It occurs to me . . . Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 The mods agree that this is not a place for insincere so-called doubting members.That's an interesting way to put it. So you are saying that it is a place for sincere so-called doubting members? And that since you asked her to move to the other board that she wasn't one??? This is getting confusing!
Deborah Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 By the way, if you are interested at all in my journey, I taught Sunday School again yesterday and continue to make efforts to resolve my concerns. Indeed, Wade Englund came by MDB where I began posting after this latest suspension and offered some very good counsel, which I am in the process of applying. Troll, I am not. Sincerely questioning active member of the HP Group who cannot figure out whether JS was being truthful about the processes surrounding the BoA, I am. Banned, I probably will be. I would suggest if you are sincerely seeking answers that you not start making accusations about the prophet lying and then try to get others to see it the same way as you do. There is much we do not know about the details of what actually happened at that time and to call a person a liar simply because we don't know is just wrong, and since the original source was lost we may never know. Why believe the worst? I accept the Book of Abraham for what it is simply because of what it says and the great doctrine found therein and the power of the spirit I feel when I read it; therefore whatever the details of its origins it is from God. Why does it matter how?
juliann Posted October 23, 2007 Author Posted October 23, 2007 That's an interesting way to put it. So you are saying that it is a place for sincere so-called doubting members? And that since you asked her to move to the other board that she wasn't one??? This is getting confusing!Didn't Momus say they were going to be sent to LDS Forums? See, they listened to the countermo prayers and will stop letting them stay on this board to be assaulted! The invocation of my name is powerful and effective! God bless the countermos for caring so much that they are willing to sacrifice the doubting members to a board that they will not be allowed on at all just to insure that they are treated in the most loving manner possible by TBMs. Hallelujah, they will be rewarded for their charity!
Skylla Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 That's an interesting way to put it. So you are saying that it is a place for sincere so-called doubting members? And that since you asked her to move to the other board that she wasn't one??? This is getting confusing!I didn't ask anyone to move to the other board. We expect the guideline below to be followed:Do be genuine. People come here to discuss things that are sacred or important to them. Pretending to be someone you are not, or pretending to have beliefs and opinions that are not yours in order to get a reaction or play with others is considered trolling and will not be tolerated. Those who pretend to be doubting members are violating that guideline. Rule abiding, actual doubting members are welcome to participate here in the types of discussions intended for this board. Those seeking fellowship have been encouraged to visit ldsforums.com.Moderator and Administration actions are considered final word on a subject. Arguing with the moderators and/or any attempts to circumvent moderator actions are forbidden (creating multiple identities to avoid suspensions, cross-posting, etc.) This is a free idea zone not a free speech zone. Moderators are volunteering their time and their editing and moderating will be affected by available time and board volume. Her Highness (Juliann)
mms Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I would suggest if you are sincerely seeking answers that you not start making accusations about the prophet lying and then try to get others to see it the same way as you do. There is much we do not know about the details of what actually happened at that time and to call a person a liar simply because we don't know is just wrong, and since the original source was lost we may never know. Why believe the worst? I accept the Book of Abraham for what it is simply because of what it says and the great doctrine found therein and the power of the spirit I feel when I read it; therefore whatever the details of its origins it is from God. Why does it matter how?I hope you are not suggesting that I have actually done this, and are simply recommending that I not do this. If, in fact, you think I have done this, please read my post again carefully. I have not accused the prophet of anything and have not tried to get anyone to see anything any way.
alter idem Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I don't know about the rest of you, but I wish we could get back to the topic of discussion and not derail the thread. MMS is back from suspension; If we could put away the pitchforks and allow him/her a chance to read the topic, maybe we could get another viewpoint that might help move the discussion along.
Deborah Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I hope you are not suggesting that I have actually done this, and are simply recommending that I not do this. If, in fact, you think I have done this, please read my post again carefully. I have not accused the prophet of anything and have not tried to get anyone to see anything any way.If I misinterpreted your statement "Sincerely questioning active member of the HP Group who cannot figure out whether JS was being truthful about the processes surrounding the BoA...." I apologize. If one is questioning whether the prophet is truthful then the implication is that he was lying.
Severian Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 See, they listened to the countermo prayers and will stop letting them stay on this board to be assaulted! The invocation of my name is powerful and effective! God bless the countermos for caring so much that they are willing to sacrifice the doubting members to a board that they will not be allowed on at all just to insure that they are treated in the most loving manner possible by TBMs. Hallelujah, they will be rewarded for their charity! We should never underestimate the importance of faith, hope and charity. Especially Charity and possibly Garden Girl, Katherine the Great, Morningstar and Koakaipo. BTW, I an wondering about the meaning of the word countermo. Is a countermo anyone that disagrees with you? Could Juliann herself be a countermo to someone else?
mms Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 If I misinterpreted your statement "Sincerely questioning active member of the HP Group who cannot figure out whether JS was being truthful about the processes surrounding the BoA...." I apologize. If one is questioning whether the prophet is truthful then the implication is that he was lying.Umm. Try a logic class. The best you can do in trying to make me look like the evil troll you want me to be is to say that my statement leaves open the possibility that JS was not entirely truthful regarding what he was doing with the BoA (and even if he was not, that still leaves open the question of whether he was intentionally not truthful or unwittingly not truthful). Your statement that I have bolded, above, is so transparently fallacious that pointing it out seems to be too much, but for your sake, I will. Simply raising a question does not imply an answer. I in no way implied, as you stated, that JS was lying. As an aside, I believe that apologist(s) on this particular issue have even allowed for the possibility that JS was not actually doing what he said he was doing with the BoA (i.e., being unwittingly not truthful re what he was doing). Best,mms
LifeOnaPlate Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Rather than paying attention to accusations, etc. why not just simply, briefly, succinctly state your opinion and let the matter rest? Something like "No, I don't think he was lying," or "yes I think he was lying, but not maliciously," or "yes he was a damned liar!" Thus, no need to get mad at juliann or deborah? if you think she was rude or logically flawed. Just clear it up immediately by stating your true position. I have found that replying in kind with words like "Umm" and suggesting people go to a "logic class" aren't really conducive to a happifying conversation. For example, earlier today I suggested someone read an article before they comment on it, they then said they had read the article. This was rude of me, and I should have been more respectful to the poster.
selek Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Rather than paying attention to accusations, etc. why not just simply, briefly, succinctly state your opinion and let the matter rest? Something like "No, I don't think he was lying," or "yes I think he was lying, but not maliciously," or "yes he was a damned liar!" Thus, no need to get mad at juliann if you think she was rude or logically flawed. Just clear it up immediately by stating your true position. Actually, that would have been Deborah, but one Juliann looks very much like another when they're all using the same message board skin.
mms Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Rather than paying attention to accusations, etc. why not just simply, briefly, succinctly state your opinion and let the matter rest? Something like "No, I don't think he was lying," or "yes I think he was lying, but not maliciously," or "yes he was a damned liar!" Thus, no need to get mad at juliann or deborah? if you think she was rude or logically flawed. Just clear it up immediately by stating your true position. I have found that replying in kind with words like "Umm" and suggesting people go to a "logic class" aren't really conducive to a happifying conversation. For example, earlier today I suggested someone read an article before they comment on it, they then said they had read the article. This was rude of me, and I should have been more respectful to the poster.Do you have any thoughts for Deborah, or Selek, or Pahoran, or etc. etc. etc. or are they reserved for how I should conduct myself on the board? Like, for example, you might say:"Deborah, it is obvious that he did not call JS a liar, so why the accusations? Why not simply let what he said stand without trying to spin his comment, when his words did not imply anything? Why be so defensive?"or"Selek, why say he will spend an eternity in hell? Why not simply tell him you disagree with his position?"or"Pahoran, why such harsh terms? You are an articulate guy, why not make the point and leave out the flames?"No. Not going to happen. lifeonaplate, you, for whatever reason, seem to have given up hope that these folks can rise to the occasion, but appear to think that there might be hope for me. Thanks for your optimism as it regards me, but some objectivity could go a long way for those reading and rolling their eyes. I will try to improve.
LifeOnaPlate Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Do you have any thoughts for Deborah, or Selek, or Pahoran, or etc. etc. etc. or are they reserved for how I should conduct myself on the board? Indeed, an apt point, see comments below.Like, for example, you might say:"Deborah, it is obvious that he did not call JS a liar, so why the accusations? Why not simply let what he said stand without trying to spin his comment, when his words did not imply anything? Why be so defensive?"It's easier for me to hear deb's voice, as I've met her in person and she was downright delightful and kind. Perhaps this is one reason I've overlooked things here. "Selek, why say he will spend an eternity in hell? Why not simply tell him you disagree with his position?"I've also met selek, believe it or not. I've been looking for a really nice way to say "just be kinder," but I am somewhat of a chicken at calling him on the carpet. He might attack me! or"Pahoran, why such harsh terms? You are an articulate guy, why not make the point and leave out the flames?"Pahoran often reminds me more of Moroni's slash and burn letter more than Pahoran's kindly response in the BoM. I think he'd add a lot more to the convo by toning it down more, but Pahoran has a style all his own. I usually agree with his points, even if I disagree with his way of putting them. Maybe I'll give him a little nudge next time he gets snippy I'm not trying to mod everyone, I have picked my battles. lifeonaplate, you, for whatever reason, seem to have given up hope that these folks can rise to the occasion, but appear to think that there might be hope for me.Somewhat; I tend to seek out the offended more than the offender, as my reactions to you have suggested. It seems to be much easier for people to learn to "grin and bear it" than it is to get people to tone it down. Thanks for your optimism as it regards me, but some objectivity could go a long way for those reading and rolling their eyes. I will try to improve.I really do have optimism that you can come to ignore any snide remarks and keep things civil as far as is in your power. We can all improve.
selek Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I've also met selek, believe it or not. I've been looking for a really nice way to say "just be kinder," but I am somewhat of a chicken at calling him on the carpet. He might attack me! LOaP, Short of committing an unprovoked and nearly inarticulate slander of the brethren or the Church, the very worst you have to fear from me is being taken off the "cookie list", a fate I reserve only for the most unrepetant of reprobates.Speaking of which, I will likely be in your neck of the woods late tomorrow making deliveries- I just have to decide what I want to bake.I've already promised several ladies in that area oatmeal cookies. Any suggestions or requests?
Doctor Steuss Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I've already promised several ladies in that area oatmeal cookies. Any suggestions or requests?I would like to request one.Lady.
Deborah Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Umm. Try a logic class. The best you can do in trying to make me look like the evil troll you want me to be is to say that my statement leaves open the possibility that JS was not entirely truthful regarding what he was doing with the BoA (and even if he was not, that still leaves open the question of whether he was intentionally not truthful or unwittingly not truthful). Excuse me but I simply said that the implication is___ based on your exact words....I just think that you might simply say you question the origins of the BOA, which scholars do because they don't have the full history or the original source, rather than making a point of saying you question Joseph's truthfulness on the issue. He may have been fully truthful and we simply are lacking full information and therefore can't say with certainty what the source is. Why imply the worse because of some confusion about the source; that by the way is directed at all those who lose their testimonies because of some issue for which assumptions are made due to lack of full knowledge. I don't know why you got so upset. I said I apologized if I misinterpreted your actual words and you somehow think it's a fault in logic. I think you get offended too easily.
LifeOnaPlate Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Ooooh! Cookies indeed. Centerville is where I be. I'm going up to find B.H. Roberts' grave soon.FWIW, mms, I think you've been really sensitive, too. Again, the best thing to do is let any insults- real or imagined- slip away; or report to the mods.
selek Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I would like to request one.Lady.Ummmm......Doc, unless we're talking about gingerbread in a skirt, I'm not going to be able to help you there. I can't even hold on to the ones I want.I also have two questions: First, aren't you already married, and second, if you're looking that desperately, aren't there a couple thousand dancing girls down in Vegas?
LifeOnaPlate Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Dr.- i need your address so I can get the books back to you.
mms Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Short of committing an unprovoked and nearly inarticulate slander of the brethren or the Church, the very worst you have to fear from me is being taken off the "cookie list", a fate I reserve only for the most unrepetant of reprobates.Since you raised the unrepentant, Selek, I thought I would mention that I remain available for you to complete your restitution for your comment that I will spend an eternity in hell. Since the comment was made publicly, it may be that restitution would require a public apology, but I am not picky, so a PM will be fine. Let the record reflect that the opportunity was yours. BTW, if by reprobate, you mean the following, "a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation" (see Dictionary.com), you might want to refrain from suggesting that any here are such, considering it would be usurping the role of your maker and judge and as far as everyone here is (or should be) concerned, there is hope for all. Best,mms
LifeOnaPlate Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Also, if he doesn't ever say he's sorry, etc. it is still your duty to forgive him. The sooner the better, I say! Have you ever read my blog, mms? I'd appreciate your thoughts on any of the posts!
Doctor Steuss Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Ummmm......Doc, unless we're talking about gingerbread in a skirt, I'm not going to be able to help you there. I can't even hold on to the ones I want.You have outlived your use. You are now on ignore.I also have two questions: First, aren't you already married, and second, if you're looking that desperately, aren't there a couple thousand dancing girls down in Vegas? 1) No.2) Yes.3) Perhaps I've got 1 and 2 mixed up though...Dr.- i need your address so I can get the books back to you.PM on its wayâ?¦ maybe.And thus, I have successfully participated in another thread derailment. Suh-weet!
mms Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Also, if he doesn't ever say he's sorry, etc. it is still your duty to forgive him. The sooner the better, I say! Have you ever read my blog, mms? I'd appreciate your thoughts on any of the posts! I forgave immediately in the same thread. I will check out your blog. I have found, lifeonaplate, that you seem to be a bit equivocal on whether you want to join the ranks of the sarcastic and bombastic or take a more effective approach. It seems of late that you hae decided on the latter. Glad to see it. I will work on doing the same. No. Really. I will.
Deborah Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 It's easier for me to hear deb's voice, as I've met her in person and she was downright delightful and kind. Perhaps this is one reason I've overlooked things here. Why thank you, Life. Like I said on another thread it's harder to say negative things about people you've met face to face. Looking forward to seeing you all next year.
selek Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 BTW, if by reprobate, you mean the following, "a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation" (see Dictionary.com), you might want to refrain from suggesting that any here are such, considering it would be usurping the role of your maker and judge and as far as everyone here is (or should be) concerned, there is hope for all. mms, the cap on the tube of Preparation H is intended to come off before you apply the cream...you want what's inside, not the whole tube. You might find life a little more comfortable if you heed this advice (hey, there's a first time for everything).Second, my comment was wholly tongue-in-cheek and was directed toward LOAP, not yourself. Third, I have I usurped no authority that is not mine, nor did I call anyone a reprobate. I do think your knee-jerk reaction to associate your name with that charge is extremely telling, however.Here are the facts- You were permitted to return after your suspension for misbehavior. Instead of making the most of that opportunity, you have simply gone on the attack- criticizing others and exploiting every chance to bemoan your fate and proclaim yourself a victim.I and others am not buying it- and believe it or not, posts can be made on these boards that have nothing to do with you.Flaunt your greivances elsewhere- I'm not here to listen to you cry into your beer.
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