word was with God" in the beginning (John 1:1).

What is the meaning of the word, "Word" here? Is it not LOGOS? What is logos? In the Catholic Encyclopedia it states that the Jewish scholar Philo equated it with a co-creator of God,

• sometimes, influenced by Jewish tradition, Philo represents the Logos as the creative Word of God ("De Sacrific. Ab. et Cain"; cf. "De Somniis", I 182; "De Opif. Mundi", 13);
  
• at other times he describes it as the revealer of God, symbolized in Scripture by the angel of Jahveh ("De Somniis", I, 228-39, "De Cherub.", 3; "De Fuga", 5; "Quis rer. divin. haeres sit", 201-205).
  
• Oftener again he accepts the language of Hellenic speculation; the Logos is then, after a Platonistic concept, the sum total of ideas and the intelligible world ("De Opif. Mundi", 24, 25; "Leg. Alleg.", I, 19; III, 96),
  
• or, agreeably to the Stoic theory, the power that upholds the world, the bond that assures its cohesion, the law that determines its development ("De Fuga", 110; "De Plantat. Noah," 8-10; "Quis rer. divin. haeres sit", 188, 217; "Quod Deus sit immut.", 176; "De Opif. Mundi", 143).
  

John used Logos to represent a far older meaning of Jesus as co-creator with God. The OT represents Logos as Hokhma or Wisdom which the LDS posters here has represented countless times as co-creator with God and was part of a divine council.

• "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion." Jer. 10:12
  

• "O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches." Ps. 104:24
  

• "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." Prov. 3:19
  

Isaiah 6 and Psalm 89 refer to a divine council that comes AFTER the "let us". God was alone and by himself when he made the earth and created man upon it.

One God created us, not a council of gods. The Lord made the heaven of heavens with all their hosts with a command.

This is not consistent with the OT record. From Dr. Heiser's website http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/dc%20explanation.htm

The Divine Council in the Old Testament -

An Introduction

The most basic definition of the

divine council is "God and his heavenly host." That definition is

insufficient since it is usually assumed that this "host" means the

angels. This is only partially correct.

It is no secret to Old Testament

scholars that the Old Testament often reflects literary and religious contact

between Israel and her ancient near eastern neighbors. One example of such

contact concerns a "divine council" or "divine assembly"

presided over by a chief deity.1 A number of passages in the

Hebrew Bible depict God presiding over a council of divine beings, and these

passages often describe the divine council's membership and function with

precise terminology utilized in ancient near eastern literature for the judicial

oversight of their pantheons over the cosmos. Of particular interest to the

study at hand are the Ugaritic texts, since that language bears such a close

linguistic affinity to Biblical Hebrew.2

One of the examples of the divine

council assembled for deliberation in the Hebrew Bible is I Kings 22:19-23 (cf.

II Chron. 18:18-22).3 I Kings 22:1-18 introduces the

political alliance forged between Jehoshaphat of Judah and the king of Israel

for invading Ramoth-Gilead, the rubber-stamping of the plan by four hundred

prophets of Israel, and Jehoshaphatâ??s insistence on hearing from a true

prophet of Yahweh concerning the matter. The king of Israel reveals that there

is indeed a prophet of Yahweh, Micaiah ben Imlah, but that Micaiah never

prophesies anything favorable concerning him. Micaiah is summoned, and at first

he mockingly prophesies blessing for the invasion, but his duplicity is detected

immediately by Jehoshaphat. This sets the stage for Micaiahâ??s genuine vision

(emphasis mine):

19 Micaiah

continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I

saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing

around him on his right and on his left. 20

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and

going to his death there?' One

suggested this, and another that. 21

Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will

entice him.' 22 'By what means?' the LORD asked. 'I will go out and be a

lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. 'You will succeed

in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' 23 So now the LORD has put

a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has

decreed disaster for you."

In a scene that resembles Ugaritic

council scenes, Yahweh is pictured as the chief deity,4

enthroned among the members of His council before directly addressing its

members, who "stand" (a technical term 5) before

Him.6 The question asked by Yahweh occurs in a form

paralleled in Ugaritic literature and other passages involving Yahwehâ??s

presence in the Hebrew Bible.7 The omniscient leader then

approves the course of action He knows will be successful, and the messenger

(the "spirit"8 here, but often a prophet) is

commissioned. It is not that Yahweh is lacking ideas, or that the members of the

council exercise any actual authority, but rather that the council only serves

to "reemphasize and execute His decisions."9 This

is the same pattern as in the Ugaritic council texts.10

Micaiah in this instance is permitted to observe the deliberations of the divine

"boardroom meeting" and thus pronounce with certainty "thus saith

the LORD" as a messenger of the divine assembly.

A second example of the divine

council in the Hebrew Bible is Psalm 82. This psalm makes it quite clear

that Yahwehâ??s council includes other gods who are under his authority. Setting

the Hebrew text of three verses (Psa 82:1-2, 6) in relation to the translation

brings out the now familiar council language and the plurality of the gods

(elohim) in question:

1 God (elohim) stands in the

divine council (the "adat-el");

he judges among the gods (elohim).

6 [Yahweh speaking]

I have said, You [grammatical plural pronoun]

[are] gods (elohim) and all of you [grammatical

plural pronoun] are children of the most High (beney

â??elyon).

7 But you [grammatical plural pronoun]

shall die like humanity and fall like one of the princes.

The first elohim

of Psa. 82:1 is singular by grammar and context, while the

second is unmistakably plural â??

again by grammar and context. This will be news to many readers - that Israel

believed other gods existed, and that the God of the Bible ruled the other gods.11

I invite you to get the files on Psalm 82 and Deut. 32 and monotheism

especially.

NOTES

1 The

major work on the divine council is by E. Theodore Mullen, The

Divine Council in Canaanite and Early Hebrew Literature,

Harvard Semitic Monographs, no. 24 (Missoula, Montana: Scholars Press, 1980).

Related to Mullenâ??s work, but focusing on more specific aspects of the divine

council are: Lowell K. Handy, Among

the Host of Heaven: The Syroâ??Palestinian Pantheon as Bureaucracy (Winona

Lake: Eisenbrauns, 1994), and Conrad Lâ??Heureux, Rank

among the Canaanite Gods: El, Baal, and the Rephaim,

Harvard Semitic Monographs, no. 21 (Scholars Press, 1979).

2 Stanislav

Segert, A Basic Grammar of

the Ugaritic Language: With Selected Texts and Glossary (Berkeley:

University of California Press, 1985), x, 13â??15.

3 Other

than the two primary examples of the council in the Hebrew Bible offered in the

body of this paper, see Job 1,2; Psalm 89:6-7; and Zech. 3:1â??8.

4 The

chief deity and leader of the council at Ugarit was El. The Hebrew text makes it

clear that El is Israelâ??s God as well (although the El

of the Bible [cf.

"El, the God of Israel"; Gen. 33:20] does not share his Ugaritic

counterpart's behaviors and to Israel Yahweh is El (cf. Deut. 7:9; 10:17; II

Sam. 22:31 [parallelism]; Ps. 85:9; Isa. 42:5; Jer. 32:. The equation in the

literature is also seen by virtue of the numerous epithets at Ugarit for the

high god El that are used of Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible (see Cross, Canaanite

Myth and Hebrew Epic, 44â??76).

5 Mullen,

The Divine Council, p.

207, 209â??226. In this regard, it is interesting to note Isaiah 6:2 in the LXX,

where the angelic beings in the passage stand before

Yahweh, not above him as in MT.

6 Cf.

KTU 1.16.V.9â??28;

Ugaritica V.2.I.2â??4.

See Mullen, The Divine

Council, 205ff.

7 Cf.

KTU 1.16.V.10â??11,

14â??15, 17â??18, 20â??21.

8 This

is a common designation for Yahwehâ??s / the councilâ??s messengers. See Mullen,

The Divine Council, 206.

9 Ibid.,

207.

10 Ibid.,

206.

11

Israel's God in fact decreed that the nations outside Israel must worship those

other gods, and set those nations under the authority of those gods.

Yahweh was also viewed as their creator, so they must exist and cannot be idols

(Yahweh is no idol maker! - compare Deut. 32:8-9 [reading with Septuagint and

the Dead Sea scrolls]; Deut 4:19-20; Deut 29:25; Neh 9:6; Psa 33:6; Psa 148:1-5;

see also Mike's PDF file of his article [published by Dallas Seminary] on the

textual variances in Deut 32:8-9, "Deuteronomy 32:8 and the Sons of

God").

[Doctor Steuss]

Nope, your right, I was there.

[LDSMusic483]

Bill Hamblin

I would agree Wisdom is with God during creation, Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Christ is the Word that was with God and the Word that was God.

The "sons of God" or angels were present when God laid the foundations of the earth because God created the heavens and their hosts first.

The man Job was not around when God laid the foundations of the earth because the man Job became a living soul after the his body was formed from the dust of the ground.

The "sons of God" who make up the divine council did not form the earth and did not form man like Mormon scripture reveals.

Sons of God, Offspring of God...kinda sounds like the same thing to me

[Tanyan]

'johnny' ruminates,

What is the meaning of the word, "Word" here? Is it not LOGOS? What is logos? In the Catholic Encyclopedia it states that the Jewish scholar Philo equated it with a co-creator of God,

• sometimes, influenced by Jewish tradition, Philo represents the Logos as the creative Word of God ("De Sacrific. Ab. et Cain"; cf. "De Somniis", I 182; "De Opif. Mundi", 13);
  
• at other times he describes it as the revealer of God, symbolized in Scripture by the angel of Jahveh ("De Somniis", I, 228-39, "De Cherub.", 3; "De Fuga", 5; "Quis rer. divin. haeres sit", 201-205).
  
• Oftener again he accepts the language of Hellenic speculation; the Logos is then, after a Platonistic concept, the sum total of ideas and the intelligible world ("De Opif. Mundi", 24, 25; "Leg. Alleg.", I, 19; III, 96),
  
• or, agreeably to the Stoic theory, the power that upholds the world, the bond that assures its cohesion, the law that determines its development ("De Fuga", 110; "De Plantat. Noah," 8-10; "Quis rer. divin. haeres sit", 188, 217; "Quod Deus sit immut.", 176; "De Opif. Mundi", 143).
  

John used Logos to represent a far older meaning of Jesus as co-creator with God. The OT represents Logos as Hokhma or Wisdom which the LDS posters here has represented countless times as co-creator with God and was part of a divine council.

• "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion." Jer. 10:12
  

• "O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches." Ps. 104:24
  

• "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." Prov. 3:19
  

This is not consistent with the OT record. From Dr. Heiser's website http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/dc%20explanation.htm

That is Awesome , it will be interesting to see how Johnny responds to this. In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan, LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Sargon]

Sargon

That would be great if you could provide a list of Biblical prooftexts that support the Mormon position that â??"the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it."

From my viewpoint neither the OT nor the NT support the Mormon position.

You are missing the point johnny. Lists of prooftexts are only useful for petty bible bashes. REAL scholarship has demonstrated over and over and over that the ancient Israelites, including some of the prophets, accepted the fact that more than one divine being exists in the heavens, and that these beings form a sort of "council." What world renowned scholar do you have that says otherwise?

Nonetheless, since you demand that I participate in meaningless exchanges of prooftext lists, here is mine. This is a list I compiled of scriptures which I believe demonstrate that the authors of these verses believed that more than one divine person exists in the heavens.

http://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2007/12/...theistic-bible/

In all of Christendom Mormons are unique in declaring that multiple diving beings exist in the heavens. An organized explanation of that belief is the subject for another post, in this one I wish only to provide a list that I have compiled of bible passages that seem to demonstrate that basic fact. Some of them are more impressive than others, and taken as a whole they provide a strong argument for the fact that the various authors of the bible believed in the existence of multiple divinities.

God of Gods

(What sort of praise is it to say God is above all gods if no other gods exist?)

(Matt 22:32, Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38; God is not the God of the dead, but of the living)

Gen 1: 26 Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Gen 3: 5 ye shall be as gods

Gen 3: 22 the man is become as one of us

Gen 11: 6-7 let us go down

Exo 15: 11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?

Deut 10:17 the LORD(yehvah) your God is God of gods

Josh 22: 22 The LORD(yehvah) God of gods, the LORD(yehvah) God of gods

2 Chron 2: 5 our God above all gods.

Psalm 82: 1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalm 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86: 8 Among the gods

Psalm 95: 3 above all gods

Psalm 135: 5 above all gods

psalm 136: 2 the God of gods

Psalm 138: 1 before the gods

Isa 14: 13 above the stars of Godâ?¦ upon the mount of the congregation

Daniel 2: 47 God is a God of gods

Dan 5: 14 spirit of the gods

Daniel 11: 36 against the God of gods

Most High God

Gen 14: 18 -20,22 most high God

2 Sam 22: 14 the most High

Psalm 7: 17 LORD most high

Psalm 18: 13 the Highest

Psalm 47: 2 LORD most high

Psalm 50: 14 the most High

Psalm 57: 2 God most high

Psalm 78: 56 the most high God

Psalm 82: 6 you are children of the most High

Psalm 83: 18 the most high

Psalm 91: 9 the most High

Psalm 92: 1,8 O most High

Heb 7: 1 most high God

Other Gods

Deut 4:19 them(gods), which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Exo 22: 28 Thou shalt not revile the gods

Exo 23: 13 the name of other gods

Psalm 29: 1 O ye gods (ben

[johnny]

Ron Beron

What is the meaning of the word, "Word" here? Is it not LOGOS? What is logos? In the Catholic Encyclopedia it states that the Jewish scholar Philo equated it with a co-creator of God,

The Word is "by whom are all things" (1Cor 8:6).

John used Logos to represent a far older meaning of Jesus as co-creator with God. The OT represents Logos as Hokhma or Wisdom which the LDS posters here has represented countless times as co-creator with God and was part of a divine council.

The "divine council" are angels who are present but they are not co-creator's with God because the Lord alone made all things. Christ is the the power of God, and the wisdom of God (1Cor 1:24). The apostle John reveals that the â??usâ? in the book of Genesis is the Word, he says the Word was with God. Even though the Word was with God, the Word was not beside him but was with him, the Word was in the bosom of the Father. The Word and God are not separate Gods, the prophet Malachi reveals that One God created. The Word was not a second and separate God, the apostle John tells us that the Word was God.

This is not consistent with the OT record. From Dr. Heiser's website

My statement is consistent with OT record (see below). You have not presented anything that reveals a divine council formed the earth or formed man like Mormon scripture reveals.

• Neh.9 ( [5] Then the Levites, Jeshua, and Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabniah, Sherebiah, Hodijah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah, said, Stand up and bless the LORD your God for ever and ever: and blessed be thy glorious name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. [6] Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. )
  

[johnny]

LDSMusic483

Sons of God, Offspring of God...kinda sounds like the same thing to me

They are different, one is only spirit and the other is spirit and body.

[johnny]

Sargon

You are missing the point johnny. Lists of prooftexts are only useful for petty bible bashes. REAL scholarship has demonstrated over and over and over that the ancient Israelites, including some of the prophets, accepted the fact that more than one divine being exists in the heavens, and that these beings form a sort of "council." What world renowned scholar do you have that says otherwise?

I would agree that their is a divine council. My point is that this divine council did not form the heavens and the earth and this divine council did not form man like Mormon scripture reveals, see below.

• The Book of Abraham 5 "The Gods finish their planning of the creation of all things [1] And thus we will finish the heavens and the earth, and all the hosts of them. [2] And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will rest on the seventh time from all our work which we have counseled. [3] And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would rest from all their works which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and sanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth. [4] And the Gods came down and formed these the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were formed in the day that the Gods formed the earth and the heavens, [5] According to all that which they had said concerning every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew; for the Gods had not caused it to rain upon the earth when they counseled to do them, and had not formed a man to till the ground. [6] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. [7] And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the manâ??s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."
  

[LDSMusic483]

LDSMusic483

They are different, one is only spirit and the other is spirit and body.

cfr please, because they don't differentiate that

[Sargon]

Johnny, why are you at odds with Mark Smith, William Dever, Raphael Patai, Michael Heiser, Margaret Barker, John Day, and the rest of the academic community on this question?

[emeliza]

Johnny, why are you at odds with Mark Smith, William Dever, Raphael Patai, Michael Heiser, Margaret Barker, John Day, and the rest of the academic community on this question?

How many of the above are Catholic?

[Sargon]

SargonI would agree that their is a divine council. My point is that this divine council did not form the heavens and the earth and this divine council did not form man like Mormon scripture reveals, see below.

Sheesh! Is that all?? We get the biggest part of it right and you can only resort to complaining about a detail??

How many of the above are Catholic?

None that I know of. Does it matter?

[emeliza]

None that I know of. Does it matter?

It might to Johnny.

[johnny]

LDSMusic483

cfr please, because they don't differentiate that

Satan was "sons of God", Satan is a spirit who does not have physical mortal body. Paul, who is spirit and body, says "we" are the offspring of God. See verses below.

• Job.2 ([1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. [7] So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. )
  
• -
  
• Acts.17 ([24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; [25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device)
  

[kryoung1983]

kryoung1983

Please give us your understanding of the bolded texts in the following Old Testament passages.

• Mal.2 ([10] Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?)
  
• -
  
• Isa.44 ([6] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. [8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. [24] Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; )
  

Neither the Book of Enoch or Jewish literature is scripture for me, doctrine comes from inspired scripture.

Jon levenson, a professor of Judaism at Harvard Divinity school said,

"Not a trace of theogonomy can be foudn in teh Hebrew Bible. God has no nativity. But there do seem to be other divine beings in Genesis 1, to whom God prposes the creation of humanity, male and female; 'let us make man in our image, after our likeness' (vs 26) When were these otehr divine beings created? They too seem to hae been primordial...from the biblical accounts of the divine assembly in session, it would appear that these 'sons of God/gods' played an active role and made fresh proposals to God, who nonetheless had the final say"

In the book Of God and Gods by Blake T. Ostler he addresses this in quite abundance. In the book he states, "Rashi also argued that Genesis 1:1-3 does not provide the order of creation because the waters exist before God begins his creations. Thus order of creation is not indicated, but the state of the earth when God began to create is. The creation of the earth was preceded by Chaos" The implications are obvious if you accept the hebrew idea of preexistant chaos, if you reject ex nihilo then unorganized chaos is self existant with God. Rashis thinking has very strong paralels with the statements of Joseph Smith, as illustrated by Blake T. Ostlers work.