John 1:1 and the Joseph Smith Translation

[GoCeltics]

“In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God” (JST)

Comparing this with the KJV:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

Is the phrase “the Son was of God” intended to mean something different than Jesus is God? Was Joseph Smith trying to clarify what he thought was a mistranslation or a translation that was lacking?

[InCognitus]

2 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

Is the phrase “the Son was of God” intended to mean something different than Jesus is God?

If that was Joseph Smith's intent, he certainly didn't do a good job of obscuring the idea that Jesus is God all through the other revelations.

The Title Page of the Book of Mormon states that one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon is "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD, manifesting himself unto all nations"

2 Nephi 26:12;  "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;"

Mosiah 5:15: "Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen."

Mosiah 7:27:  "And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth--"

Mosiah 27:31: "Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him. Yea, even at the last day, when all men shall stand to be judged of him, then shall they confess that he is God; then shall they confess, who live without God in the world, that the judgment of an everlasting punishment is just upon them; and they shall quake, and tremble, and shrink beneath the glance of his all-searching eye."

3 Nephi 11:14: "Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world."

D&C 18:33:  "And I, Jesus Christ, your Lord and your God, have spoken it."

D&C 35:1-2: "Listen to the voice of the Lord your God...I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world...",

D&C 38:1-3: "Thus saith the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ, the Great I AM, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end..."

And there are many other references, such as 1 Nephi 19:7-10, 2 Nephi 10:3-4, and 3 Nephi 11:14.

[Pyreaux]

On 8/20/2025 at 8:35 AM, GoCeltics said:

“In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God” (JST)

Comparing this with the KJV:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

Is the phrase “the Son was of God” intended to mean something different than Jesus is God? Was Joseph Smith trying to clarify what he thought was a mistranslation or a translation that was lacking?

These are "clarifications" he's inserting based on what is doctrinally true to him, but not necessarily a "mistranslation" at all. Reminds me a little of Joseph's edit to the Book of Mormon, "mother of God" to the "mother of the Son of God" wasn't really a mistranslation, rather we presume it sounded very Catholic, and he made a clarifying distinction that was important to Joseph. Similar to why he needed to clarify John 1, it was and is one of the most misunderstood verses. It might be instructive to discuss the Logos.

Greek-speaking Jews and the Logos

Philo (c. 20 BCE – 50 CE) was a Greek-speaking Jewish scholar in Alexandria who was from a High Priestly family, and representative of Hellenized Judaism at the time of Christ.

He often used λόγος (Logos) as the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew דבר (Dabar) = "Word," especially from "the Word of God."

Genesis 1: God created by His Speech "And God said…".

Psalm 33:6: "By the word of the LORD the heavens were made."

The Jewish idea is that God’s Speech or Word was a being, an agent of God through which God created the world and through which God interacts with the world.

To Philo, the Logos was the agent of creation (“through the Logos God created the world”), a kind of “second god” (deuteros theos in Quaestiones in Genesis II.62). The mediator between the transcendent God and the material cosmos. Our heavenly High Priest, interceding for humanity (On Dreams 2.173). Who spoke to prophets "In the place of God, as though there were another” (On the Confusion of Tongues 146).

Philo is a monotheist, he avoids calling the Logos "God" in the full sense, but to say it is divine, preexistent, and active, much like what John 1 later says. Philo does not mean there are two equal gods. For him, a "god" here means a divine agent, not God Most High. He is comfortable using "god" for the Logos in a lesser sense.

New Testament Usage of Theos

There are several examples where theos or "god" is applied to beings who are clearly not part of the Godhead. Even in John, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods [θεοί]'?" (John 10:34–35)

"The Logos was with God" = a distinction.

"The Logos was God" (θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος) = sharing in God’s divine nature.

For "indeed there are many 'gods'" (1 Corinthians 8:5) Paul acknowledges the term "god" can be applied to many beings, though there is only one God in the ultimate sense, the Father.

What John Is Actually Saying

We know the Logos wasn’t a blank-slate word in the 1st century. I don't think John is inventing any new Logos doctrine; he’s only identifying Jesus with it. That’s why John doesn’t have to stop to explain what the Logos is; he just says it and asserts the well-known properties of the Logos, and his readers would already know there was already a "god" who is not the Father category for this being.

To say the Logos was with the Father and somehow was God the Father would be a radically new idea and paradoxical. John is not saying, nor would he be understood as saying the Logos is the Father. The Logos is already a well-known distinct "god". All John is saying is the Logos is a divine, yet distinct, pre-existent Jesus.

Only much later Trinitarian theology leans heavily on John to prove "Jesus is fully God." But John is in no way altering the established beliefs by calling the Logos a god. John assumes you know the Jewish Logos that is "divine-but-not-God", he merely asserts the Logos you know from your Greek Jewish theology is real and is now Jesus of Nazareth, the Son. Joseph Smith is correct to dispel this historic error, the Logos was divine, but not the Father, it is the Son.

Edited August 21, 2025 by Pyreaux

[CV75]

4 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

“In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God” (JST)

Comparing this with the KJV:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

Is the phrase “the Son was of God” intended to mean something different than Jesus is God? Was Joseph Smith trying to clarify what he thought was a mistranslation or a translation that was lacking?

While I can't say which or both aims Joseph Smith had, his translation seems to be a more concise way of saying what Jesus said in John 17: “Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.” (verse 7) And in verses 24 - 26, “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

John 1:14, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” And John 5:30, “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

In many other scriptures and contexts we see that Jesus is also God.