MADB As Part Of Deconversion Narrative

[Dale]

If the person is on an Ex-Mormon board, but coming here pretending looking for answer's that look's suspicious. That sound's like they are coming to the MADB board looking for conflict's with MADB participants. That way they can go back to the other board and share their own complaint's about the bad MADB experiences they had. Going to another board and complaining about someone on the MADB board suggests a character flaw.

[John Williams]

I just did a search on the other board for the keyword "Juliann." 2028 posts spanning 97 pages from October 27, 2006, to today's date. I don't think Juliann is in any danger of losing her importance there.

I hope someone will tell Juliann, as she has me on Ignore.

[selek]

I just did a search on the other board for the keyword "Juliann." 2028 posts spanning 97 pages from October 27, 2006, to today's date. I don't think Juliann is in any danger of losing her importance there.

I hope someone will tell Juliann, as she has me on Ignore.

I'm sorry......did you say something......?

[Dale]

Is Juliann a participant on the other board, or just a target? It's possible to not ever participate on a board, but have person's run over there to attack you.

[alter idem]

I like you Alter,

Thanks juliann, I like you too.

I may not agree with your methods or delivery, but I usually agree with your position and admire your passion and loyalty to the faith.

I think it's your zeal that has earned you "top billing" at MD.

If I misunderstood FAIR's purpose, then it's my own mistake--the assumptions I've made about the message board were my own observations and did not come from anyone else. I guess I did not understand that the message board portion was never for those who were struggling in the faith.

[juliann]

Is Juliann a participant on the other board, or just a target? It's possible to not ever participate on a board, but have person's run over there to attack you.

That is pretty much all they do there... last I looked anyway. A significant number of threads were about us. I don't like the obscenity and hatespeech there. I would never post there, yeck. But don't think of me as a target, think of me as an integral part of their emerging rituals. Perhaps it is their version of an altar call...or a sacrament of sorts where they all take a bite of our cyberflesh. Whatever it is, it is obviously critical to their sense of well being.

If I misunderstood FAIR's purpose, then it's my own mistake--the assumptions I've made about the message board were my own observations and did not come from anyone else. I guess I did not understand that the message board portion was never for those who were struggling in the faith.

I don't think it is something that you came up with although you may not be aware of it. Along with the invocation of names it is important to create a sacred history, so to speak. The countermos obviously have a great attachment to this board and need to have a story about it. The story is then followed by the Exmo Exodus story where they end up in the promised MBD land. They just can't forget their old home, however...even though they have many stories of horrid abuse at the hands of the rulers It will probably take another generation before they can forget us and accept their promised land as their true home. Meanwhile, we will hear many stories about the wicked nature and apostasy of FAIR/MADB from its true mission, a board for them to attack Mormons. We should have a creed soon.

[Dale]

FAIR only offered the message board as a service. They continued it a long time because lot's of person's used it. Over time they decided they decided to turn the board over to private control. Eventually they will eliminate the message board section of it's website. The board has been a curse and a blessing for participants and FAIR over the year's. MADB is no longer a service of FAIR.

I never thought the board concept was geared toward's helping struggling member's. I saw the board as a place of debate. The FAIR Fellowship area was the best area for such person's to get help. The LDS Dialogue and Discussion area was for exactly for what it say's. If they wanted to set up an area for helping struggling LDS member's they would have set up one.

[John Williams]

That is pretty much all they do there... last I looked anyway. A significant number of threads were about us. I don't like the obscenity and hatespeech there. I would never post there, yeck. But don't think of me as a target, think of me as an integral part of their emerging rituals. Perhaps it is their version of an altar call...or a sacrament of sorts where they all take a bite of our cyberflesh. Whatever it is, it is obviously critical to their sense of well being.

I don't think it is something that you came up with although you may not be aware of it. Along with the invocation of names it is important to create a sacred history, so to speak. The countermos obviously have a great attachment to this board and need to have a story about it. The story is then followed by the Exmo Exodus story where they end up in the promised MBD land. They just can't forget their old home, however...even though they have many stories of horrid abuse at the hands of the rulers It will probably take another generation before they can forget us and accept their promised land as their true home. Meanwhile, we will hear many stories about the wicked nature and apostasy of FAIR/MADB from its true mission, a board for them to attack Mormons. We should have a creed soon.

Juliann, let my people go!!

Actually, I think it's pretty simple.

People over there don't like certain people here and post about them.

People over here get angry and mock the people over there.

People over there get angry and mock the people over here.

And the cycle continues ...

Nothing particularly ritualistic. Just a lot of people who don't care for one another. Which is a shame because there are good people on both boards, but way too much personal animus both ways.

[Skylla]

Yes, she was also counseled that perhaps a different board would be more conducive to her situation.

. . . so apparently the MODS also agree that this is not the best place for doubting members.

The mods agree that this is not a place for insincere so-called doubting members.

[HiJolly]

The mods agree that this is not a place for insincere so-called doubting members.

Uh-oh. Skylla used the 'so-called' label. Uh-oh.

HiJolly

[Skylla]

Indeed. The original poster in this thread has turned sneering at kettles into an art form. Never mind that she's treading on other people's religious experiences, which is utterly opposed to the alleged ideological basis of this forum.

This is not going to be tolerated. Knock it off.

I hardly come here to snarl. I come here to have respectful, two-way discussions. Your sneeringly condescending "this is my board and I can hate whoever I want to" attitude makes that awfully difficult, especially when it's backed by moderator enforcement. If this board is your personal ex-mo-hater playground, you can have it. I'll be on MDB if anyone wants to have a real discussion.

You came to snarl at Juliann. See your previous quote above. She is discussing behavior on general terms and didn't name names.

Hate is hate, and attacks are attacks, no matter which side they come from.

You have a serious problem here if you consider Chris Smith a bashing, angry countermo.

Keep your personal commentary to yourself.

You seem to have a personal and acrimonious history with almost every poster on MDB, so it shouldn't surprise you that your name comes up frequently. What is interesting is the idea that the issue rests with everyone else, not you.

Starting now, you have for me.

You are one post away from being banned. You were kindly given a second chance on this board and you will not be given a third.

Skylla

[juliann]

You are one post away from being banned. You were kindly given a second chance on this board and you will not be given a third.

Oh, oh....the evil me Pharoah showed up. She will demand that they add more straw in the bricks they throw. They will suffer. What a great addition for their sacred history!

[mms]

I would have contributed sooner, but I jut came off suspension (about one hour ago). I was supended on the day that Selek said this to me:

"You'll have all eternity in hell to ponder the number of innocent windmills you accosted."

I still have no idea what he is talking about and, for the fourth time, invite him to explain.

Regardless, in this thread, knowing I could not respond, he called me a "spoiler[] and wrecker[]". I invite him to explain this comment with references, also.

Above, Juliann stated that most of those who post here as questioning or doubting members "don't stick around." It could be that they do not stick around because they are not permitted to stick around. I assume, based on what I have observed and how I have been treated, that I will not last much longer (still do not understand why).

So, having been labeled a spoiler and wrecker who will spend an eternity in hell, I gather that my thoughts on the matter at hand will be of little value, but such has not stopped me before.

Re the OP, it is very difficult to come here as a sincerely questioning member (as I am) and encounter the angry defenders here (they know who they are). Indeed, already vulnerable from encounters with facts causing doubt and concern, we are then slapped upside the head by some of those we thought might lend a helping hand. It is very difficult to see past the aggressive posts of the attackers. It is understandable to me, considering my experience and feeling on the matter, that when someone does ultimately leave the fold, he or she may see his or her experience here as just one more of the nails in the coffin housing his or her testimony. It is not necessarily rational, but it is understandable.

I admit, I should have spent more time here prior to posting. I would have seen that certain very vocal and apparently influential people are not interested in anything but being "right" as they define it, and when faced with disagreement, call names and make [final] judgments. Some moderators seem to help out these "apologists" the best they can by calculated suspensions.

It's your board, so do what you need to do. But calling the more and more common exit narrative pointed out in the OP a conspiracy by trolls is little more than a way of reducing the conflict some must feel over their role in people finding the exits.

By the way, if you are interested at all in my journey, I taught Sunday School again yesterday and continue to make efforts to resolve my concerns. Indeed, Wade Englund came by MDB where I began posting after this latest suspension and offered some very good counsel, which I am in the process of applying. Troll, I am not. Sincerely questioning active member of the HP Group who cannot figure out whether JS was being truthful about the processes surrounding the BoA, I am. Banned, I probably will be.

Peace.

[Dunamis]

First and foremost, you are neither candid nor a newcomer. Second, no- it is not necessary to continuously toe the party line and we have room for a variety of opinions, as I stated above.

On the other hand, we have little room and far less need for your habit of being relentlessly negative, snide, condescending, sneering, arrogant, dismissive, irrelevant, snarky, and utterly devoid of any capacity to make a meaningful contribution to a rational conversation.

Your entire presence on this board has been a sanctimonious sneer and criticism. You've contributed nothing to further the conversation, merely snarked at the faithful and patted yourself on the back for your wit. Your potshots and arrogance are counter-productive- whether the goal is strengthening the faithful, comforting the afflicted, or merely intelligent conversation.

When you start contributing, let me know. So far I am astoundingly underwhelmed.

I think you just revealed (how ever unintentionally) the true rationale for your presence here- and for the existence of Shade's board, and RFM, and the Ex-Mo Whining Chorus, and the tin-foil hat brigades.

It's about you feeling better- not about anything meaningful to anyone beyond your own skin.

Thank you for the revelation- it is quite enlightening.

Oh....one more thing. Your histrionics can't disguise the fact that you still haven't answered multiple CFR's or retracted your earlier assertion.

Why not?

All righty people. Lets knock off all the Personal Attacks. This whole thread just started going down hill with all the neener neener chest thumping of who hates who and why. Well personally I could care less. Clean it up now. We are up front about the ground rules. We are upfront about the purpose of this board. We heard many complaints about this board not being able to cater to the sincere poster looking for help with issues they just encountered. This is exactly way we have partnered up with Ldsforums.com. The problem is we don't see you guys using it as it should be or pointing new users over there.

Also on a side note. This board makes it perfectly clear that we can discuss countermo's here. The main problem is we have the countermo's rallying the troops to come into these threads and make them personal. They do not start that way however the some how end up that way. If you don't want to get dinged for anything then stop making it personal. The people that have done that are going to take a short break.

Dunamis

Ruler Supreme of the Juliann's

[Dunamis]

Some moderators seem to help out these "apologists" the best they can by calculated suspensions.

And this is a good way to get back on the Mods graces. Lets see why where you suspended? Could it have been because you attacked a public figure and his calling openly and shamefully on this board? No it wasn't that it must be us mods making the story up. You must also think in your head that saying things like that are ok to say here? It's mind boggling really.

Well I just pulled up the post in question. This is what got you suspended or did the mods some how forces you to type this? Or is this just something us mean old mods cooked up to defend an apologist?

Isn't it the case that she is free to disregard her Bishop's counsel, and even go about disseminating FAIRwiki articles about JS's polygamy and reject his counsel to the contrary, even if such dissemination sewes seeds of doubt among the ward members, without consequence? After all, the Bishop was simply speaking for himself and not the church as it concerned her and her situation, right? So, if you like his (your Bishop's) advice, SD, take it. If not, feel free to disregard it, as he is not speaking to you with any authority, apparently. News to me, but since DCP is a Bishop, he would certainly know if he were actually able to counsel with the authority of the Church when speaking to ward members who come to him with questions.

If your Bishop calls you in and asks you why you ignored his counsel and have been discussing JS's polygamy with ward members and disseminating FAIRwiki articles, just give him DCP's telephone number, so that he (DCP) can counsel him on what his (your Bishop's)authority is as a Bishop (with what authority DCP would counsel your Bishop, I don't know--DCP's name-dropping notwithstanding).

Get over it. This is a prime example of why posters have problems with the mods here. Now back to your regularly scheduled meltdown.

Dunamis

Supreme Overlord of the Juliann's

btw did you report this?

"You'll have all eternity in hell to ponder the number of innocent windmills you accosted."

I looked through our reports and don't see anything there, or is that another "calculated" moderator action also.

[juliann]

Above, Juliann stated that most of those who post here as questioning or doubting members "don't stick around." It could be that they do not stick around because they are not permitted to stick around.

Unfortunately, we won't part the Red Sea to try and get people back who just want to whine and complain and attack. Our bad. But that isn't really a necessary part of the Exmo Exodus sacred story anyway.

[Dale]

Perhap's a sampling of the type of post's not welcome on the board should go up. Save a few of them. Make it required reading along with the message board rule's. Put up an hard not to see note that if the person is struggling about their faith we prefer them to go to LDSforum's.com to get help. Make such required reading before they join.

[mms]

Could it have been because you attacked a public figure and his calling openly and shamefully on this board?

Dunamis

Supreme Overlord of the Juliann's

How in the world did what I said there constitute an "attack[]" on a "public figure and his calling openly and shamefully"? Seriously, and I thought I was sensitive. Talk about not being able to stand the heat. Geez.

[Dunamis]

Perhap's a sampling of the type of post's not welcome on the board should go up. Save a few of them. Make it required reading along with the message board rule's. Put up an hard to see note that if the person is struggling about their faith we prefer them to go to LDSforum's.com to get help. Make such required reading before they join.

We got this on the intro folder.

Welcome to Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board. If you are a member of the church or looking for answers from an LDS only perspective or for a forum to discuss LDS issues with out debate. Please register on our sister site http://www.ldsforums.com. Click on this sub-forum title to be redirected to LDS Forums.

Perhaps thats what we may have to do so it won't get missed.

[mms]

I looked through our reports and don't see anything there, or is that another "calculated" moderator action also.

You apparently did not look closely enough, as I happen to know it was reported (not by me, but by someone else offended by the rendering of a final damning to hell on this board). Indeed, Selek was told to knock it off b/c it was his second offense that very morning. But he can get away with this kind of stuff and will never be suspended. Then I make the comment I did simply pointing out the error of DCP's reasoning on a rather innocuous matter and bam, I am out for two weeks. Whatever.

[juliann]

Talk about not being able to stand the heat. Geez.

Here we go again. We are obligated to take whatever is dished out by any random countermo and we are to behave as we are told. The sense of ownership and entitlement just keeps rolling on.

[Dunamis]

How in the world did what I said there constitute an "attack[]" on a "public figure and his calling openly and shamefully"? Seriously, and I thought I was sensitive. Talk about not being able to stand the heat. Geez.

Stand the heat? Are you that desensitized already? You have been given plenty of room to get your gripes in. We don't waste our time with high maintenance posters who can only be hostile to posters that are taking the time to answer their questions or give their opinions on matters brought up on this board.

Dunamis

[mms]

Here we go again. We are obligated to take whatever is dished out by any random countermo and we are to behave as we are told. The sense of ownership and entitlement just keeps rolling on.

As I stated, your board, do as you please. I doubt (to use a term) that you care what I think about the matter.

[juliann]

But he can get away with this kind of stuff and will never be suspended.

And we all know that the countermos should be lined up and given a vote before anyone makes a move here. We just can't get over the idea that this is our board. You must be so very frustrated. However, there is an irrevokable rule decreed in the heavens...when one angry demanding countermo leaves there is always another one to take his place.

[Dunamis]

You apparently did not look closely enough, as I happen to know it was reported (not by me, but by someone else offended by the rendering of a final damning to hell on this board). Indeed, Selek was told to knock it off b/c it was his second offense that very morning. But he can get away with this kind of stuff and will never be suspended. Then I make the comment I did simply pointing out the error of DCP's reasoning on a rather innocuous matter and bam, I am out for two weeks. Whatever.

Was it our token board nanny? If so didn't you know we have him on ignore. So someone else had to

report it for you huh. Anyways I'm not going to clutter this thread anymore. Anymore attempts to whine about moderation can take it to a board set up specifically for it. Heck we even had their Underwear on the Head wearing administrator troll this board.

Talk about desperate for attention,

Dunamis

ps You can't substantiate this claim. I know for a fact I have suspended selek for weeks at a time.