Truth and Treason movie

[Kevin Christensen]

18 minutes ago, longview said:

Antifa claim to be anti-fascists but they behave in a very thuggish way just like the brown-shirts of the 1930's. ICE is upholding a long-standing law in removing criminal aliens but is subject to radical attacks despite that fact that the previous five presidents deported far more aliens than the current president is doing.

Notice how antifa assaults and BLM riotings almost exclusively occur in democrat controlled areas (the police are forced to soft-pedal or ignore excessive or criminal behavior or vandalism or burning down establishments). Yet the Legacy Media had the audacity to call it a "peaceful protest". When Charlie Kirk was murdered, there was NO rioting in conservative areas (in fact nowhere, only quiet peaceful prayers and vigils). That makes you and me fundamentally different!

These No Kings protests are merely tantrums by the LEFT to denounce the Trump administration. Conservatives and patriots are actually demonized for upholding the Constitution (especially for advocating original intent interpretations) and supporting traditional family values and morality. For this they are called fascists? Trump fully supports the separation of powers between the three branches of government. He is always cooperative in addressing court challenges.

You need to show the actual reference about the "presidential claim". Most people know that it was Pelosi that orchestrated the "counter-revolution" against the patriots. Remember Ray Epps, Officer Byrd, and the 250 undercover FBI agents and many others desperately trying to make it look like a "for-real" insurrection. NONE of the patriots were carrying guns on that day!

Antifa equals brown shirts?  Really?   

This does not remind me of the thuggish 30s Brownshirts I know about.

The media I watched reported on the 2020 BLM protests as mostly peaceful, not totally peaceful.  There is a difference.  A person can discuss Mountain Meadows as exceptional behavior or typical behavior.  But to claim typical, we need to show that sort of thing happening everywhere all the time.  It clearly doesn't.  Something terrible happened in 1857, but it was exceptional, not typical.  Not matter how many cameras are focused on a burning police car, and no matter how many channels show it burning how often, one car is still one car.  Exceptions ought to be discussed as exceptional, addressing what went wrong in a particular instance.  But establishing paradigms and controlling narratives via exceptions distorts vision and impedes understanding.

You want a reference to the recent Presidential claim about the January 6 2021 assault on the Capitol.   Okay.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-appears-forget-jan-6-144119251.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/president-2020-trump-gop-want-200551587.html

ICE is deporting people without due process.  Masked men grabbing people, including US citizens, without due process.  ICE is grabbing people's friends and neighbors, fathers and mothers, people who contribute economically and socially to communities. (Think about the economic and social and diplomatic impacts of the ICE raid on a Georgia Hyundai factory.)  ICE acts on Stephen Miller's Replacement Theory paranoia, not the ideals of the Statue of Liberty, nor the demands of Christianity, nor the founding story of this country as a nation of immigrants.

"He doth execute the judgment (mishpat) for the orphan and the widow, and he loves the stranger and wants him to be provided with food and clothing. Therefore, you must do the same: love the stranger — remember that you too were strangers [and were oppressed] in the land of Egypt" (Deuteronomy 10:18–19).  That is not a favorite scripture among Christian Nationalists.  Nor is this one:

"Whatsoever ye have done unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

I see no scriptural or Constitutional charge to deport the stranger on principle without delay or weighing whether anything bad might happen to them or whether they actually do have legal grounds for being here or whether any legal issues could be resolved without disrupting lives and communities.   

No riots after the Charlie Kirk murder.  True.  Think about why not.  His murder was not typical, but exceptional.  The BLM protests happened because yet another killing of a black man happened on camera, accompanied by an initial false report of what happened.  Not because something totally unprecedented happened.  But because something terrible happened yet again in a public, recorded way that millions of people witnessed and deeply felt.  Are you aware that from the end of Reconstruction in 1877 to the 1950s, there was at least one extra-judicial, usually very public, lynching of a black man every week somewhere in the U.S.?  And guess how often the perps were brought to account?  The BLM protests did not happen in response to a one-off, or even relatively unusual exception.  They happened because of how much had happened before and kept on happening again and again and again. One-off exceptions or occasional incidents, don't by their nature, set off long standing frustrations and long building anger.  Reasonable shock and dismay, yes. 

"Trump fully supports the separation of powers between the three branches of government?"  Trump throws public tantrums when the other branches don't give him what he wants.  He belittles, bullies, and where he can eventually fires and replaces people who resist on constitutional and legal grounds till he gets done what he wants done, even when that requires placing in a high position someone whose only notable qualification for a job is unquestioning fealty and public subservience to Trump. We all just saw his Truth Social post demanding that the Attorney General prosecute and jail Comey and others.  That evidence does not demonstrate his support for and respect of separation of powers.  He talks like he would happily replace the Department of Justice and all law with himself at the head of a lynch mob. 

But he has helped negotiate in Israel.  That counts.  Not the only thing to consider, not by a long stretch, but it counts.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Tooele, UT

[j.mason]

3 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Fascism defined.

Key characteristics of fascism include:
Dictatorial leadership: Power is concentrated in a single leader who is presented as infallible. (Only I can save you.)
Militarism and nationalism: It glorifies the military and prioritizes extreme, often exclusionary, nationalism.
Suppression of opposition: Any form of dissent is violently suppressed, and basic human rights are disregarded.
Belief in hierarchy: Fascism promotes a rigid social structure and the rule of elites, in opposition to democracy and liberalism.
Scapegoating and victimization: It identifies internal and external "enemies" to unify the populace and focuses on a narrative of national decline or humiliation.
Control of media: The government seeks to control mass media and promote myths and lies to control the narrative.
Intertwined religion and government: In fascist states, government and religion are often merged, and business interests are protected.
Glorification of violence: Violence is often glorified as a means of achieving national goals.

A good definition of fascism. I also like what Sinclair Lewis said (provenance of quote is not certain, but it is apropos nevertheless):

“When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

[JVW]

Whoever has been saying that Antifa can't be bad because their group name means something good... I think that's one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. If I ever start a terrorist cell with decentralized leadership remind me to call it Rainbow Pony Club so that if anyone ever tries to catch me or call me out they can be calmed down because my name is kind. For all I know, during the Book of Mormon times the Gadianton Robbers had a great name because Gadianton was a man of high repute in Nephite history, so how could they have ever been a conspiracy or evil?

As far as whether or not Antifa, as an organization, exists Andy Ngo would like to have a word.

The KATU livestream has a few potential issues, but nothing insurmountable. They announced it would be happening well in advance, and that it would only be for 24 hours, so protestors could (potentially) choose how they want to present during the limited timeframe. What can balance and offset this narrow 24 hour window of time is watching footage from others who have recorded footage during the event. One who immediately comes to mind is Nick Shirley (but I'm sure there are others) who has spent a lot of time at the Portland ICE protests and has been threatened, bullied, and harassed just for being present with a camera on.

I'd like to point out that I'm not writing this in defense of the "right" side of the aisle. I don't care if antifa is "right" or "left", I don't care if the people who have documented them or documented the protests are "right" or "left". I don't care if someone views both of the nice sounding named American political parties as good or bad.

Now, to relate to this thread, I've been around the internet absorbing opinions and propaganda and I've read a lot of comments sections. I've spent a lot of time on mainstream sites, alternative sites, independent sites, extreme sites, blogs, conspiracy sites, and even a few sites that when I visited them I felt like my name was put on a list at the FBI. I've seen a lot of varying perspectives, and I've noticed something really strange. No matter how extreme or moderate someone is on either side: far-left, far-right, communist, capitalist, etc. Everyone seems to agree on one thing, that they don't like Israel. Since Charlie Kirk died I think the "right" side of disliking Israel has started to become more mainstream, whereas it used to be more whispered around the internet. While the "left" side has had a mainstream disdain of Israel for years as protestors have defaced art or glued their hands to stuff to stand with Palestine. The right side comes at it more from the conspiracy angle and wanting to be isolationist, they don't like how Jews own all the media, entertainment, banks, etc. The left side comes at it more from the genocide angle and disagreeing with where the government allocates funds in the Middle East. But they all share that same common enemy. So whether you are attending this Truth and Treason movie with lefties or righties, know that all of them will hate Nazis while simultaneously hating the Jews. (The ones who sympathize with Nazis don't attend movie theaters because they don't know how to have fun in life. ..... that's a joke, by the way.)

I have never heard of the left sympathize with Hitler, and I have seen that in fringes on the right. I have never heard of the right sympathize with Mao or Stalin, and I have seen that in fringes on the left. So I call it even in my mind. Each side has fringe people who sympathize with men who were responsible for the deaths of millions. Don't let that stop you from enjoying a good movie, which this sounds like it may be shaping up to be.

[Calm]

8 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

the trailer, the bishop is wearing red (0:16 of the video). Was that common thing back then?

Definitely not in the US.  There were one or two isolated by war branches that added more ceremony to our basic ritual such as dressing up the sacrament table.  It was removed as soon as contact was reestablished.  I have not heard of wearing red clothing as part of the additions, but it’s in the realm of possibilities.

Added:  I vaguely remember hearing eons ago as a teen that leaders in one of these isolated cases wore vestment type clothing, but that could be a false memory.  I don’t think if it is a true memory details were provided.  I remember candlesticks and rich clothes on the sacrament table and an extended ritual.  I will see if I can find any details later if someone with more knowledge doesn’t speak up first. 

 I haven’t heard of this in relation to Helmuth’s branch, but not something I have dug into as this story and pretty much any detailed history from that time period makes me cry every time.  I read up on the Third Reich as a young teen because we had the book the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which was a massive paperback back in the day they were still typically able to fit in a back or coat pocket.  If there was a book in the house I read it.  We had Exodus by Uris and a couple of other books on Israel’s beginnings as well.  My admiration for Helmuth is massive, but I also obsess about those who were put in danger by his actions without having been given a choice by him, such as the children of his branch and other LDS.

Looking at recently explored Nazi archives, it does look likely that it was only a matter of time before LDS were targeted anyway.  They didn’t like our doctrine.  Jasmin has a summary of this:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/756056827478834

More detail here:  

 

You got me curious, so took a screenshot.

Edited October 15, 2025 by Calm

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, longview said:

 

Nothing about Antifa’s supposed objective.

Also the chalkboard is a bunch of evidenceless imaginary hookum. If they could tie these supposed Antifa activists to anything concrete they would. If they could actually trace these supposed funding sources they would. They can’t. It is all conspiracy theory nonsense.

Anyone could claim to be Antifa. There are no funding sources. There is no rash of far-left violence being perpetuated by the supposed network of Antifa agents.

There is as much truth to this as there is in the old Protocols of the Elders of Zion nonsense.

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Wow, I'm reading through the comments section for the YouTube trailer and there are so many people who are saying this is pro-Israel propaganda. Not one mention of the LDS church.

And there are a lot of pro-Nazi comments, like the Axis was great, Nazi German was wonderful, etc.

@The Nehor, get in those comments and start punching people  

Losers celebrating losers. The Nazi regime lasted 12 years and was so bad at leading that the entire regime was completely deposed. They were bad at economics, bad at governing, and horribly bad at war.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, longview said:

Antifa claim to be anti-fascists but they behave in a very thuggish way just like the brown-shirts of the 1930's. ICE is upholding a long-standing law in removing criminal aliens but is subject to radical attacks despite that fact that the previous five presidents deported far more aliens than the current president is doing.

Really, Antifa is busting up polling sites and intimidating voters? How many Trump rallies has Antifa trashed and shut down? That was what the SA’s most common functions were. Instead we have a few fascists getting a good punching that had nothing to do with an election.. That is about it and even that doesn’t happen much anymore.

Don’t compare things to the SA unless you actually have a grasp of what the SA did. It is irresponsible.

5 hours ago, longview said:

Notice how antifa assaults and BLM riotings almost exclusively occur in democrat controlled areas (the police are forced to soft-pedal or ignore excessive or criminal behavior or vandalism or burning down establishments). Yet the Legacy Media had the audacity to call it a "peaceful protest". When Charlie Kirk was murdered, there was NO rioting in conservative areas (in fact nowhere, only quiet peaceful prayers and vigils). That makes you and me fundamentally different!

Peaceful prayers and protests. And attempting to cancel people who said mean things about Charlie Kirk. And government officials threatening to violate the First Amendment and use government power to punish people who said mean things about Charlie Kirk. Some were suggesting that people who said mean things about him should lose their passport or be denied driver’s licenses and the like. So just ripping up the Constitution for funsies. That is far scarier than a bunch of protests. Or even the imaginary riots the non-legacy media made up to scare people like you.

5 hours ago, longview said:

These No Kings protests are merely tantrums by the LEFT to denounce the Trump administration. Conservatives and patriots are actually demonized for upholding the Constitution (especially for advocating original intent interpretations) and supporting traditional family values and morality. For this they are called fascists? Trump fully supports the separation of powers between the three branches of government. He is always cooperative in addressing court challenges.

Trump does not support the separation of powers. He attempts to boot out any who oppose him. He threatens to investigate and jail political opponents. He ruins the careers of Republicans who don’t follow his whims. Not the party’s ideology, him personally. He is anti-Constitution.

5 hours ago, longview said:

You need to show the actual reference about the "presidential claim". Most people know that it was Pelosi that orchestrated the "counter-revolution" against the patriots. Remember Ray Epps, Officer Byrd, and the 250 undercover FBI agents and many others desperately trying to make it look like a "for-real" insurrection. NONE of the patriots were carrying guns on that day!

This is conspiracy nonsense. I was on the internet right before January 6th. I saw the planning. It was not orchestrated by the imaginary deep state. It was maniacs frothing at the mouth over losing an election. I expected it to happen. So did the President. That is why he wouldn’t tell the insurrectionists to leave until it was clear they had failed. Until then he was stirring it up with his speech and giving permission to act. Then he watched it on television. He was reported to be gleeful. The one bit of disapproval he reportedly conveyed was disappointment about how “low class” the whole thing was.

On the day when I heard the speech I knew it was going to go badly. It did. There was no need for the imagined undercover FBI agents to stir it up. Also it would be basically impossible to orchestrate such an operation. 250 undercover FBI agents and not one of them spoke out about how they were being used as political operatives. Not one was conservative? The conspiracy wouldn’t work. It is just a big and audacious lie.

[Calm]

7 hours ago, longview said:

NONE of the patriots were carrying guns on that day!

Serious question…who do you believe these people below were then?  Or do you think they were framed with false documentation, planted guns, or something?

Guy Reffitt, Christopher Alberts, Lonnie Coffman, Mark Mazza, Mario Mares, Jerod Thomas Bargar, and John Banuelo.

I can post links to articles documenting they were carrying if you need them.  While AI found the names when I asked if “any protestor was armed on Jan 6”, I checked each one to be sure it was a solid claim.  Almost all were convicted of carrying firearms, one was charged with something else, but was carrying iirc.

I am sincerely interested in hearing the possibilities as I would like to understand the reasoning on why we should doubt the documentation and convictions in some way.  To me this isn’t a political issue, it’s about how educated and informed people end up believing different things, sometimes very different.  Sometimes it’s very understandable to me, I can follow what I see as reasonable thought processes on all sides as a lot of times it’s about what one judges as most important to pay attention to (often personal experience vs statistical analysis, sometimes I fall on the side of experience, mostly I weight stats as heavier).  Sometimes not so understandable and it helps when people explain how they came to a conclusion.  I assume you speak up about these details because you want to inform people given how your writing style over the years or I wouldn’t be asking.

Edited October 16, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

6 hours ago, JVW said:

Don't let that stop you from enjoying a good movie, which this sounds like it may be shaping up to be.

I have heard one person, a tough critic of critics :),  who went to the screening say it was a good movie and overall portrayed the Church well (not saying the movie was made by critics, just that this person tends to pay close attention to such things).

Edited October 16, 2025 by Calm