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Are We The Offspring Of God


Billy

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It was brought up in another thread that we are the literal offspring of God, as noted by Zakuska below.

Offspring--In biology, offspring are the product of reproduction, a new organism produced by one or more parents. (wikipedia.org)

ALL men everywhere are offspring of God.

It was clarified that this does not mean the literal physical offspring of God (except Christ) but the literal spiritual offspring of God. In other words we are all spirit brothers and sisters with each other as noted below by Urroner.

We LDSers believe that our spirits are the literal children of God the Father.

Does the Bible support this notion that we are the LITERAL spirit children of God? Or does this idea come strictly from the other LDS standard works?

Or is it possible that we are children of God by adoption after being born again?

http://www.gotquestions.org/all-God-children.html

Question: "Are we all God's children, or only Christians?"

Answer: The Bible is clear that all people are Godâ??s creation (Colossians 1:16), but that only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; John 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

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It was brought up in another thread that we are the literal offspring of God, as noted by Zakuska below.

Offspring--In biology, offspring are the product of reproduction, a new organism produced by one or more parents. (wikipedia.org)

It was clarified that this does not mean the literal physical offspring of God (except Christ) but the literal spiritual offspring of God. In other words we are all spirit brothers and sisters with each other as noted below by Urroner.

Does the Bible support this notion that we are the LITERAL spirit children of God? Or does this idea come strictly from the other LDS standard works?

Or is it possible that we are children of God by adoption after being born again?

http://www.gotquestions.org/all-God-children.html

Question: "Are we all God's children, or only Christians?"

Answer: The Bible is clear that all people are Godâ??s creation (Colossians 1:16), but that only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; John 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device.

Paul here is teaching to non-believers on Mars Hill in Athens Greece. From this it would appear that we are the literal spiritual offspring of God, good bad, indifferent, believer, or non-believer.

Glenn

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We LDS believe that our living souls are comprised of a physical body (flesh) and a spirit body. We view the following biblical passage as implicitly descriptive of the parentage of each:

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Hebrews 12:9)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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]Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device.

Paul here is teaching to non-believers on Mars Hill in Athens Greece. From this it would appear that we are the literal spiritual offspring of God, good bad, indifferent, believer, or non-believer.

Glenn

I can see your point here.

Paul is speaking to these pagan people using their terminology to get his point across. This is noted in the phrase "YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING." This is a quote from Epimenides the Cretan.

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4417.htm

" . . . For we are also His offspring: These two quotations Paul uses from Greek poets are attributed to Epimenides the Cretan [600 BC] (who Paul quotes again in Titus 1:12) and Aratus [310 BC].

Paul did not quote these men because they were prophets or because all their teaching was of God. He quoted them because these specific words reflected a Biblical truth, and by using them he could build a bridge to his pagan audience." End of quote.

Phinehas had a great post on the other thread that addresses the issue of becoming children of God by faith which I will include below, rather than trying to duplicate Phinehas's work.

# Explained.

2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

# Is according to promise.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

# Is by faith.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

# Is of God's grace.

Ezekiel 16:3-6 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all. None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born. And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

Romans 4:16-17 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

# Is through Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

These and many more teach us that it is through adoption that we become members of God's family.

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We LDS believe that our living souls are comprised of a physical body (flesh) and a spirit body. We view the following biblical passage as implicitly descriptive of the parentage of each:

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Hebrews 12:9)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hebrews 12

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

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Hebrews 12

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Your point? (In the LDS faith, and the way we interpret the scriptures, one can both be a literal spirit child of God and an adopted spiritual child of God.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Your point? (In the LDS faith, and the way we interpret the scriptures, one can both be a literal spirit child of God and an adopted spiritual child of God.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

My point is that we are children by adoption not literal spirit children of God. If you are a literal spirit child, then why is there a need for you to be spiritually adopted?

If you have a son (assuming that it is yours), would you also adopt that son?

Because you believe that you are the literal spiritual offspring of God the Father, this would also imply that you have a Mother in Heaven. Is a Mother in Heaven ever mentioned in the Bible or other standard works? If not, why not?

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If you have a son (assuming that it is yours), would you also adopt that son?

If CPS took him away, I might have to get him back again.

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My point is that we are children by adoption not literal spirit children of God. If you are a literal spirit child, then why is there a need for adoption?

If you have a son (assuming that it is yours), would you also adopt that son?

Please remember that according to Hebrews 12:9 (at least as we LDS understand it), we have two fathers--the father of our spirits, and the fathers of our flesh. Since our souls are comprised of both spirit and body, and since God is not the father of our flesh, then, for him to become fully the father of our souls (flesh and spirit), necessitates adoption.

Another way to look at this is that as a consequence of the Fall, and through sin, mankind has been alienated from the Father. We are no longer his spiritual children (not to be confused with spirit children), but the children of Satan. However, through the redemptive sacrifice of Christ, we may cast off the old man of sin, and become a new creature, and through the adoption become spiritual children of God in Christ.

There are other ways to look at this (having to do with the resurrection as well as Christ as the Groom, the Church as the bridesmaid, and those who are members considered as Christ's Children, and thus the Children of the Father through Christ the Son) but hopefully this will suffice.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Please remember that according to Hebrews 12:9 (at least as we LDS understand it), we have two fathers--the father of our spirits, and the fathers of our flesh. Since our souls are comprised of both spirit and body, and since God is not the father of our flesh, then, for him to become fully the father of our souls (flesh and spirit), necessitates adoption.

Another way to look at this is that as a consequence of the Fall, and through sin, mankind has been alienated from the Father. We are no longer his spiritual children (not to be confused with spirit children), but the children of Satan. However, through the redemptive sacrifice of Christ, we may cast off the old man of sin, and become a new creature, and through the adoption become spiritual children of God in Christ.

There are other ways to look at this (having to do with the resurrection as well as Christ as the Groom, the Church as the bridesmaid, and those who are members considered as Christ's Children, and thus the Children of the Father through Christ the Son) but hopefully this will suffice.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Help me shore up some confusion then...

If we are literal (spiritual) offspring of God the father...

Is Jesus Christ the literal spiritual offspring of God the father? If so, how are we any different than Jesus, or are we?

If Mary is the literal offspring of God the father, and Mary is the literal mother of Jesus... then that makes Jesus the product of incest?

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Help me shore up some confusion then...

If we are literal (spiritual) offspring of God the father...

Is Jesus Christ the literal spiritual offspring of God the father?

We believe that Jesus is the literal spirit offspring of God the Father.

If so, how are we any different than Jesus, or are we?

Ontologically, we are the same/different as spirit children of the Father in like manner to how we are the same/different as mortals to the mortal Christ.

In terms of heirarchy, though, we are the same/different as Christ, both in terms of the spirit and mortal worlds, as the servant is to his master, the student to his teacher, the patient to his doctor, etc.

If Mary is the literal offspring of God the father, and Mary is the literal mother of Jesus... then that makes Jesus the product of incest?

No. Heavenly Father is not the literal father of Mary in the flesh.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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The statement that we (all humans) are the litteral children of God does not make much sense in the context of religions that do not teach that men had a pre-mortal existence as a spirit - for by those doctrines the spirit of man is not eternal but has an ordinal point in time, at the formation of the zygote, where before that time the spirit did not exist and after that time it does exist. That spirit is not the litteral offspring of God, though He be its creator by virtue of creating the first man and endowing that first man with a power that creates life and made such that the power perpetuates itself from generation to generation. But the spirit's father is none other than the mortal man with a lingering smile still on his face.

However, we LDS assert that the spirits of men existed before mortal life, we existed before the first two particles of space dust stuck together to form the foundation of this Earth. We also assert that the spirit is organized intelligence, and that the intelligences are eternal. In short, you and I have always existed. The mechanics of the process by which the intelligence becomes spirit offspring is not known and has not been revealed, however it has been revealed that we are the spirit offspring of God in the same sense that you are the mortal offspring of your mortal father - again, emphasizing that we do not know the spiritual mechanism.

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I can see your point here.

Paul is speaking to these pagan people using their terminology to get his point across. This is noted in the phrase "YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING." This is a quote from Epimenides the Cretan.

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4417.htm

" . . . For we are also His offspring: These two quotations Paul uses from Greek poets are attributed to Epimenides the Cretan [600 BC] (who Paul quotes again in Titus 1:12) and Aratus [310 BC].

Actually Paul is not quoting either of those poets. He is referring to similar views expressed by those poets. It does not even seem that the "For we are his off spring" is even part of the reference. Paul reiterates that as a truth in the next verse (29) when he says "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device."

This verse make Paul's point clear. Since we are the offspring of God, we should not expect God to look like an idol made of gold, silver, stone. etc. This is because we are made in God's image.

Paul did not quote these men because they were prophets or because all their teaching was of God. He quoted them because these specific words reflected a Biblical truth, and by using them he could build a bridge to his pagan audience." End of quote.

Agreed that he was using the poets' words as a basis to illustrate a Biblical truth.

Phinehas had a great post on the other thread that addresses the issue of becoming children of God by faith which I will include below, rather than trying to duplicate Phinehas's work.

Yes we do become Children of God, sons of God through the born again process and joint-heirs with Christ of God's Kingdom.

Rom. 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Those who do not go through that born again process, who continue in unrighteousness will not attain the joint-heir status, even though all are God's creations and will become children of the devil.

Glenn

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Does the Bible support this notion that we are the LITERAL spirit children of God? Or does this idea come strictly from the other LDS standard works?

Acts 17:21

Or is it possible that we are children of God by adoption after being born again?

That is in the adoptive sense and is found in Romans 8 as I recall. LDS teach both. We all, including the heathen are the literal spirit children of God. Those who accept the Gospel become his sons and daughters in the adoptive (into His Church) sense.

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Paul tells us in Acts 17:22-29 basic nature of God and our relationship to him. Please read carefully.

" Then Paul stood in the midst of Marsâ?? hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with menâ??s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device. "

Now, may I ask, Paul, why shouldn't we think of God as gold, silver, or stone, etc? What is the logic in your statement?

I think Paul would say "We are God's offspring. We are, therefore, what he is. He is what we are. Therefore, we shouldn't think of him as anything else like gold, silver, or something created by man." That's what this scripture seems to say to me in very plain terms.

Now, if we're the offspring of God, he cannot be anything but what we are! His logic is as clear as can be. To interpret any other way is to destroy the meaning of his logic.

Further, God is not "unknown" or unknowable like the Athens thought. Many today also teach that he is unknowable, or inconceivable by nature. Does this imply that the mainstream Christian idea of God as being inconceivable or unknowable is derived from the Greek world of thought?

Lastly, Paul argues that we are God's offspring (Greek: genos!) and therefore we ought not think he is like silver, or gold. What should we think of him as then? The implication is perfectly clear. If we are his genos (Latin genus, English, "species") then we ought to think that he is basically like us in his nature. We are of the same species.

The Geneva Bible translates it "generation." Generation is a word derived from "genus." Genus has to do with origin usually in the sense of a child has his origin in his parent.

For fun, here are some other languages:

genus ergo cum simus Dei non debemus aestimare auro aut argento aut lapidi sculpturae artis et cogitationis hominis divinum esse simile (Latin)

Siendo pues linaje de Dios, no hemos de estimar la Divinidad ser semejante a oro, o a plata, o a piedra, escultura de artificio o de imaginaci

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That is in the adoptive sense and is found in Romans 8 as I recall. LDS teach both. We all, including the heathen are the literal spirit children of God. Those who accept the Gospel become his sons and daughters in the adoptive (into His Church) sense.

Here's some more info on that: John 1:12-13; D&C 76:23:24; Romans 8:13-18; Galatians 4:4-7; 1 Peter 1:3 1 John 2:29-3:2

Bruce R. McConkie: Those who are born of God are adopted â??into the family of Elohim. They become his adopted sons so that they can receive, inherit, and possess along with his natural Son...We are adopted into the family of the Father; we are adopted his sons, appointed to inherit along with his natural Sonâ? (Promised Messiah, pp. 355, 357)

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Does the Bible support this notion that we are the LITERAL spirit children of God? Or does this idea come strictly from the other LDS standard works?
Others have shown that it is biblical (in spite of which, you continue to discount it).
Or is it possible that we are children of God by adoption after being born again?
Other have shown that this, too, is the LDS position.
Question: "Are we all God's children, or only Christians?"

Answer: The Bible is clear that all people are Godâ??s creation (Colossians 1:16), but that only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; John 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

Here's the part others here have not explicitly touched on:

We are, literally, the offspring of God, but we have divorced ourselves from Him through sin. It was not His act that separated us, we did that. Now, as orphans of a sort, are we to have any Father whatsoever, it must be by adoption. The legal separation must be remedied by a legal bond.

Furthermore, we become the adopted children, not of God (the Father), but of the Son. Then, as members of His family, and newly worthy (through the Atonement), we are suited to becoming, once again, the sons and daughters of God, the Father.

Yes, we are, literally the spiritual offspring of God. One of your own commenters noticed that the Greek poet was correct, and that Paul's use of his words was an affirmation of the Fatherhood of God.

" . . . For we are also His offspring: These two quotations Paul uses from Greek poets are attributed to Epimenides the Cretan [600 BC] (who Paul quotes again in Titus 1:12) and Aratus [310 BC].

Paul did not quote these men because they were prophets or because all their teaching was of God. He quoted them because these specific words reflected a Biblical truth, and by using them he could build a bridge to his pagan audience."

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device.

Notice that Paul did not make a vague allusion to the concept, but quoted it, then re-affirmed the words. We are, he said, the offspring of God, and because we are, our vision of God ought to reject all the nonsense of graven images and idols.

Those arts Paul calls "man's device" include philosophy, so we, by Paul's own logic, must reject the nonsense of a massless, amorphous being whose offspring we could not be. How much vain effort has gone into denying the biblical truth that man is in God's image, i.e., He looks like us? He has a Son who looks so much like us that His enemies had to hire a traitor to identify Him in a small crowd.

He calls Himself our Father. His Son called Him our Father. His servants, the prophets, have called Him our Father; explicitly the "Father of spirits".

Why is it so hard to accept what the Bible says?

Lehi

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It was brought up in another thread that we are the literal offspring of God, as noted by Zakuska below.

Offspring--In biology, offspring are the product of reproduction, a new organism produced by one or more parents. (wikipedia.org)

It was clarified that this does not mean the literal physical offspring of God (except Christ) but the literal spiritual offspring of God. In other words we are all spirit brothers and sisters with each other as noted below by Urroner.

Does the Bible support this notion that we are the LITERAL spirit children of God? Or does this idea come strictly from the other LDS standard works?

Or is it possible that we are children of God by adoption after being born again?

http://www.gotquestions.org/all-God-children.html

Question: "Are we all God's children, or only Christians?"

Answer: The Bible is clear that all people are Godâ??s creation (Colossians 1:16), but that only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; John 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

We as LDS must rely upon modern revelation as well as the ancient. We have been taught that we are the literal offspring of God. Also I see nothing dubious about this scripture: Acts 17:27,28,29--

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and manâ??s device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

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We are, literally, the offspring of God, but we have divorced ourselves from Him through sin. It was not His act that separated us, we did that. Now, as orphans of a sort, are we to have any Father whatsoever, it must be by adoption. The legal separation must be remedied by a legal bond.

I would agree that our sin separates us from God but,

Per LDS point of view, is their a time when you ARE NOT a literal spirit child of God, despite your actions?

If a child runs away from home because he does not want to keep your rules, is he no longer your child. When he comes home isn't he still your literal son?

Furthermore, we become the adopted children, not of God (the Father), but of the Son. Then, as members of His family, and newly worthy (through the Atonement), we are suited to becoming, once again, the sons and daughters of God, the Father.

Lehi

So we are all 3 at the same time if we are believers?

1. Literal spirit children of God the Father

2. Adopted spirit children of God the Father

3. Adopted spirit children of Jesus Christ

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I would agree that our sin separates us from God but,

Per LDS point of view, is their a time when you ARE NOT a literal spirit child of God, despite your actions?

No, there is not. We are always His literal, spiritual children.
If a child runs away from home because he does not want to keep your rules, is he no longer your child. When he comes home isn't he still your literal son?
Yes, but he may have taken legal action to void the relationship, irrespective of his DNA.
So we are all 3 at the same time if we are believers?

1. Literal spirit children of God the Father

2. Adopted spirit children of God the Father

3. Adopted spirit children of Jesus Christ

Yes, although I'd reverse 2 and 3 to keep it chronologically correct.

Lehi

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Billy missed a big portion of what the scripture is saying... It is speaking of Literal Reproductive DNA filled blood lines.

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

And who started that blood line?

Luke seems to know the answer...

Luke 3

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,

25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,

26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

...

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

So did Mikey!

creation.jpg

Creation of Adam

(Genesis 1: 26-27)

"God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him" (Genesis 1: 27).

The focal point of the episode of the Creation of man is the contact between the fingers of the Creator and those of Adam, through which the breath of life is transmitted. God, supported by angels in flight and wrapped in a mantle, leans towards Adam, shown as a resting athlete, whose beauty seems to confirm the words of the Old Testament, according to which man was created to the image and likeness of God.

http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/x-Schede/C...StCentr_06.html

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Billy missed a big portion of what the scripture is saying... It is speaking of Literal Reproductive DNA filled blood lines.

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

And who started that blood line?

Luke seems to know the answer...

25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,

26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

...

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

So are you saying that Adam is a literal physical offspring in addition to being a spiritual offspring?

"Enos, which was the son of Seth," Enos is the literal physical offspring of Seth

"Seth, which was the son of Adam," Seth is the literal physical offspring of Adam

"Adam,which was the son of God." Adam is the literal physical offspring of God and one of his wives?

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LeSellers,

We are, literally, the offspring of God, but we have divorced ourselves from Him through sin. It was not His act that separated us, we did that. Now, as orphans of a sort, are we to have any Father whatsoever, it must be by adoption. The legal separation must be remedied by a legal bond.

We are NOT the literal offspring of God. God is the Father of all things. The Lord formed the spirit of man within him (Zech 12:1). God has made the soul, the Spirit of God has made us, and the breath of the Almighty has given us life.

Those arts Paul calls "man's device" include philosophy, so we, by Paul's own logic, must reject the nonsense of a massless, amorphous being whose offspring we could not be. How much vain effort has gone into denying the biblical truth that man is in God's image, i.e., He looks like us? He has a Son who looks so much like us that His enemies had to hire a traitor to identify Him in a small crowd.

Man is made in "our image". God was manifest in the flesh. Christ is the image of the invisible God.

He calls Himself our Father. His Son called Him our Father. His servants, the prophets, have called Him our Father; explicitly the "Father of spirits".

He is the Father of all things, by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth. He created the whales and ever living creature. Men are a creature. God created man.

Why is it so hard to accept what the Bible says?

Do you accept Zech 12:1, it says:

Zech.12

[1] The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

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Im not saying it ... Luke says it...

the greek word used there says Adam is Gods genos (son).

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...;version=KJV#38

Sorry no greek Font:

"TOV EVWS TOV ON0 TOV ASAU TOV Theo"

1 and 2 are a restatement of your beliefs, if I did not restate them correctly, then please correct me.

1. Adam is a spiritual child of God.

2. Adam is a physical child of God.

This would necessitate two births from his Mother in Heaven. The first as a spiritual child, then at a later point in time as a physical child. Any ideas of how this would work? Can a Mother in heaven give birth to a spiritual person, then a physical person?

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