The Divine Council

[kryoung1983]

What do you think contributes the best evidence from both the Bible and outside of the Bible for the divine council within an ancient middle eastern context. I have read a little of Theodore Mullens Jrs the divine council in caananite and early hebrew literature. It is Dynamite. In the book he states that,

"The Council motif in Mesopotamia is seen most clearly in Tablet I V

of Enuma elis, where the council of the gods (the puhur ilani )

proclaims Marduk as king and deliverer . The mid-second millennium

R .C . date of this epic 8 places it in the same time

Period as the texts from Ugarit and thus makes the parallels

Between the council in Mesopotamia and Ugarit even more important,

as we shall show below . In Enuma elis, the power of

the assembly was given to Marduk, a situation very analogous

to the concept of the council in Ugarit and Israel . The

parallels between the council motifs in Mesopotamia, Canaan ,

and Israel clearly show that the concept of the divine council

must be taken as one which was common to the ancient Near

East." and in conclusion at the end of the book he draws some pretty strong paralels in the role of Prophet as messenger of the god/gods. He says,

"The

council of the gods met to decree the fate of both gods and

humans . The assembly was composed of both the major and minor

deities, whose functions were to aid the high god in warfare ,

to carry out his decree, to act as the herald of the council ,

and to honor and adore him . They did not have the power of

decree or of life . This belonged only to the high god 'E1 /

Yahweh . While the monotheistic tendencies of Israelite reli -

gion prohibited the worship of other gods, we have clearly

demonstrated that divine beings surrounded Yahweh in his council,

though they were not given names or special individual

functions in the pre-exilic period . In the religion of

Ugarit, the council was an object of worship, as is clearly

seen in the sacrificial tariffs from Ras Shamra . Phoenician

inscriptions reveal that the assembly of the gods was invoked

along with the major gods of the pantheon as late as the sixth

century B .C . In all three traditions, however, the divine

council has no authority or power apart from the high god .

Though a full hypostatization does not seem to have taken

place, the assembly and the decree of the high god are in -

separable .

The Israelite traditions of the council, while parallel -

ing those of Canaan and Phoenicia, introduce a new element- -

the prophet as herald/courier of the council . In the Ugaritic

myths, the messages of the council ['El) were carried by di -

vine beings ; in Hebrew prophecy, the decree of Yahweh wa s

delivered by the human prophet . The similarity between the

divine messenger and the human prophet is remarkable . Bot h

carried the absolute authority of the deity who dispatched

them . They, in effect, represented the presence of the deity

in the decree."

This is especially relevant in such works as 1st enoch, of which it is pretty amazing that the pseudipigrapha has elements that can be traced as far back as 1600 b.c in ras shamara. In any case what are some others insights on the divine council in biblical scholarship.

[Rommelator]

I just got done reading Mark Smith The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts. It is an amazing book on this subject. He covers the Divine Council in some detail. As does Margaret Barker.

The best evidence is Gensis 1:26. The Jewish Study Bible has a footnote at the bottom of the page that indicates that the plural construct "let us" denotes the Divine Council.

Oh, that and Isaiah 6 and Psalms 89.

[kryoung1983]

I just got done reading Mark Smith The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts. It is an amazing book on this subject. He covers the Divine Council in some detail. As does Margaret Barker.

The best evidence is Gensis 1:26. The Jewish Study Bible has a footnote at the bottom of the page that indicates that the plural construct "let us" denotes the Divine Council.

Oh, that and Isaiah 6 and Psalms 89.

I actually am awaiting my own copy of Mark S. Smiths 'the origins of biblical monotheism: Israels polytheistic background and the ugaritic texts.' I can't wait to read it! Its going to be awesome!! Its taking forever to get here though.

[cksalmon]

I have read a little of Theodore Mullens Jrs the divine council in caananite and early hebrew literature. It is Dynamite. In the book he states that,

...

In any case what are some others insights on the divine council in biblical scholarship.

If you're interested in this subject, I'd highly recommend Michael Heiser's '04 dissertation, "The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature."

You can download a PDF copy from his website for $20, or you might be able to pick up a hard copy somewhere else. I don't know.

cks

Here's the TOC:

Chapter One: Introduction to the Study . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1

1.1 Previous Divine Council Scholarship and the Need for This Study

1.2 Divine Plurality in Late Canonical Texts and Assumptions About Israelite Monotheism

1.3 The Problem of Divine Plurality in Second Temple Non-Canonical Jewish

Literature

1.4 Comments on Metaphor and Divine Imagery

1.5 Overview of Ensuing Chapters

Chapter Two: The Divine Council of Pre-Exilic Israelite Religion as the

Backdrop for Divine Plurality in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Texts . . . . . . . . . . . . 34

2.1 Terminology for the Divine Council

2.2 The Meeting Place of the Divine Council

2.3 The Members of the Divine Council

2.4 The Structure and Operation of the Divine Councilâ??s Bureaucracy

2.5 The Status and Role of the Vice-Regent

2.6 Interpretation of Divine Hypostases and the Vice-Regent in Second Temple Texts

Chapter Three: Assumptions of Exilic Redaction and the Progression From Polytheism

to Monotheism: The Argument from Deuteronomy 32 and Psalm 82 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68

3.1 Text-Historical Assumptions and Late Israelite Religion

3.2 The Argument for Exilic Alteration or Elimination of the Divine Council

3.3 Psalm 82: Yahweh-El or Yahweh and El?

3.4 The Relationship of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 to Psalm 82

3.5 Summation

Chapter Four: The Divine Council and Monolatry in Deuteronomy and

Deutero-Isaiah . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90

4.1 Deuteronomy: Monotheism or Monolatry?

4.2 Deutero-Isaiah: Monotheism or Monolatry?

4.3 Summation

Chapter Five: The Divine Council in Exilic and Early Post-Exilic Canonical

Texts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122

5.1 Divine Plurality and Divine Council Motifs in Late Psalms

5.2 Divine Plurality and Council Activity in the Book of Job

5.3 The Divine Council Scene of Zechariah 3:1-7

5.4 Divine Council Terms and Motifs Elsewhere in Zechariah

5.5 Summation

Chapter Six: The Divine Council in the Book of Daniel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 152

6.1 Preview and Approach

6.2 The Divine Council Meeting in Daniel 7

6.3 Divine Plurality, the â??Princesâ? of Daniel, and Yahwehâ??s Vice-Regent

6.4 Summation

Chapter Seven: The Divine Council in the Qumran Sectarian Literature . . . . . . . . . . . 183

7.1 Terminology for the Divine Council

7.2 The Meeting Place of the Divine Council

7.3 The Members of the Divine Council

7.4 The Divine Vice-Regent of the Council

7.5 Summation

Chapter Eight: The Divine Council in Non-Sectarian Literature from

Qumran and Other Non-Canonical Second Temple Period Literature . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225

8.1 Overview of the Primary Issues

8.2 The Divine Council and Second Tier Council Members

8.3 References to the Divine Council and the Worldview of Deuteronomy 4 and 32

8.4 Evidence for an Exalted Divine Vice Regent

8.5 Jewish Speculations on the Identity of the Divine Vice Regent

8.6 Summation

Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 258

[kryoung1983]

If you're interested in this subject, I'd highly recommend Michael Heiser's '04 dissertation, "The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature."

You can download a PDF copy from his website for $20, or you might be able to pick up a hard copy somewhere else. I don't know.

cks

Here's the TOC:

Chapter One: Introduction to the Study . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1

1.1 Previous Divine Council Scholarship and the Need for This Study

1.2 Divine Plurality in Late Canonical Texts and Assumptions About Israelite Monotheism

1.3 The Problem of Divine Plurality in Second Temple Non-Canonical Jewish

Literature

1.4 Comments on Metaphor and Divine Imagery

1.5 Overview of Ensuing Chapters

Chapter Two: The Divine Council of Pre-Exilic Israelite Religion as the

Backdrop for Divine Plurality in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Texts . . . . . . . . . . . . 34

2.1 Terminology for the Divine Council

2.2 The Meeting Place of the Divine Council

2.3 The Members of the Divine Council

2.4 The Structure and Operation of the Divine Councilâ??s Bureaucracy

2.5 The Status and Role of the Vice-Regent

2.6 Interpretation of Divine Hypostases and the Vice-Regent in Second Temple Texts

Chapter Three: Assumptions of Exilic Redaction and the Progression From Polytheism

to Monotheism: The Argument from Deuteronomy 32 and Psalm 82 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68

3.1 Text-Historical Assumptions and Late Israelite Religion

3.2 The Argument for Exilic Alteration or Elimination of the Divine Council

3.3 Psalm 82: Yahweh-El or Yahweh and El?

3.4 The Relationship of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 to Psalm 82

3.5 Summation

Chapter Four: The Divine Council and Monolatry in Deuteronomy and

Deutero-Isaiah . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90

4.1 Deuteronomy: Monotheism or Monolatry?

4.2 Deutero-Isaiah: Monotheism or Monolatry?

4.3 Summation

Chapter Five: The Divine Council in Exilic and Early Post-Exilic Canonical

Texts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122

5.1 Divine Plurality and Divine Council Motifs in Late Psalms

5.2 Divine Plurality and Council Activity in the Book of Job

5.3 The Divine Council Scene of Zechariah 3:1-7

5.4 Divine Council Terms and Motifs Elsewhere in Zechariah

5.5 Summation

Chapter Six: The Divine Council in the Book of Daniel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 152

6.1 Preview and Approach

6.2 The Divine Council Meeting in Daniel 7

6.3 Divine Plurality, the â??Princesâ? of Daniel, and Yahwehâ??s Vice-Regent

6.4 Summation

Chapter Seven: The Divine Council in the Qumran Sectarian Literature . . . . . . . . . . . 183

7.1 Terminology for the Divine Council

7.2 The Meeting Place of the Divine Council

7.3 The Members of the Divine Council

7.4 The Divine Vice-Regent of the Council

7.5 Summation

Chapter Eight: The Divine Council in Non-Sectarian Literature from

Qumran and Other Non-Canonical Second Temple Period Literature . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225

8.1 Overview of the Primary Issues

8.2 The Divine Council and Second Tier Council Members

8.3 References to the Divine Council and the Worldview of Deuteronomy 4 and 32

8.4 Evidence for an Exalted Divine Vice Regent

8.5 Jewish Speculations on the Identity of the Divine Vice Regent

8.6 Summation

Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 258

Man, I will have to read that when I get the time. This looks very very good. I still have Mark S. Smith and Theodore Mullens Jr to get through. I really do respect michael heiser though. Very good stuff.

[e=mc2]

I actually am awaiting my own copy of Mark S. Smiths 'the origins of biblical monotheism: Israels polytheistic background and the ugaritic texts.' I can't wait to read it! Its going to be awesome!! Its taking forever to get here though.

TRUST ME..... it's WORTH the wait. It will realign yer thinkin man! Absolutely one of the top 10 books I have *ever* read.

[e=mc2]

Um, Blake Ostler's brand new book, the third in his trilogy on Exploring Mormon Thought, is all about the Divine Concil and plurality of Gods and Monotheism. Now for a bad confession. I haven't had time to crack it open. As doggone blasted wonderfully GOOD as the other two were, I am waiting for an entire DAY before I start, because I just know I won't be putting it down. Hurry and buy one though, as I was interviewing Blake for my You Tube vids, we saw Greg and he told Blake he only printed an initial 490 of them. There will, of corse, be far more printed, but the question is WHEN? lol........ oh the joys of authorship eh?

[kryoung1983]

I will have to take a look at Blakes book. I saw it over at Deseret book. I remember that you once made some comment about all they have there is fluff. You are pretty right. I saw that they are putting the nauvoo book on clearance. I guess the majority of people just want the fluff you know. That is what sales. But any way I am sure it will blow my mind. I haven't read any of Blake Ostlers books. Maybe you should do a youtube video when you get the time. I just watched the testimony talk by Daniel C. Peterson. I have to say that I respect that man. I love everything he writes and he was quite hilarious. Loved his sense of humor. I will have to try to make it to next years FAIR conference since I couldn't come to this one.

[e=mc2]

I will have to take a look at Blakes book. I saw it over at Deseret book. I remember that you once made some comment about all they have there is fluff. You are pretty right. I saw that they are putting the nauvoo book on clearance. I guess the majority of people just want the fluff you know. That is what sales. But any way I am sure it will blow my mind. I haven't read any of Blake Ostlers books. Maybe you should do a youtube video when you get the time. I just watched the testimony talk by Daniel C. Peterson. I have to say that I respect that man. I love everything he writes and he was quite hilarious. Loved his sense of humor. I will have to try to make it to next years FAIR conference since I couldn't come to this one.

Whatever you do, DO NOT compliment Peterson here in public, it'll swell his already fat head!

I have always enjoyed reading his materials, as I find them and have time. Ostler's books are really good reading, yet deep and profound, but not meaning difficult, just makes you think, which is prime in my opinion. Yes, overall Deseret Book can improve, but heavens whenever you see me mention an author worth reading, it doesn't matter from *where* you buy, JUST BUY!

[Sargon]

In any case what are some others insights on the divine council in biblical scholarship.

The fact that the Canaanites believed in a "divine council" of sorts, and the fact that Israel adopted and incorporated much (most?) of the Canaanite religion is pretty much a given in modern biblical scholarship.

That has been my experience anyway. I am currently reading Raphael Patai's "The Hebrew Goddess" which takes both of those propositions as obvious.

For the record, while Mark Smith's book was good, I personally much prefer the writing styles of Dever and Patai, especially the latter.

Edit to add: My preference for Patai's style could also have something to do with the fact that I may have read Smith just a bit too pre-maturely. My memories of reading his book are that it was a tough and technical read. Perhaps I am just better prepared now.

[David Waltz]

Lord Kerry!!!

My oh my, I was beginning to think my old buddy from Idaho had vanishedâ?¦nice to see that I was wrong.

As for the Divine Council, I have but one question: since the Bible (in itâ??s current state) clearly affirms the existence of a divine council, why all the drama?

Grace and peace,

David

[Rommelator]

A good question, Herr Waltz.

Hopefully our non-LDS Christian friends can chime in and say what they think.

[Sargon]

Hopefully our non-LDS Christian friends can chime in and say what they think.

Doesn't Waltz count as a non-LDS Christian friend?

[e=mc2]

Doesn't Waltz count as a non-LDS Christian friend?

A non-Member friend?!? Waltz counts as total and pure Bruh-thuh! And I mean Bruh-thuh in the lord.

[e=mc2]

Lord Kerry!!!

My oh my, I was beginning to think my old buddy from Idaho had vanishedâ?¦nice to see that I was wrong.

As for the Divine Council, I have but one question: since the Bible (in itâ??s current state) clearly affirms the existence of a divine council, why all the drama?

Grace and peace,

David

The drama is for all those who don't read the Bible as clearly as you do, and hence who argue that we Mormons are cockeyed and idiotic for pretending that any such filthy pagan doctrine ouwld contaminate the pages of such stunning and high holiness. (clear as mud? GOOD!). Good to see you too my firend. Hows the beach treating you?

[Sargon]

The drama is for all those who don't read the Bible as clearly as you do, and hence who argue that we Mormons are cockeyed and idiotic for pretending that any such filthy pagan doctrine ouwld contaminate the pages of such stunning and high holiness. (clear as mud? GOOD!). Good to see you too my firend. Hows the beach treating you?

FYI Lord Kerry,

Concerning your new youtube videos about Coe's admission, there apparantly is a 7th edition of Coe's The Maya, done in 2005. I found it on my university's library catalog. Unfortunately someone already has it checked out, but I'm going to pick up the 6th edition today. Thanks for the great heads up!!

[johnny]

Rommelator

The best evidence is Gensis 1:26. The Jewish Study Bible has a footnote at the bottom of the page that indicates that the plural construct "let us" denotes the Divine Council. Oh, that and Isaiah 6 and Psalms 89. Hopefully our non-LDS Christian friends can chime in and say what they think.

The Jewish Study Bible does not have the modern revelation of the New Testament that reveals that the â??usâ? is â??the Wordâ?. "the Word was with God" in the beginning (John 1:1).

Isaiah 6 and Psalm 89 refer to a divine council that comes AFTER the â??let usâ?. God was alone and by himself when he made the earth and created man upon it.

One God created us, not a council of gods. The Lord made the heaven of heavens with all their hosts with a command.

[David Bokovoy]

In any case what are some others insights on the divine council in biblical scholarship.

I'm convinced that the divine council of deities is the fundamental interpretive key necessary to correctly interpret most of Old Testament theology.

[Sargon]

Rommelator

The Jewish Study Bible does not have the modern revelation of the New Testament that reveals that the â??usâ? is â??the Wordâ?. "the Word was with God" in the beginning (John 1:1).

I wrote about how critics hold this type of double standard. On the one hand, they feel it perfectly acceptable to interpret ancient scripture with chronologically newer scripture, but on the other hand they deny LDS this opportunity.

http://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2008/02/...cisms-examined/

[kryoung1983]

The drama is for all those who don't read the Bible as clearly as you do, and hence who argue that we Mormons are cockeyed and idiotic for pretending that any such filthy pagan doctrine ouwld contaminate the pages of such stunning and high holiness. (clear as mud? GOOD!). Good to see you too my firend. Hows the beach treating you?

DUH. Don't you know that all mormons are ignorant and blind sheep. I mean we just don't know how to think. Forget the fact that BYU is second in the nation for those that go on to get doctorates. But any way one of my favorite lines is, 'well those early christians are just heretics' How DARE they believe as they do. lol.

[Tanyan]

Rommelator

The Jewish Study Bible does not have the modern revelation of the New Testament that reveals that the â??usâ? is â??the Wordâ?. "the Word was with God" in the beginning (John 1:1).

Isaiah 6 and Psalm 89 refer to a divine council that comes AFTER the â??let usâ?. God was alone and by himself when he made the earth and created man upon it.

One God created us, not a council of gods. The Lord made the heaven of heavens with all their hosts with a command.

Thus saith Johnny !, . In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[johnny]

Sargon

I wrote about how critics hold this type of double standard. On the one hand, they feel it perfectly acceptable to interpret ancient scripture with chronologically newer scripture, but on the other hand they deny LDS this opportunity.

I am not denying Mormonâ??s this opportunity, it not a matter of a double standard. It is a matter that modern Mormon revelation is contrary to both the OT and the NT texts.

The OT reveals â??one God created usâ? (Mal 2:10) and God was â??aloneâ? and â??by myselfâ? during creation (Isa 44:24).

The NT reveals â??God that made the worldâ? (Acts 17:24) and â??the Word was with God, and the Word was Godâ? (John 1:1)

The modern revealtion of Joseph Smith revealed "the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it."

[Sargon]

Sargon

I am not denying Mormonâ??s this opportunity, it not a matter of a double standard. It is a matter that modern Mormon revelation is contrary to both the OT and the NT texts.

The OT reveals â??one God created usâ? (Mal 2:10) and God was â??aloneâ? and â??by myselfâ? during creation (Isa 44:24).

The NT reveals â??God that made the worldâ? (Acts 17:24) and â??the Word was with God, and the Word was Godâ? (John 1:1)

The modern revealtion of Joseph Smith revealed "the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it."

Johnny,

This sort of simplistic reading of the OT just won't fly. This has been discussed innumerable times before. The OT is not a monolithic statement of theology. There ARE contradictions in it. If you want a list of prooftexts that support our position, I assure you that can be done.

Modern biblical scholarship pretty clearly has identified the FACT that the original Israelite theology was significantly altered near or around the time of the Babylonion exile. Here is one example of a top notch biblical scholar explaining this phenomena:

Raphael Patai, The Hebrew Goddess. Wayne State University Press; 3rd edition (September 1990)

http://books.google.com/books?id=VfAX_wkMM...1&ct=result

The primary literary sources pertaining to the period are contained in the Biblical canon. While undoubtedly based on ancient and oral tradition, some of it reaching back into the Mosaic period, or even as far as the patriarchal age, the Biblical accounts are preserved in relatively late reworkings and are therefore not contemporary, in a strict sense of the word, with the events they describe. Editorial revisions were especially thorough when the subject matter pertained to the non-monotheistic phases of early Hebrew religion. References felt to be offensive were toned down or abridged, and we have, of course, no way of knowing how many were excised altogether. In the narratives which deal with the subsequent period of the Hebrew monarchy, the monotheistic point of view is even more stringent, so that all references to non-monotheistic forms of popular worship are not only consistently derisive and unrelentingly condemnatory but are kept purposely in vague and general terms. (pg. 35)

[johnny]

Sargon

This sort of simplistic reading of the OT just won't fly. This has been discussed innumerable times before. The OT is not a monolithic statement of theology. There ARE contradictions in it. If you want a list of prooftexts that support our position, I assure you that can be done.

That would be great if you could provide a list of Biblical prooftexts that support the Mormon position that â??"the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it."

From my viewpoint neither the OT nor the NT support the Mormon position.

[kryoung1983]

You are taking the Bible out of any historic context? What is the historic context of the verses that you are quoting. This has been dealt with so often that it all feels quite redundant.