Revelations Mentions Only One Heaven, Not Three

[Rob Osborn]

What is interesting is that We as Mormons have been instructed to study out the book of Revelations as it is very particular to our day and age. What is interesting is that John was specifically the "one guy" who was set apart to write about our day and the revelations of how judgment would come about. All other prophets only build off of what he revealed. Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium. The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C. Now keep reading on in ch. 21. It says that in verses 7-8 that to him that overcometh will inherit all things and he shall be my son whereas the rest are the ones in the second death. Once again- only two distinct divisions of peoples. At the end of the chapter it speaks that the Lamb will be the light of the kingdom and that all the nations of the "saved" shall walk in the light of it and that no wicked person shall enter into this kingdom. In the next chapter (22), in verses 14-15 it once again affirms the position of either having access to the kingdom if you are saved or outside of the city and being damned in the second death.

So, if the Revelation of St. John the Divine is really true, all of the saved are in "one" place while the rest are in the lake of fire and brimstone. So if this is true, what should be made of Joseph's revelation of section 76? Is Revelations overuled or is section 76 wrong or unclear as to its meaning?

[selek]

What is interesting is that We as Mormons have been instructed to study out the book of Revelations as it is very particular to our day and age. What is interesting is that John was specifically the "one guy" who was set apart to write about our day and the revelations of how judgment would come about. All other prophets only build off of what he revealed. Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium. The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C. Now keep reading on in ch. 21. It says that in verses 7-8 that to him that overcometh will inherit all things and he shall be my son whereas the rest are the ones in the second death. Once again- only two distinct divisions of peoples. At the end of the chapter it speaks that the Lamb will be the light of the kingdom and that all the nations of the "saved" shall walk in the light of it and that no wicked person shall enter into this kingdom. In the next chapter (22), in verses 14-15 it once again affirms the position of either having access to the kingdom if you are saved or outside of the city and being damned in the second death.

So, if the Revelation of St. John the Divine is really true, all of the saved are in "one" place while the rest are in the lake of fire and brimstone. So if this is true, what should be made of Joseph's revelation of section 76? Is Revelations overuled or is section 76 wrong or unclear as to its meaning?

Keep in mind that Revelations is largely allegorical rather than literal. The Doctrine and Covenants are written in much less lurid prose.

If anything, your interpretation of Revelation is likely suspect because of the nature of the prose.

[structurecop]

What the **** is "Revelations"? I don't have this book in my Bible.

[Rob Osborn]

Selek,

Are you suggesting that the heaven mentioned in the cited chapters are just allegorical then? If so what do we exactly get out of them?

[Paul Ray]

Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

Our Lord said there are many "mansions" in heaven.

Try thinking of heaven as one really huge gigantic place with many different realms or regions.

I think you are thinking of heaven in a much smaller scale.

[Sargon]

Rob,

Without studying up on the reading you suggested, I would like to remind you that as a prophet Joseph Smith not only restored ancient doctrine, but introduced doctrines that were never before taught on earth. That would be consistent with the calling of a prophet.

Another quick note, all three of the kingdoms of glory could be thought of as three different heavens, or as three parts to the same heaven.

If I feel inclinded later I might dig up the scriptures you cite. But someone else will probably beat me to it.

Sargon

[The Nehor]

Selek,

Are you suggesting that the heaven mentioned in the cited chapters are just allegorical then? If so what do we exactly get out of them?

I get that heaven sorely needs me to spice things up a bit.

[Rob Osborn]

The many mansions Christ referred to meant that within the kingdom of God (celestial Kingdom) there are many places of dwelling or degrees. The point that John brings out is that all of the saved have access to this tree of life in the "one" place not three places.

[Son]

What is interesting is that We as Mormons have been instructed to study out the book of Revelations as it is very particular to our day and age. What is interesting is that John was specifically the "one guy" who was set apart to write about our day and the revelations of how judgment would come about. All other prophets only build off of what he revealed. Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium. The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C. Now keep reading on in ch. 21. It says that in verses 7-8 that to him that overcometh will inherit all things and he shall be my son whereas the rest are the ones in the second death. Once again- only two distinct divisions of peoples. At the end of the chapter it speaks that the Lamb will be the light of the kingdom and that all the nations of the "saved" shall walk in the light of it and that no wicked person shall enter into this kingdom. In the next chapter (22), in verses 14-15 it once again affirms the position of either having access to the kingdom if you are saved or outside of the city and being damned in the second death.

So, if the Revelation of St. John the Divine is really true, all of the saved are in "one" place while the rest are in the lake of fire and brimstone. So if this is true, what should be made of Joseph's revelation of section 76? Is Revelations overuled or is section 76 wrong or unclear as to its meaning?

This part of Revelation is speaking of the highest possible outcome. Overcoming all things, and receiving the Second Comforter. THe Latter Days are a time of great knowledge and wisdom, THe spirit of God will be poured out and the Saints will see the path of Perfection clearly. Overcome Sin and death will back down, salvation from death and destruction, salvation from damnation according to the sacrafice of a broken heart and contrite spirit.

The distinction of heavenly realms is not focused on, due to the highest possibility being presented.

[Paul Ray]

The many mansions Christ referred to meant that within the kingdom of God (celestial Kingdom) there are many places of dwelling or degrees.

It seems you're not quite getting what I'm trying to tell you, because you seem to equate the kingdom of God with the Celestial kingdom for some reason, or at least it appears that way with your use of parentheses.

I was trying to tell you that the kingdom of God isn't limited to only the Celestial kingdom.

In the kingdom of God there are many places and each place is part of the kingdom of God.

The point that John brings out is that all of the saved have access to this tree of life in the "one" place not three places.

That's almost true, except for your limitation on it not being three places.

There are (at least) 3 places in the kingdom of God, and all 3 places are within God's one big gigantic kingdom.

Try thinking of the universe as God's kingdom... do you know how big the universe is?

It's all one place, but there are many different regions.

[Lightbearer]

What is interesting is that We as Mormons have been instructed to study out the book of Revelations as it is very particular to our day and age. What is interesting is that John was specifically the "one guy" who was set apart to write about our day and the revelations of how judgment would come about. All other prophets only build off of what he revealed. Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium. The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C. Now keep reading on in ch. 21. It says that in verses 7-8 that to him that overcometh will inherit all things and he shall be my son whereas the rest are the ones in the second death. Once again- only two distinct divisions of peoples. At the end of the chapter it speaks that the Lamb will be the light of the kingdom and that all the nations of the "saved" shall walk in the light of it and that no wicked person shall enter into this kingdom. In the next chapter (22), in verses 14-15 it once again affirms the position of either having access to the kingdom if you are saved or outside of the city and being damned in the second death.

So, if the Revelation of St. John the Divine is really true, all of the saved are in "one" place while the rest are in the lake of fire and brimstone. So if this is true, what should be made of Joseph's revelation of section 76? Is Revelations overuled or is section 76 wrong or unclear as to its meaning?

You are going to beat this dead horse to death aren't you? We believe the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly. Read the preface to section 76:

(D&C 76) "A vision given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, February 16, 1832. HC 1: 245â??252. Prefacing his record of this vision the Prophet wrote: â??Upon my return from Amherst conference, I resumed the translation of the Scriptures. From sundry revelations which had been received, it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term â??Heaven,â?? as intended for the Saintsâ?? eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one. Accordingly, while translating St. Johnâ??s Gospel, myself and Elder Rigdon saw the following vision.â? It was after the Prophet had translated John 5: 29 that this vision was given."

So the Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial are "Kingdoms of Heaven." So in terms of what you are describing in the Revelation of John there are basically the divisions of Heaven and Hell after the Millenium, Heaven consisting of three kingdoms or "many mansions" and hell being the "lake of fire and brimstone" where those who are "filthy still" are cast along with Satan and his angels. Those who are worthy of a Telestial Kingdom must suffer for their sins in hell until they are redeemed through the resurrection and they must at that time accept the atonement of Christ or be cast out as sons of perdition. I have tried to explain this a few times but you insist on teaching this false doctrine. Either you accept Joseph Smith as a true Prophet, or you say he was not. But I say that he was a true Prophet of God and that D&C 76 was a true revelation from God and it does not disagree with the truth in the Bible, it does add much to the light and knowledge that was lost through the apostacy. If anything is unclear it is the book of Revelation not the D&C.

[selek]

Selek,

Are you suggesting that the heaven mentioned in the cited chapters are just allegorical then? If so what do we exactly get out of them?

No, I'm suggesting that your interpretation is strained and far too literal. I'm with Lightbearer on this one- your interpretations are not consistent with LDS teachings on the matter, and you are straining at a gnat (and swallowing the camel) trying to justify it.

[charity's child]

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium.

Okay, what did I miss. Where does it mention the millenium?

[jadams_4242]

What is interesting is that We as Mormons have been instructed to study out the book of Revelations as it is very particular to our day and age. What is interesting is that John was specifically the "one guy" who was set apart to write about our day and the revelations of how judgment would come about. All other prophets only build off of what he revealed. Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium. The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C. Now keep reading on in ch. 21. It says that in verses 7-8 that to him that overcometh will inherit all things and he shall be my son whereas the rest are the ones in the second death. Once again- only two distinct divisions of peoples. At the end of the chapter it speaks that the Lamb will be the light of the kingdom and that all the nations of the "saved" shall walk in the light of it and that no wicked person shall enter into this kingdom. In the next chapter (22), in verses 14-15 it once again affirms the position of either having access to the kingdom if you are saved or outside of the city and being damned in the second death.

So, if the Revelation of St. John the Divine is really true, all of the saved are in "one" place while the rest are in the lake of fire and brimstone. So if this is true, what should be made of Joseph's revelation of section 76? Is Revelations overuled or is section 76 wrong or unclear as to its meaning?

Lets not ferget about the glories of #1 the sun # 2 the moon and # 3 the other glories as numerable as the satars in the heaven? its not in revealations but this does tell of the differant glories and as this says there are a lot more than only three!

[T-Shirt]

In ch. 20:14-15 it mentions that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. This according to the previous verse happens after the millennium.

Exactly. And after the Millennium, who are those who are still dead (not resurrected)? That would be those who were the wicked who had to remain in hell during the millennium. Yet only those from among this group who were still not found in the Book of Life were cast out. Where did the rest of those, who were once wicked, go?

The book of life however is reserved only for the Celestial world peoples according to the D&C.

Could you show me these verses?

T-Shirt

[Rob Osborn]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

5 He that aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in bwhite craiment; and I will not dblot out his name out of the ebook of life, but I will fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This is the book of eternal life. eternal life or eternal death. Here is this verse describing the Celestial found in section 76-

68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.

Here is the confirmation that the book of life is for the Celestial world only, it is in section 88-

2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels arejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of cSabaoth, and are recorded in the dbook of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

So getting back to Revelations 20-

12 And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

[Paul Ray]

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

Try thinking that the lake of fire and brimstone isn't the same thing as "outer darkness".

Those who don't receive Celestial glory will be made aware of why they didn't receive it, and they will suffer, in a sense, eternally.

... yet they will also be sent to a kingdom of glory, based on the good works they did do in their lives.

The only people who will be sent into "Outer darkness" will be those who flat out rejected any type of salvation while knowing what the plan of salvation was/is all about... basically choosing to be evil, like Satan, while rejecting God.

We are here to be tested to see if we will do the will of our Father, and we will each receive our own rewards, accordingly.

[jadams_4242]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

5 He that aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in bwhite craiment; and I will not dblot out his name out of the ebook of life, but I will fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This is the book of eternal life. eternal life or eternal death. Here is this verse describing the Celestial found in section 76-

68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.

Here is the confirmation that the book of life is for the Celestial world only, it is in section 88-

2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels arejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of cSabaoth, and are recorded in the dbook of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

So getting back to Revelations 20-

12 And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

Being as you seem to be trying to interprit verses in revealation to your own liking, how do you interprit all the other verses in the bible that tell of a number of differant heavens?

[grego]

All other prophets only build off of what he revealed.

I don't think so.

-=-=-=

Particular to the book of Revelations is the teaching of "only" one heaven and not three.

If the teaching is of only one heaven and not three, then it's not particular to the book of Revelation. Search "celestial kingdom" in the BoM. However, just because it doesn't mention something, doesn't mean it's not there.

-=-=-=

JS had a vision he recorded--he didn't just "write something". Then in the Bible, there was Paul, who was caught up to the third heaven; and references (as Pa Pa mentioned) to three degrees of glory.

[structurecop]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

So getting back to Revelations 20-

What is this "Revelations" to which you keep referring?

[T-Shirt]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

I hope you will address the first part of my post above? What happens to the wicked who are resurrected after the millennium but are not cast into the lake of fire?

5 He that aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in bwhite craiment; and I will not dblot out his name out of the ebook of life, but I will fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Yes, it is true that Celestial beings names are written in the Book of Life, but where does it say that they are the only ones?

This is the book of eternal life. eternal life or eternal death.

These are your words.

Here is this verse describing the Celestial found in section 76-

68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.

This says nothing about the "Book of Life".

Here is the confirmation that the book of life is for the Celestial world only, it is in section 88-

2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels arejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of cSabaoth, and are recorded in the dbook of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

This doesn't say anything about the "Book of Life" either.

So getting back to Revelations 20-

12 And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And herein lies my question. Verse 15 is referring to the wicked who had to wait until after the millennium to be resurrected, and clearly, only some of them were cast into the lake of fire. Where did the rest go?

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

Joseph Smith defined the"Book of Life" in D&C 128:7. According to him, it is simply a record of our works that is kept in heaven, out of which all of us will be judged. Sons of perdition are those who have their names removed from the Book of Life.

Best to you,

T-Shirt

[Son]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

5 He that aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in bwhite craiment; and I will not dblot out his name out of the ebook of life, but I will fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This is the book of eternal life. eternal life or eternal death. Here is this verse describing the Celestial found in section 76-

68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.

Here is the confirmation that the book of life is for the Celestial world only, it is in section 88-

2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels arejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of cSabaoth, and are recorded in the dbook of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

So getting back to Revelations 20-

12 And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

As I wrote above, these promises are for those that overcome. Not for those that just lead decent lives. To all those that don't make the highest level of Celestial, everything else is fire and brimstone (regret and mourning). Damnation is where progress is halted, until the damn is broken and humble there is no progress, if ever.

[Son]

Let us speak for a moment on the "book of life". Revelations 3:5 -

5 He that aovercometh, the same shall be clothed in bwhite craiment; and I will not dblot out his name out of the ebook of life, but I will fconfess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This is the book of eternal life. eternal life or eternal death. Here is this verse describing the Celestial found in section 76-

68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.

Here is the confirmation that the book of life is for the Celestial world only, it is in section 88-

2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels arejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of cSabaoth, and are recorded in the dbook of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

So getting back to Revelations 20-

12 And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So to sum up- If you are not found numbered amongst the sanctified spotless holy beings of the Celestial world, then you are cast out into the lake of Fire and brimstone. This seems to point out the clues that section 76 is possibly misunderstood regarding the time and place events of the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds because in the end it appears that only two places exist- that of the Celestial world and that of outer darkness.

As I wrote above, these promises are for those that overcome. Not for those that just lead decent lives. To all those that don't make the highest level of Celestial, everything else is fire and brimstone (regret and mourning). Damnation is where progress is halted, until the damn is broken and humble there is no progress, if ever.

The books were opened, then another book was opened, the book of life.

The record of what was done, the record of how it is rewarded.

[consiglieri]

What the **** is "Revelations"? I don't have this book in my Bible.

Touche! I might have expected someone as erudite as you to catch that!

I remember reading a Stephen King book back in the 80's, written under his nom de plume of Richard Bachman, where a whacko teen goes to school one day loaded for bear and starts shooting people for little to no reason.

I seem to recall him offing somebody for saying the Book of Revelations.

Not suggesting that that was a good thing . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[structurecop]

Touche! I might have expected someone as erudite as you to catch that!

I remember reading a Stephen King book back in the 80's, written under his nom de plume of Richard Bachman, where a whacko teen goes to school one day loaded for bear and starts shooting people for little to no reason.

I seem to recall him offing somebody for saying the Book of Revelations.

Not suggesting that that was a good thing . . .

Oh, dear, I would never do something like that! I think persons who are not familiar with the proper (English) names for books of the Bible do a good enough job "offing" themselves from the discussion.

Do you remember the name of that book? I know in the Stephen King novella "Different Seasons" (the source for the movie Apt Pupil) a teenage boy loses his mind and starts offing bums and commuters.