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September Dawn


caesarmoridon

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I have not seen this movie and will not ever see it due to its R rating, but I have seen the trailer and read up on it. This is one of the most disgusting hit pieces I have ever seen and unlike the pathetic little video that was sent to Mormon homes this will be in major theaters. Just to give the briefest of descriptions I will site what I saw in the trailer. 1. A crazy Brigham Young played by Terence Stamp who's often overboard acting has nearly earned him a Razzy. You might recognize him from My Bosses Daughter. 2. Temple ordinances being mocked and shown in part of the cover-up of the massacre. 3. Dean Cain as Joseph Smith do I need to say more? This movie is the most biased and offensive take on this horrible event from what I have seen. Just thought I would through this out there to you scholars.

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I think just for the sake of disrupting the movie, I'll go see it.

See it, i use lightly. I'll probobly go and start laughing uncontrollably at the parts where its extreme bias/exaggeration.

Or maybe bring a cell phone and have people call me every 5 minutes.

*schemes*

:P

That will teach them! <_<

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Movies bashing Mormons will always be around. Just like movies bashing most major religions are around :P

I agree that there are many films that bash religion, but this does not make it right. Second I have no problem with a movie or documentary that may be critical, but this is much more than that. This is an open attack that doesn't even come close to being fair from a respected director and producer. If it came from the Tanners or Ed Decker it would be one thing, but when someone who is a recognized member of the film industry it makes a difference. I also placed this in here because it could become an issue with friends who might see this movie. I thought a heads up might be a good thing.

PS. Are you calling me a wacko for bring this up or are you talking about the movie?

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It'll be like a US war movie suited for Hollywood.

The US characteristically triumphs, the story ignores any sort of hostirical event that gives the opponent some credibility or reason for sympathy, the patriotic victory gives everyone a great 'America Rules! Bloody Russians! Bloody muslim!' attitude etc....

Except this movie will just villify some exceptional people. So people will just walk out of the emotional ride with a 'Let's get rid of Mormonism!' attitude. Maybe kids will start to dream of being the hero to get rid of Mormons or something.

Good old Hollywood.

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I agree that there are many films that bash religion, but this does not make it right. Second I have no problem with a movie or documentary that may be critical, but this is much more than that. This is an open attack that doesn't even come close to being fair from a respected director and producer. If it came from the Tanners or Ed Decker it would be one thing, but when someone who is a recognized member of the film industry it makes a difference. I also placed this in here because it could become an issue with friends who might see this movie. I thought a heads up might be a good thing.

PS. Are you calling me a wacko for bring this up or are you talking about the movie?

No, I'm not calling you a wacko, lol.

But put it this way, if I were a Catholic, there are so many movies (particularily in Quebec) that really knock the Catholic faith.

One movie that really sickened me towards Christian white men was a movie called "Soldier Blue". It was about the Sand Creek Massacre. Be warned, it isn't for the faint of heart and it is 'R' rated for a reason.

If you have friends that start to recoil because you are Mormon after seeeing September Dawn, introduce them to this little gem, it is actually a little more accurate and doesn't hold anything back with the rapes, decapitations, and baby-killing, which did happen at the real Sand Creek Massacre.

To quote Jack, "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Funny thng about the MMM and the SCM, they always say that the MMM was the worst civilian massacre in the west. Indians don't count. Neither do the 5000 Mormons that died on the trail.

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No, I'm not calling you a wacko, lol.

But put it this way, if I were a Catholic, there are so many movies (particularily in Quebec) that really knock the Catholic faith.

One movie that really sickened me towards Christian white men was a movie called "Soldier Blue". It was about the Sand Creek Massacre. Be warned, it isn't for the faint of heart and it is 'R' rated for a reason.

If you have friends that start to recoil because you are Mormon after seeeing September Dawn, introduce them to this little gem, it is actually a little more accurate and doesn't hold anything back with the rapes, decapitations, and baby-killing, which did happen at the real Sand Creek Massacre.

To quote Jack, "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Funny thing about the MMM and the SCM, they always say that the MMM was the worst civilian massacre in the west. Indians don't count. Neither do the 5000 Mormons that died on the trail.

Since in some versions of the story the Indians were involved with MMM. Good point on the 5000 on the trail. Not to mention the Hans Mill Massacre.

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I think just for the sake of disrupting the movie, I'll go see it.

See it, i use lightly. I'll probobly go and start laughing uncontrollably at the parts where its extreme bias/exaggeration.

Or maybe bring a cell phone and have people call me every 5 minutes.

*schemes*

:P

That will teach them! <_<

How very mature of you. Aren't you proud to call yourself a adult, good mormon? If you don't want to see it, don't go. Grow up child.

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How very mature of you. Aren't you proud to call yourself a adult, good mormon? If you don't want to see it, don't go. Grow up child.

Knock off the name calling. According to your posting history perhaps you can use your own advice. While you are at it start adding some substance to your posts instead of mindless dribble. For the record yes Gillebre is a minor.

Momus

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I have not seen this movie and will not ever see it due to its R rating[...]

Given the heathen jack-Mormon that I tend to be, I might see it. My only hope is that the individuals that see the movie realize that it isnâ??t a documentary, itâ??s entertainment (whether it is in good taste or notâ?¦ entertainment nonetheless). The movie â??300â? was not all that factual, and I hope people realize that. September Dawn probably wonâ??t be all that factual, and I hope people realize that as well. Sometimes religions are painted in negative light. I doubt Catholics thought the movie "Dogma" was an accurate portrayal of their overall theological beliefs. Sometimes historical figures are painted with the same negative light. Directors outside of the likes of NOVA, National Geographic, etc. aren't exactly in the business of movie-making for the dissemination of fact.

Iâ??m just holding my breath for Glenn Leonard, Richard Turley and Ron Walkerâ??s book â??Tragedy at Mountain Meadows.â?

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Given the heathen jack-Mormon that I tend to be, I might see it. My only hope is that the individuals that see the movie realize that it isnâ??t a documentary, itâ??s entertainment (whether it is in good taste or notâ?¦ entertainment nonetheless). The movie â??300â? was not all that factual, and I hope people realize that. September Dawn probably wonâ??t be all that factual, and I hope people realize that as well. Sometimes religions are painted in negative light. I doubt Catholics thought the movie "Dogma" was an accurate portrayal of their overall theological beliefs. Sometimes historical figures are painted with the same negative light. Directors outside of the likes of NOVA, National Geographic, etc. aren't exactly in the business of movie-making for the dissemination of fact.

Iâ??m just holding my breath for Glenn Leonard, Richard Turley and Ron Walkerâ??s book â??Tragedy at Mountain Meadows.â?

The 300 wasnt factual?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! :P

As far as "historical" films go...a fine effort will have to be made to match atrocities such as "Pearl Harbor" and "The Patriot"

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The 300 wasnt factual?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! <_<

I know, it's a shocker.

What might surprise people even more is that Dan Brown's books aren't completely factual either. :P

Such is the nature of the beast (the Chimera known as "the entertainment industry").

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My father was in the Battle of the Bulge in WWII. He was quite an afficianado of WWII movies featuring the BotB. He even had the "Battle of the Bulge" strategy board game.

In his opinion, they were pretty much all significantly off base, full of innacuracies, and failed to depict the realities of the situation. The sole exception was an old black and white film that featured a boring storyline full of wet snow, bleak landscapes and soldiers trying to keep warm. It's title escapes me, but I'm thinking you won't find it at blockbuster or netflix.

HSR's Truth about Reality #25 - don't go to the entertainment industry to learn what happened.

HSR

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bias:

an inclination of temperament or outlook

a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

Bias is in everything in the world, any idea, movie, book, play, whatever. Everyone has bias because of their point of view, how they were raised, and with what education they have (among others).

If Mormons made a movie, it would be biased towards themselves. If ex-mormons made a movie, it would also be biased towards their point of view.

No matter what you say or do, its very difficult to escape your own bias. In SOME way, this movie will be biased, as all movies are, depending upon the point of view of those in charge of writing/making it.

Just some food for the thinking you may do while being bored. :P

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You know it's biased or you assume it's going to be biased?

Go view the trailer. Go and read the reviews. Note that for historical accuracy they went to a Brigham Young desendant that is a born-again Christian. Or maybe since Mrs. Tanner is a supporter of it may have lead me to believe this is a biased work. Oh and Satan too. Ok I am kidding at this point. But a spokesman for the Church has already stated the Churches disaproval of the project due to its bias. Is that enough reason?

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"This is one of the most disgusting hit pieces I have ever seen ..."

Somehow I think that any non-LDS produced film about MMM (other than one that completely exonerated church leadership, perhaps) would have garnered a similar reaction from you. Absent seeing it - or reading the screenplay - you can't judge its portrayal.

MMM was a terrible and shameful event. We have to live with that. We can hope that people don't paint the whole church (especially the church of now, but also at the time) with the brush of extremism as a result - and hopefully we'll be successful to a large extent - but we can't effectively respond by simply being offended every time someone writes or makes a film about it.

Some of us have the added burden of having ancestors that were involved.

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I watched the trailer. Ridiculous. This is a movie with an agenda to poke Mormonism in the eye (more like kick it in the groin).

Here is a preview article from the Boston Herald:

Like the no-holds-barred pulp fictions that Rodriguez and Tarantino so admire, â??September Dawnâ? which stars Jon Voight, Terence Stamp and Lolita Davidovich, tackles century-old denials of the Mormon Church to say out loud without compunction or doubt that Brigham Young, the Church of the Latter Day Saintsâ?? leader and God on earth, ordered the massacre of 140 innocent wagon train settlers â?? children, women and men â?? as they were passing through Utah to California. (For the record: The ad says 120 died, the movie 137 and Cainâ??s quoted with the 140 number.)

The eerie date? September 11, 1857. And the movie, which brings director Christopher Cain out of retirement, makes the obvious connection to fundamentalist religious fanaticism that would see hordes massacred for no real reason with todayâ??s pervasive and violent manifestations from the Middle East to within our borders.

â??September Dawnâ? is not an exploitation film even if it shares with the exploitation â??70s movies a willingness to push buttons and shock. Its style, totally unlike â??Grindhouse,â? is old-fashioned romanticism as it shapes the tragedy by focusing on a forbidden Romeo and Juliet romance between virginal blonde settler Emily Hudson (newcomer Tamara Hope) and Jonathan Samuelson (model-turned-actor Trent Rord, a ringer for Kevin Zegers who costarred with Felicity Hoffman in â??Transamericaâ?), the elder son of Voightâ??s fearsomely Old Testament-style Mormon leader.

But quoting from transcripts of decades-later trial depositions, â??September Dawnâ? paints an incendiary portrait of a paranoid â??religionâ? that seems even nuttier than Scientology with its justification for â??blood atonementâ? as it considers all non-Mormons Gentiles (or heathens) and thus ripe for slaughter. Flashback show Mormonâ??s cutting off a manâ??s testicles and nailing them to a cabin wall as justified punishment, as well as cutting the throats as if they were sheep of any who disobey.

The R-rated filmâ??s epitaph confirms that only one man was held responsible for what became known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre: Brigham Youngâ??s adopted son John D. Lee (the properly anguished looking Jon Gries, best known as Uncle Rico in â??Napoleon Dynamite). Lee went to the firing squad in 1877 protesting that he, like the soldiers held accountable at Abu Ghraib, was merely the fall guy.

With this kind of premise and indignant denials from Mormon Church reps, itâ??s no surprise that â??September Dawnâ? is being released independently â?? by Black Diamond Pictures. Cain, whose credits include â??Young Guns,â? â??The Stone Boyâ? and â??Where the River Runs Black,â? was enticed to work again by Carole Whang Schutter, who co-wrote the screenplay with him; heâ??s said that Brigham Youngâ??s great-granddaughter, who quit the church to become a born-again Christian, was helpful.

Cain, now 62, views his film as a consideration of what makes a murderous religious fanatic. He cast his son Dean Cain in a cameo as the assassinated Mormon founder Joseph Smith, Stamp as Brigham Young and Davidovich as a pioneer woman whom the Mormons consider an abomination because she wears pants and carries a gun.

Well at least the film maker doesn't have an agenda. :P

What a sad joke.

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"This is one of the most disgusting hit pieces I have ever seen ..."

Somehow I think that any non-LDS produced film about MMM (other than one that completely exonerated church leadership, perhaps) would have garnered a similar reaction from you. Absent seeing it - or reading the screenplay - you can't judge its portrayal.

MMM was a terrible and shameful event. We have to live with that. We can hope that people don't paint the whole church (especially the church of now, but also at the time) with the brush of extremism as a result - and hopefully we'll be successful to a large extent - but we can't effectively respond by simply being offended every time someone writes or makes a film about it.

Some of us have the added burden of having ancestors that were involved.

You are simply wrong. I can judge a book by its cover. For instance if I see the cover of Playboy I know what it is going to contain; and the same can be said of this work. See the trailer read the Wikipedia article, See the New York Times piece on it. Read the Church's response. By your logic to know that Playboy is pornographic I would need to see it for myself. No thanks. :P

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